R.I.P. Spyder 2683 up in flames

[Firefly]

Sure sorry to hear about your loss-- but glad you were not hurt....

I'd be really interested to know if they re-routed that canister evap hose.... perhaps you can take some up close photos of the righthand side and post them out here---- we might be able to tell by looking at them.

We have not yet confirmed a fire happening to a Spyder that had the vent line re-routed or the Canisterectomy done.

I hate that canister.

[Bersquack]

Man, I hope you are ok!

[DragonSpyder]

I am betting on a loose fuel line. Mine was leaking before I changed out the clamps. Maybe the evap cannister but less likely.

[Firefly]

I am betting on a loose fuel line. Mine was leaking before I changed out the clamps. Maybe the evap cannister but less likely.

But what is the ignition source is the big question!

A hot pipe isn't going to ignite gas.... gotta have a spark or flame.

[grumpybob]

Glad you are okay! What a mess. Hope everything ends well for you.

[NancysToy]

But what is the ignition source is the big question!

A hot pipe isn't going to ignite gas.... gotta have a spark or flame.

I disagree! Normal exhaust gas temperatures range from about 1,000-1,300 degrees. That puts the pipes themselves at 600 degrees or more. The autoignition temperature of gasoline is 495 degrees. Pipes can, and have ignited gasoline. I worked at the race track for many years, including on the safety crew, and leaking gasoline will go up in a heartbeat when it touches hot header pipes. I have seen it many times, in the flesh. Leaking gasoline and hot pipes do not play well together!

[Director]

Right side...

And looking at the photos, it sure appears the point of origin was the right side. The burn pattern extends from the right and the damage is worse on the right side than on the left.

I'm glad you are physically okay anyway, Leo.

Best regards,

Bruce

[biker1]

Damn, what a charcoal mess. Hope you are okay. What the hell happened to cause that to happen. I have seen a couple of posts with bikes on flames but this is not good. Even after the insurance paying out, your premium will go up, and all that crap to deal with as well.
Wishing you all the best.

[Firefly]

I disagree! Normal exhaust gas temperatures range from about 1,000-1,300 degrees. That puts the pipes themselves at 600 degrees or more. The autoignition temperature of gasoline is 495 degrees. Pipes can, and have ignited gasoline. I worked at the race track for many years, including on the safety crew, and leaking gasoline will go up in a heartbeat when it touches hot header pipes. I have seen it many times, in the flesh. Leaking gasoline and hot pipes do not play well together!

This article differs on this issue:
http://www.shadowaero750.com/files/fires.pdf

While certainly not a good idea, I've spilled gas on hot pipes and never had a fire. You can spill gas while filling up the Spyder and get it on the pipe below... but I've never heard of a fire from that. Seems this was considered a possibility on the Honda Shadow 750 bikes--- but was dispelled.

Anyone take a reading off the hot pipes with one of those guns?

[BajaRon]

I disagree! Normal exhaust gas temperatures range from about 1,000-1,300 degrees. That puts the pipes themselves at 600 degrees or more. The autoignition temperature of gasoline is 495 degrees. Pipes can, and have ignited gasoline. I worked at the race track for many years, including on the safety crew, and leaking gasoline will go up in a heartbeat when it touches hot header pipes. I have seen it many times, in the flesh. Leaking gasoline and hot pipes do not play well together!

After 33 years in the fire service I can say for sure that hot exhaust can ignite gasoline. Once vaporized it isn't all that hard to get ignition.

If you're smelling gasoline on a regular basis it's a good idea to check it out before it finds an ignition source.

[NancysToy]

This article differs on this issue:
http://www.shadowaero750.com/files/fires.pdf

While certainly not a good idea, I've spilled gas on hot pipes and never had a fire. You can spill gas while filling up the Spyder and get it on the pipe below... but I've never heard of a fire from that. Seems this was considered a possibility on the Honda Shadow 750 bikes--- but was dispelled.

Anyone take a reading off the hot pipes with one of those guns?

Interesting article, but strictly that man's opinion...with some interesting suppositions and fudging of the scientific facts and the physics involved. Anytime an article has works like "I think" and "In my opinion", one has to be skeptical. I have no proof, other than first hand experience...and nobody's butt was sliding across the seat and making static. My opinions are worth no more than anybody else's, however. There are also a number of Internet articles that make a case for the opposite theory from the one you cited. What is needed here is real proof and published scentific facts. In the absence of that, we are all guessing...and I prefer to make my guesses on the side of caution. Even a hot air-cooled head will ignite gasoline. You can look at the char marks on one of my old Hondas if you want proof.

[BajaRon]

This article differs on this issue:
http://www.shadowaero750.com/files/fires.pdf

While certainly not a good idea, I've spilled gas on hot pipes and never had a fire. You can spill gas while filling up the Spyder and get it on the pipe below... but I've never heard of a fire from that. Seems this was considered a possibility on the Honda Shadow 750 bikes--- but was dispelled.

Anyone take a reading off the hot pipes with one of those guns?

Nice article and it has it's points. But it fails to take a few conditions into account.

1- The article is talking about a "Dead" or non running engine. Extreme exhaust temperatures plummet as soon as you shut the engine off. However, in all the fire cases that I am aware of the Spyder was running when the fire started.

2- The article assums, correctly, that a non-running engine exhaust will cool very quickly as it vaporizes the fuel. Well below the required ignition temperature. Again, this is not the case with a running engine, as in this Spyder fire. Vaporizing the fuel will only cool the exhaust slightly, at best, and only for an instant.

3- The article assumes an open engine compartment where the vaporized fuel can easily disperse, never reaching the needed fuel density for ignition. This is not the case in the enclosed engine compartment of our Spyder.

4- No one has mentioned a backfire in this case. But this is also a possibility with a running engine which this article does not take into consideration.

5- And with a running engine you always have the possibility of an electrical ignition source, spark plug wire or wire to plug connection, relays, just to name a few.

So while I would agree that, under the conditions prescribed in this article, there probably is not a great ignition hazzard. This article does not apply to what is going on here.

[YPILOT]

That is a terrible event and I hope you didn't injure yourself on the dismount. Looks like the only thing left undamaged is the tag on the rear.
As disappointed as you probably are I hope you are able to regain the feeling you had when you first got your Spyder. Good Luck, Dennis

[wvsquirrel]

Glad you are ok.

[Firefly]

Good points---I just wanted to make sure people realize that hot pipe + gas does not always (or even often) = fire.

I believe there's an electrical component to these fires-- and that the stupid canister has available fumes just waiting to ignite... then they quickly get fed by the tank line.... but that is all just supposition.........

I'd be curious to know what the real-world pipe readings are on the Spyder.

[tweeder]

But what is the ignition source is the big question!

A hot pipe isn't going to ignite gas.... gotta have a spark or flame.

I remember hearing a few times that people have has arcing from there spark plug boot....that could be an ignition source.

[spyryder]

Failure prone right side exhaust gasket which happens to be directly below the canister. Even with the machine burned to the ground, that gasket should still be intact for inspection.

[SilverSurfer]

First and foremost, my heartfelt sympathy to leoejr. I am so glad he's okay, and believe that ultimately his bike will be replaced; hopefully with another Spyder.

For the rest of us, please note LAMONSTER's previous post in this thread; especially its calm, pragmatic tone. Reading this thread, I couldn't help to muse to myself on which spread faster ... the fire on leoejr's Spyder, or the firestorm of negative sentiment on BRP's customer service; including discovering how many pyro-forensics experts we have on the forum.

This is a single-incident matter involving leoejr's bike, a Spyder RS that apparently had a very unfortunate problem. Yet, the problem has never been shown indemic to Spyders, RS or RT. Spyders are in their third year of production. On ANY motorcycle, or even car for that matter, when we detect an unusual strong odor of fuel, it's time to stop, turn off the motor, and get the vehicle towed/trailered to a qualified mechanic. I've seen Harleys and Hondas burn, for goodness sake. Freak incidents will occur with any vehicle.

All the buzz and speculation, I feel, does the Spyder community a disservice. Potential owners see this stuff and are immediately smacked in the face with an unqualified anti-sell. The insurance, BRP and leoejr will determine and feedback on the facts. Now is not the time for a whirlwind of speculation that does nothing more than foment alarm. Our role on this forum should be to send leojr our support, brotherly love, and best wishes to get his new Spyder and encouragement to get back out on the road with us.

[Firefly]

First and foremost, my heartfelt sympathy to leoejr. I am so glad he's okay, and believe that ultimately his bike will be replaced; hopefully with another Spyder.

For the rest of us, please note LAMONSTER's previous post in this thread; especially its calm, pragmatic tone. Reading this thread, I couldn't help to muse to myself on which spread faster ... the fire on leoejr's Spyder, or the firestorm of negative sentiment on BRP's customer service; including discovering how many pyro-forensics experts we have on the forum.

This is a single-incident matter involving leoejr's bike, a Spyder RS that apparently had a very unfortunate problem. Yet, the problem has never been shown indemic to Spyders, RS or RT. Spyders are in their third year of production. On ANY motorcycle, or even car for that matter, when we detect an unusual strong odor of fuel, it's time to stop, turn off the motor, and get the vehicle towed/trailered to a qualified mechanic. I've seen Harleys and Hondas burn, for goodness sake. Freak incidents will occur with any vehicle.

All the buzz and speculation, I feel, does the Spyder community a disservice. Potential owners see this stuff and are immediately smacked in the face with an unqualified anti-sell. The insurance, BRP and leoejr will determine and feedback on the facts. Now is not the time for a whirlwind of speculation that does nothing more than foment alarm. Our role on this forum should be to send leojr our support, brotherly love, and best wishes to get his new Spyder and encouragement to get back out on the road with us.

I agree with much of what you said--- but you were not around last summer when many Spyder fires were happening--- 6 of them I believe--- and all went up in very similar ways.

Do a search for Spyder Fires and you'll find plenty of heated(boo hiss boo) debate. It does seem there is something more than just happenstance going on--- and many believe the second update where they re-route the canister vent line may have been done to alleviate a fire hazard. Many of us did what we call a 'canisterectomy' to eliminate an area of concern.

I do not believe we have seen a confirmed fire to a Spyder that had the 'second' update done.

Also, considering the relative low number of Spyders sold compared to HD and Honda, the number of fires carries more weight.

Certainly condolences go out to Leo Jr. He's been unhappy with his Spyder for sometime now, and then this happens......

[dave01]

Not trying to make light of this but I have called in the experts to find out the cause. Stay tuned for an upcoming episode.

[SpyderWolf]

Wow, I am sorry about the loss of your Spyder but very glad to hear you are okay. Hopefully the insurance company will take good care of you now. Best of luck.

[mvengineer]

[QUOTE= I've seen Harleys and Hondas burn, for goodness sake. Freak incidents will occur with any vehicle.

Remember Columbia with all of NASA's engineering, exploded and burned due to fuel leak.

[Gimpy Girl]

Wow! Sure your shook up quite a bit. Wheels can be replaced, but glad that your alright.

[Boriken]

Sorry to hear about your misfortune, glad that you are OK. Please keep us informed.

Carmelo

[BajaRon]

Not trying to make light of this but I have called in the experts to find out the cause. Stay tuned for an upcoming episode.

Hey! Is that a lighter in his hand?