Advice and suggestions for curves and Twisties?

[asp125]

Take a ride up to Skyline Drive. It is only 35mph, but, plenty of gentle curves to practice on. For further excitement, just run up and down RT 211 on either side of the Drive a few times. 35mph on the east side, but 45mph on the west side and plenty of tight turns. Plus, the scenery ain't too bad either........

+1 Skyline is a good road. We were there in 2014. Should be great now with fall colors. Only 35mph you say? I think I hit those a weeee bit faster.

[canamjhb]

A lot of very good input and experience here. The only thing I would add is to follow your nose. That is, point your head and nose into the curve and stick your nose out and follow it. Keeping your inside knee tucked hard against the bike and the outside foot firmly planted helps too. Having been a 2 wheel transplant, I still have to think what to do in corners when first getting into twisties. But after a bit I get into a "groove" and it becomes fun... I don't know if the Spyder riding technique will ever become as natural for me as the 2 wheel. But it does get a little easier each time.

[Poseidon]

+1 Skyline is a good road. We were there in 2014. Should be great now with fall colors. Only 35mph you say? I think I hit those a weeee bit faster.

Trust me, you could take them a lot faster. It is pretty tame as far as mountain roads go. Problem is that the actual speed limit on Skyline Dr is only 35 mph the entire length of it. It is pretty heavily patrolled too.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Another thing I didn't quite grasp was looking where I want the Spyder to go. Obviously, I don't look down right in front of the Spyder and I scan and look forward. However, what do you mean by looking at where you want to go? Do you keep your eyes on a fixed point at the end of the curve, or what? It just doesn't feel natural. I tried to explain it to the instructors, but I guess I didn't explain it well, or I just didn't understand the process of looking through the curve.

That is a continuing challenge for me. I tend to look at the road just in front of me, and has caused me a few less than great riding moments. One thing I do once in awhile is pretend there is a rabbit running 100 to 200 or so feet in front of me in the area of the lane I need to be riding in. I keep my eye on the rabbit and that's where I go! That helps me to keep looking at the road surface as it moves under the point of focus. It's easy to look at a spot in the road and keep one's gaze focused on it as you come closer and closer to it. When you do that your focus jumps from spot to spot rather than gliding along the road.

Another way to view the situation is what's called object fixation. If you focus on the side of a semi coming toward you you run a high risk of driving right into the side of the semi. I think I may have suffered that phenomenon once on my Goldwing. I was looking at the concrete barrier along the side of the road on a curve. I ran off the edge of the asphalt and threw gravel everywhere. Between my guardian angel and I we kept the bike upright. It also may have been a case of going into the corner too fast. I never was able to figure out exactly why I did it.

[bushrat]

‘How’ to do it is one thing… ‘why’ is completely another. Thrills? Adrenalin rush? A test of your skills? Finding your bike’s limits? Or simply finding out when you should have spare underwear handy?

Lots of excellent advice and input above on HOW to do it and survive. But, how many of us first ask WHY we need to do it and, further, are we truly up to it? And, most importantly, is our bike ready for it?

I do understand the ‘need for speed’, the sense of ‘accomplishment’ that comes from successful fast rides on roller-coaster-like roads. Adrenaline surges can be addictive. I grew up with sports cars, and did the practice routines night after night until I got pretty damned good; I could drive many roads well beyond posted limits. I later learned to do it somewhat on two-wheelers, as well. I look back now and shudder at how stupidly foolish a lot of it was. Often, I simply relied on my car or bike to be capable and ready, totally neglecting that the professionals I was trying to emulate have properly prepared, specially tuned machines, equipped for racing and stress; mine wasn’t. Those drivers had experience; I was learning by trial and error. I expected the familiar roads to be in the same condition, the same traffic load every time; they weren’t. And they weren't controlled race tracks or circuits. I left a lot of things to chance. Mostly, I got off lucky… extremely so in one or two instances. Are both you and your bike in proper shape? I hope so; and I also hope you will be as fortunate, and without problems.

Yes, fast riding can be exhilarating. And practicing to become a better rider has many benefits. How far do you need to push it? Why? Think about those answers before you try. You’ll be better prepared for the consequences, whatever they turn out to be. I’m not saying don’t do it. Just remember there are more things involved in riding the twisties well than simply looking through the curve and leaning to the inside. Road conditions change since the last time you were there and issues can spring up when least expected. Loose gravel; weather too. Fog patches, blown tires, mechanical issues, etc… Can you handle those while concentrating on the Apex? **** happens, and you’d better be prepared to deal with it if you are continually going to challenge yourself and your bike. Other family members also have to deal with the consequences of your decisions.

Two scenarios from my life: spare underwear lesson #1... the night I was doing my regular practice run in my MGB through local twisties. Thought I could handle that damn road pretty well. Decided to up my entry speed another couple of notches at a crucial corner. Downhill sharp right turn; down-shifting, brake-tapping, wheel-tugging all required in quick coordination. Didn’t hit it quite as well as I should have. Got into a long 4-wheel drift which took me diagonally across the oncoming lane. Fortunately, no traffic. I drifted far enough that I was chewing up gravel on the far shoulder, left rear wheel momentarily in mid-air. And, I was just far enough down the road that I was fast approaching three large elm trees on that shoulder, 2’-3’ in diameter. Hadn’t even thought about them. My side-slide corrected just before potential impact. I was lucky. I was also stupid for trying to be a rally racer when I was literally just (at that moment) a wet-assed kid.

I was a slow learner. Five years later, I absolutely totalled a Porsche 911 one night, doing twisties, though not really trying to push it. Just happened to be on an unfamiliar, curvy road with very inaccurate road signs. Also had been driving through a shallow valley when we came to a slight rise with a marked, checker-board warning showing “Danger” and a 90 degree left turn. At that very moment, we climbed into a hitherto unseen low-lying fog bank. Totally lost sight of the curve, the pavement; nothing but grey mist everywhere. And, the big tight curve turned out to be a far more gentle 20-30 degree sweeper. Front right tire hit the shoulder; I corrected sharply, anticipating 90 degree left turn. Felt the left front tire cross the oncoming shoulder. Corrected again, but we were by then in a broad, shallow ditch. Could have gone for miles without a problem, and likely come to a safe stop. But after about 40’, and still doing 50 mph, we hit a mound of dirt. Shouldn't have been there, but was. Result: Porsche did 3 somersaults. I wasn’t wearing my seat belt. Came out through the windshield head first, flew through the air barely conscious and landed in 8” of mud. Car followed along behind, hit a wood telephone pole about 10’ up and dropped to the ground, on its wheels, motor racing wide open, gas tank ruptured. Also right on top of me; only my head sticking out under passenger side rocker panel. I was completely pinned in the mud, unconscious at first, but slowly came around. I was alive only because the car did a half-turn in mid-air, before it dropped. After they lifted the Porsche off me and dragged me from the mud, I walked to the ambulance that took me to hospital and found I had a fractured skull. Lots of bruises, some pain. Kinda messed up for a few days. I lived, but have friends who question whether I have ever been ‘totally right’ since.

To say I was extremely lucky is a gross understatement. A small part of me still looks at twisties and says: “I wonder how fast….? But then, something else says: “you’ve spent a lifetime rushing around this world; maybe we should relax and enjoy the scenery a bit more deeply and slowly.” I like that second voice, today.

Me, the wife and our Spyder love the twisties, including noticing the leaves on the trees, the birds and chipmunks. We go a little slower now, and take it all in.

Apologies for the ramble.

[loisk]

Taking the twisties beautifully and smoothly has little to do with sheer speed - not my thing - but getting a bend "just right" at a reasonable clip is a great feeling - whether on two or three wheels.

[cmbspyderrss]

A ton of great suggestions above. For me, i take those, relax, slow down and just ryde. Nothing better than seat time. I am a visual learner and while the below is not meant to be a training video, you may pick up some things that work or don't work for you. You can occasionally see the MPH, RPM, my body English in the mirror etc.

[Bob Denman]

‘How’ to do it is one thing… ‘why’ is completely another. Thrills? Adrenalin rush? A test of your skills? Finding your bike’s limits? Or simply finding out when you should have spare underwear handy?

Lots of excellent advice and input above on HOW to do it and survive. But, how many of us first ask WHY we need to do it and, further, are we truly up to it? And, most importantly, is our bike ready for it?

I do understand the ‘need for speed’, the sense of ‘accomplishment’ that comes from successful fast rides on roller-coaster-like roads. Adrenaline surges can be addictive. I grew up with sports cars, and did the practice routines night after night until I got pretty damned good; I could drive many roads well beyond posted limits. I later learned to do it somewhat on two-wheelers, as well. I look back now and shudder at how stupidly foolish a lot of it was. Often, I simply relied on my car or bike to be capable and ready, totally neglecting that the professionals I was trying to emulate have properly prepared, specially tuned machines, equipped for racing and stress; mine wasn’t. Those drivers had experience; I was learning by trial and error. I expected the familiar roads to be in the same condition, the same traffic load every time; they weren’t. And they weren't controlled race tracks or circuits. I left a lot of things to chance. Mostly, I got off lucky… extremely so in one or two instances. Are both you and your bike in proper shape? I hope so; and I also hope you will be as fortunate, and without problems.

Yes, fast riding can be exhilarating. And practicing to become a better rider has many benefits. How far do you need to push it? Why? Think about those answers before you try. You’ll be better prepared for the consequences, whatever they turn out to be. I’m not saying don’t do it. Just remember there are more things involved in riding the twisties well than simply looking through the curve and leaning to the inside. Road conditions change since the last time you were there and issues can spring up when least expected. Loose gravel; weather too. Fog patches, blown tires, mechanical issues, etc… Can you handle those while concentrating on the Apex? **** happens, and you’d better be prepared to deal with it if you are continually going to challenge yourself and your bike. Other family members also have to deal with the consequences of your decisions.

Two scenarios from my life: spare underwear lesson #1... the night I was doing my regular practice run in my MGB through local twisties. Thought I could handle that damn road pretty well. Decided to up my entry speed another couple of notches at a crucial corner. Downhill sharp right turn; down-shifting, brake-tapping, wheel-tugging all required in quick coordination. Didn’t hit it quite as well as I should have. Got into a long 4-wheel drift which took me diagonally across the oncoming lane. Fortunately, no traffic. I drifted far enough that I was chewing up gravel on the far shoulder, left rear wheel momentarily in mid-air. And, I was just far enough down the road that I was fast approaching three large elm trees on that shoulder, 2’-3’ in diameter. Hadn’t even thought about them. My side-slide corrected just before potential impact. I was lucky. I was also stupid for trying to be a rally racer when I was literally just (at that moment) a wet-assed kid.

I was a slow learner. Five years later, I absolutely totalled a Porsche 911 one night, doing twisties, though not really trying to push it. Just happened to be on an unfamiliar, curvy road with very inaccurate road signs. Also had been driving through a shallow valley when we came to a slight rise with a marked, checker-board warning showing “Danger” and a 90 degree left turn. At that very moment, we climbed into a hitherto unseen low-lying fog bank. Totally lost sight of the curve, the pavement; nothing but grey mist everywhere. And, the big tight curve turned out to be a far more gentle 20-30 degree sweeper. Front right tire hit the shoulder; I corrected sharply, anticipating 90 degree left turn. Felt the left front tire cross the oncoming shoulder. Corrected again, but we were by then in a broad, shallow ditch. Could have gone for miles without a problem, and likely come to a safe stop. But after about 40’, and still doing 50 mph, we hit a mound of dirt. Shouldn't have been there, but was. Result: Porsche did 3 somersaults. I wasn’t wearing my seat belt. Came out through the windshield head first, flew through the air barely conscious and landed in 8” of mud. Car followed along behind, hit a wood telephone pole about 10’ up and dropped to the ground, on its wheels, motor racing wide open, gas tank ruptured. Also right on top of me; only my head sticking out under passenger side rocker panel. I was completely pinned in the mud, unconscious at first, but slowly came around. I was alive only because the car did a half-turn in mid-air, before it dropped. After they lifted the Porsche off me and dragged me from the mud, I walked to the ambulance that took me to hospital and found I had a fractured skull. Lots of bruises, some pain. Kinda messed up for a few days. I lived, but have friends who question whether I have ever been ‘totally right’ since.

To say I was extremely lucky is a gross understatement. A small part of me still looks at twisties and says: “I wonder how fast….? But then, something else says: “you’ve spent a lifetime rushing around this world; maybe we should relax and enjoy the scenery a bit more deeply and slowly.” I like that second voice, today.

Me, the wife and our Spyder love the twisties, including noticing the leaves on the trees, the birds and chipmunks. We go a little slower now, and take it all in.

Apologies for the ramble.

Thank you!!
If you use your skills to ride smoothly: you'll see a lot more of the scenery!

[foxtail1]

I think all of us have been there. I posted something similar at about the 200 mile point. (I turned over 1,000 miles on the way to work this morning.) Somewhere around the 500-600 mile point, suddenly the curves were fun again (coming from a 2 wheeler history).

Of the much excellent advice here, what helped me the most was realizing that even though the bike doesn't lean, I still should. I get low, lean my upper body into the turn, and push with the outside leg. Of course, the road quality has a lot to do with this. A well banked curve doesn't make me feel like I'm about to fly off.

The other thing is about where to look— look through the curve. It sounds strange, but the bike really does just follow where you're looking. And, to have fun, once you're at the midway point or slightly beyond, add some gas and power through.

[HankD]

I have found that yelling "Woo Hooo!!" inside my full-face helmet helps me thru the twisties.

[OlJim]

An old sprint car driver told me once to "Run it in so hard and deep that you think it would take God to make the corner and then stand on the gas." Good luck.

[Easy Rider]

I need to slow down a bit and gain more experience first.

Riding groups that REALLY care about riders that are new or with a drastically different new ride will put them at the FRONT of the pack and allow extra following distance and let them set the pace.

Riders who sprint away from their less experienced group members are NOT being good riding partners.

[Easy Rider]

An old sprint car driver told me once to "Run it in so hard and deep that you think it would take God to make the corner and then stand on the gas." Good luck.

That works on dirt. Not so much on pavement.

[INfox]

Riding groups that REALLY care about riders that are new or with a drastically different new ride will put them at the FRONT of the pack and allow extra following distance and let them set the pace.

Riders who sprint away from their less experienced group members are NOT being good riding partners.

I agree and I am in the front part of our group which does not cut the curves as fast as my son does (Goldwings vs a crotch rocket bikes). I am not new to bikes, just to Spyders.

Young people are not as wise as the older ones plus they have very little fear. Luckily I don’t do many rides with him, although he selects nicely paved twisties and cuvies (which of course don’t eliminate unexpected “ road features” of the day).

[ARNIE R]

Trust me, you could take them a lot faster. It is pretty tame as far as mountain roads go. Problem is that the actual speed limit on Skyline Dr is only 35 mph the entire length of it. It is pretty heavily patrolled too.

Yes, everytime I go up there, I see at least 2 radar units just in the upper third of the Drive.

[Peteoz]

Riding groups that REALLY care about riders that are new or with a drastically different new ride will put them at the FRONT of the pack and allow extra following distance and let them set the pace.

Riders who sprint away from their less experienced group members are NOT being good riding partners.

Just because riders at the front sprint away from less experienced riders definitely does not mean they are not good riding partners, Easy Rider. We pick a tail end Charlie (or Charlies) who don't care how long it takes to get "there", put the new rider(s) in front of them, and let the fast riders go at the front. That way everyone gets to ride at their own pace and has a good time, and there are never complaints at stops. It works an absolute treat for us. Mind you, we do INSIST that Ural riders start the ride several days before the rest of us

Pete

[Peter Aawen]

.... Mind you, we do INSIST that Ural riders start the ride several days before the rest of us.....

As you should!

[Wrongway]

Hi folks!
I've been enjoying the hell out of my F3-T. However, I am still pretty apprehensive to see what it can do on the curves and Twisties and take them rather slowly. I realize the "Nanny" mode would kick in to prevent a disaster and every circumstance is different but was hoping you could share your advice, suggestions, and experiences with the curves and Twisties.
Thanks!
SS

Reading your post is almost like I wrote it a month ago.
When we first got our RT about 6 weeks ago, the feeling of the cornering was so foreign to me after 50 years on 2 wheels.
After one ride my wife actually mentioned to me that it was very jerky through the sweeping curves. I did realize this but figured it was the nature of the beast.
I immediately went out on my own for a ride on a road with a lot of curves and finally the brain kicked in. I was looking at the front of the Spyder.
As soon as I started looking further ahead in the curves the same as I'd done for years on 2 wheels, all is smooth again.
I really felt stupid when I realized what was wrong and debated whether or not to embarass myself by even posting this but I suspect it's a common mistake.
Last friday I added the bajaron swaybar and links......OMG, I have a new Spyder. What a difference.
Anyway, enjoy your F3-T.

Greg

[Easy Rider]

Just because riders at the front sprint away from less experienced riders definitely does not mean they are not good riding partners, Easy Rider.

Sorry but we will just have to disagree on this......UNLESS the group is effectively split into two groups.

If that is not done, the "jack rabbit" behavior encourages those with lesser skills or experience to exceed their limitations........and is RUDE and potentially dangerous behavior. Showing off does NOT make a good riding partner.

[foxtail1]

Sorry but we will just have to disagree on this......UNLESS the group is effectively split into two groups.

If that is not done, the "jack rabbit" behavior encourages those with lesser skills or experience to exceed their limitations........and is RUDE and potentially dangerous behavior. Showing off does NOT make a good riding partner.

Agreed! On my first (and only) Harley group ride, as a new Harley rider, the group leaders led us on a merry chase, exceeding the speed limits from the start. Of course I tried to keep up. They even went way beyond the 45 mph speed limit on a stretch of the Blue Ridge Parkway. (Any wonder it was my only group ride?)

[Docster]

Sorry but we will just have to disagree on this......UNLESS the group is effectively split into two groups.

If that is not done, the "jack rabbit" behavior encourages those with lesser skills or experience to exceed their limitations........and is RUDE and potentially dangerous behavior. Showing off does NOT make a good riding partner.

Agree. Our club rides include a tailgunner but we always ride as a GROUP. For many reasons that's why it's called a GROUP ride.

[UtahPete]

Agree.Our club rides include a tailgunner but we always ride as a GROUP. For many reasons that's why it's called a GROUP ride.

It's not the only way to conduct a safe and sane group ryde, but those coming from a H.O.G. background seem to think otherwise.

In the twisties, in particular, trying to ride as a cohesive group is just begging for trouble.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

This discussion begs a response.

The MSF, GWRRA, and others have guidelines for group riding that are designed to ensure the group ride is first and foremost, SAFE. An unsafe ride is not fun, especially if someone crashes. First, a group needs to have a leader at the front and a tail gunner at the rear and have a means to communicate via radio. The group should be no more than 6 to 7 bikes. If the group is larger than about 13 or 14 it needs to be split into two smaller groups. The groups need to stay far enough apart to allow cars to pass and return to the lane in between the groups. The riders in a group need to stay close enough together to restrict cars from passing and inserting themselves between bikes. The riders should stay 1 to 2 seconds apart when in staggered formation and 2 to 3 seconds apart when in single file. Use staggered formation on the straight stretches and single file in the twisties. Staggered doesn't always work with trikes. The riders need to stay close enough so that hand signals from any one rider can be seen and repeated by the rider in front and particularly behind. The group should never try to ride faster than what the slowest rider is comfortable with. This may mean that there needs to be two or more separate groups each traveling at the speed they want with a clear understanding where they will all meet up periodically along the way and at the end.

There is a critical need for group riding training in the Spyder riders community. Group riding MUST NOT be a hap hazard gathering of bikes speeding along the highway. If you get into one get out as soon as you can and ride safely by yourself.

The ONLY exception to the above guidelines is an officially escorted ride where law enforcement provides traffic control.

[asp125]

We digress. On our group rides we never put beginners AT the front. 1. They don't know how to lead, 2. They don't know how to communicate hand signals, and 3. They aren't comfortable making the right decisions if they encounter hazards.

We usually put newbies in the middle "near" the front two or three advanced group leaders.

[UtahPete]

We digress. On our group rides we never put beginners AT the front. 1. They don't know how to lead, 2. They don't know how to communicate hand signals, and 3. They aren't comfortable making the right decisions if they encounter hazards. We usually put newbies in the middle "near" the front two or three advanced group leaders.

We're way off topic (riding the twisties); I've started a new thread re: group rides.