Aggressive riding in the curves question

[monkeyboymorton]

taking a bend a bit hot, quite safely, suddenly it was like an invisible hand had held up a stop sign and was slowing me down.

That's my main experience of the VSC kicking in, the invisible hand sums it up prefectly. Hard accelerations from 30mph+ with any steering angle on will cause a kind of 'pause' in the power delivery. I thought there was a flat spot in the power band until I realised it was the VSC stopping me lighting up the rear tire and getting oversteer. I'm more than happy for it to help out there and feel no need for the ability to turn it off as in the 2017 models.

As for the VSC activating the brakes in corners I've never really noticed that. I try and drive as smoothly as possible and not put sudden steering movements in that would spook the system.

The main thing I've noticed with the handling is how it will understeer horribly if you come off the power while cornering. Especially in off camber corners. The change in yaw you can achieve by just applying and removing power is surprising, and that's without any wheelspin.

I find it corners best with a mid throttle position and then open up the throttle as you're coming out of the turn. That's the most enjoyable way to ride it IMO.

[Bob Denman]

35 to 40 over the posted recommendation? REALLY? On an RT? I need to learn your set-up!

It involves a special blend of Red Bull and coffee, and then firing up the bike...

I See Noises.jpg

[blacklightning]

My set up is stock, except for car tires all around. No swaybar, no stiffeners, none of that extra stuff.
I love pushing my bike as hard as I can. Makes ya feel alive when ya do that. Believe me or don't believe me. I know what I can do. And surely to God I cant be the only one doing this.

That is what I don't understand. Everyone always talks about how much you need shocks, and the aftermarket swaybar, etc. I know for a fact that the 2014 and up RT is more than capable. And to date, I have not come across another spyder rider that has all these after market parts that can leave me. Now that I have my F3T, I am really looking for those aftermarket believers to see what they can do.
As for the last comment, I believe the little girl with the rabbit eared hat on Bob's Burgers said it best. "The best part of living is almost dying, it's called almost live dying."

[Bob Denman]

The 1330 RTs handle way better than the older bikes.
I would always suggest riding one for a while, before giving BajaRon a call...

[PrairieSpyder]

Speed limits? They have speed limits on curves?

[Bob Denman]

Speed limits? They have speed limits on curves?

I think that it's more of a "Law", than just a "Speed Limit"...

The Law of physics!

[jaherbst]

Clint Eastwood,
"A Man's gotta know his own Limitations".

I don't ever want to find my absolute limitation, by then it's too late!

Jack

[Bob Denman]

Clint Eastwood,
"A Man's gotta know his own Limitations".

[Bam Bam and Pebbles]

It involves a special blend of Red Bull and coffee, and then firing up the bike...

I See Noises.jpg

No redbull, no coffee. Just the great tasting delight of Mtn Dew.

[Bob Denman]

No redbull, no coffee. Just the great tasting delight of Mtn Dew.

I like "Doin' the Dew" too!

[ARtraveler]

Back in post #16 I posted what I believe is conservative information for safe riding of twisties. I went back and highlighted that +20 is doable but I am more comfortable with +10 on posted curves.

Keep safe out there and ride the ride that you are in control with. Exceeding that place can cause injuries to self as well as others. On one of our last MC group rides with the club, we watched a lady go over the center line many times on the Old Glenn Highway--full of tight twisties--we decided it was time to leave the group. We went to the back of the pack that night in order to stay out of trouble. Fortunately, there was none.

Lecture Button: OFF

[Bam Bam and Pebbles]

That is what I don't understand. Everyone always talks about how much you need shocks, and the aftermarket swaybar, etc. I know for a fact that the 2014 and up RT is more than capable. And to date, I have not come across another spyder rider that has all these after market parts that can leave me. Now that I have my F3T, I am really looking for those aftermarket believers to see what they can do.
As for the last comment, I believe the little girl with the rabbit eared hat on Bob's Burgers said it best. "The best part of living is almost dying, it's called almost live dying."

Unfortunately, most people die living. Life can be so routine. The everyday routine of work, eat, sleep, repeat. Thats why I love doing things to give myself a kick in the butt. Right now, my Spyder on a twisty road is my kick. And if I overcook a turn but make it out in one piece, it is a heck of a kick. But definitely not for everyone. Thats why I am looking forward to riding with you Keith. You on your F3T, which should be better for you, and me on my RT, with my better tires. Both of us pushing the limits.
Hope everyone just rides within their limits. Stay safe out there people. Peace

[Bam Bam and Pebbles]

Clint Eastwood,
"A Man's gotta know his own Limitations".

I don't ever want to find my absolute limitation, by then it's too late!

Jack

True dat. A man has got to know his limitations, but if I dont push it, how will I find what my limitations are? I gotta find that fine line and ride on the edge. Hopefully I know right before I am about to cross over so I can reign it back in.

[Bam Bam and Pebbles]

Back in post #16 I posted what I believe is conservative information for safe riding of twisties. I went back and highlighted that +20 is doable but I am more comfortable with +10 on posted curves.

Keep safe out there and ride the ride that you are in control with. Exceeding that place can cause injuries to self as well as others. On one of our last MC group rides with the club, we watched a lady go over the center line many times on the Old Glenn Highway--full of tight twisties--we decided it was time to leave the group. We went to the back of the pack that night in order to stay out of trouble. Fortunately, there was none.

Lecture Button: OFF

Aint a lecture, thats good common sense.

[BajaRon]

Maybe I don't quite understand a few things. Am I reading the posts correctly when you are basically saying you can hit a curve as fast as you want; there's no chance of going off the road because the nanny protects you in all instances? The second thing is what is a turn versus a curve. To me a turn is typically 90 degrees or less, what you normally find on city streets. So, when someone mentions double the posted speed in a turn, are you actually in a curve? If it's a curve, then I can understand hitting it at double the posted speed, depending on the curve, like a wide sweeper. I'm actually not trying to pick on anyone in particular, but when you are giving advice to someone who is new to the spyder, he/she may not know the type curve/turn you are talking about.

It is doubtful that the Nanny can save you from all situations. If you completely throw caution to the wind or deliberately try to exceed both yours and the Spyder's capabilities I'd say you would be able to overwhelm the Nanny. There has to be some level of interest in self preservation involved for the Nanny to function successfully in every situation.

What performance modifications do for the Spyder is increase traction at all 3 wheels. This helps to give the driver greater control in curves, when pushed around in strong cross winds or gusts, and when passing large trucks at freeway speeds. Suspension improvements also reduce lean and dive which helps maintain correct steering alignment. Alignment changes as the suspension flexes. The more movement you get in the suspension, the greater the change in alignment. Typically, a stock Spyder will need steering correction in the curve as the suspension loads and unloads. This causes an over-steer, under-steer oscillation. Ideally, as long as the parameters within a curve do not change, you should be able to enter the curve with a set steering angle and have no need to make any steering adjustments as you power through and out of the turn.

If a parameter within the curve does change, (angle, radius, camber, crown, etc.) these performance modifications will greatly lessen the effect to both the Spyder and the rider.

You do not have to be going over a reasonable speed in a curve to realize the benefits (though the effect of performance components will increase as you increase the relative speed).

I have had some customers tell me that (after riding with their suspension upgrades for some time) they don't think the sway bar and or spring adjusters are working as well as they did in the beginning. I always encourage them to ride a Spyder that does not have these components installed. While not all of them can do this. Some who have done this said they almost went into the ditch riding as they normally do on a friends Spyder. These are not my words. And these have always been unsolicited feedback. Now, when I tell someone to try an unmodified Spyder for comparison. I always warn them to take it easy at first.

When you get used to the handling benefits of a performance suspension, you can get the feeling that they have gone away. When in reality, it is just the driver getting used to the added capabilities and losing sight of how it used to be.

Is the Spyder unsafe stock? Absolutely not! I have never, nor will I ever say that because it is not true. Can the Spyder suspension and handling be improved significantly? I think the record shows that yes, it can. Some believe that you have to be an Evel Knievel to appreciate the improved handling. But this is not true. The great majority of my customers are not interested in being the fastest Spyder in the twisties. But they do appreciate what an improved suspension will do for every day riders.

Of course the debate will continue and I do not expect my ramblings to end it. But I do like to bring the debate back to an established foundation if I can.

And yes, I agree. A 'Turn' is something that you usually need to stop for before continuing through a 90 degree maneuver. A 'Curve' is something that occurs when the roadway changes direction at speed.

[Peteoz]

Yes, Ron......I bought the Bajaron stabiliser bar as I felt uncomfortable both cornering and riding on narrow cambered roads, at the speed limit. There was no way I would consider trying them at a speed faster than the advisory signs. The bar cured that feeling instantaneously for me, and meant that I had far more control and if I crept over the posted speed a "bit", I retained that feeling of confidence. It made riding the Spyder even more fun......and as for the Kuhmos, well

Pete

[IGETAROUND]

To the OP: might want to take your bike to a BIG parking lot and find out what your nanny feels like. Just a tad safer way to experience pushing the limits than on mountain roads. FWIW and double back what you paid for it!!

[kngfsh27]

I had Ron's sway bar and shock adjusters. Last year I went up into South Dakota. I knew that I had really pushed it on my '14 RTL when the morning after I got home both front tires were flat. After that, my wife was not comfortable with it . It was a great ride. Yes it was. I never had the nanny kick in.

[Navy Warrant]

My set up is stock, except for car tires all around. No swaybar, no stiffeners, none of that extra stuff. What I do use is my body. I am either leaning pretty good or hanging off the side of the bike. That and my desire to go as fast as I can using the best cornering techniques that I can. I dont use the nanny as a fail safe to save my butt. My goal is to not have her make an appearance. I usually meet that goal. And I am not advising new riders to try this. Ive been riding 2 1/2 years on a Spyder and I am still learning. As they say, dont try this at home folks. Do what you are comfortable doing, not what others say they do.

As far as the definition of turns is concerned, I aint riding city streets at 35 or 40 mph over the speed limit. Im talking country roads, but not wide sweepers. Anyone can ride a wide sweeper 30 or 35 over the limit. But when I am really feeling "it", I will pull a 35 or 40 mph turn at 40 over. 40 over seems to be my limit currently. I will have half my butt off the bike, leaning out as far as I can. I dont do it all the time but I am generally going 30 over. I have been called crazy by my friends for the way I sometimes ride, but I love pushing my bike as hard as I can. Makes ya feel alive when ya do that. Believe me or dont believe me. I know what I can do. And surely to God I cant be the only one doing this.

Funny thing is, when Pebbles is on board, I am happy doing 5 or 10 over the limit so she is comfortable. I just want to ride.

There are a lot of adrenaline junkies out there. My experience is that each level gets old pretty quick, and more adrenaline is desired so more limits get pushed until the line finally gets crossed. I hope you ryde safe for your sake and the sake of those who share those same roads. Would hate to read your obit here.

[Bam Bam and Pebbles]

There are a lot of adrenaline junkies out there. My experience is that each level gets old pretty quick, and more adrenaline is desired so more limits get pushed until the line finally gets crossed. I hope you ryde safe for your sake and the sake of those who share those same roads. Would hate to read your obit here.

Yes, I am an adrenaline junkie but I do not ride like this all the time. Cant do it when people are in front of me, and I don't do it when there is a lot of traffic on the other side of the road, cuz you never know what they are gonna do. I also don't do 40 over the speed limit on turns that I cant see around. If the road has been either cut into rock outcroppings, or built around them and block the view of the road, (like the Dragon or the Devils Whip)I am usually around 20 or 25 over. But if the road doesn't have anything blocking the view, I am pushing it as hard as I can.
I don't have a death wish, I have a life wish. My bike is my drug and I partake in the adrenaline as much as I can. Its good for this old man. But I appreciate the concern.

[Bob Denman]

"Adrenaline Junkies"???
Try not telling your Missus about all of the Farkle Money that you've spent, and have her figure it all out on her own!
1. It doesn't put anyone else in danger
2. It is WAYYYYYY.... more dangerous than riding any motorcycle!

[Spin]

That is what I don't understand. Everyone always talks about how much you need shocks, and the aftermarket swaybar, etc. I know for a fact that the 2014 and up RT is more than capable. And to date, I have not come across another spyder rider that has all these after market parts that can leave me. Now that I have my F3T, I am really looking for those aftermarket believers to see what they can do.
As for the last comment, I believe the little girl with the rabbit eared hat on Bob's Burgers said it best. "The best part of living is almost dying, it's called almost live dying."

Before I purchased my RT last month, and after spending hours reading threads on this site, I was sure I was going to get a laser alignment and a BajaRon sway bar. Now that I have put some miles on it I really don't think I need the alignment, and while I'm sure the sway bar will help, I don't think I need that either. In my opinion, this bike stock out of the box tracks well and handles fine!

[ruseman]

But the nanny also has more control on the brakes than you do.. she will apply the brakes not cut the gas or retard the ignition whichever needed to get you safe...annoying at times but great when your losing it. If your good or getting there you may be able to double the posted speed for turns and you can fool the nanny some but in my opinion she does a good jkob on the RS/GS and RSS. May be different on the RT and F3...

I have 2013 RTS SE5 and while I understand the need for the "parental" controls, to me the cutting of the engine is pretty frustrating. I am wondering if you have a manual transmission with a clutch to feather, can you actually minimize the effects? I am not talking about trying to fly through a corner too fast, only about coming out of a curve or a turn harder. My semi-automatic experiences a fair amount of lag.

[Bob Denman]

Having a clutch probably wouldn't work any better...
As you try to "feather the clutch": she'll probably just chop the throttle.
(In an attempt to prevent you from over-revving the engine. )

[blacklightning]

I have 2013 RTS SE5 and while I understand the need for the "parental" controls, to me the cutting of the engine is pretty frustrating. I am wondering if you have a manual transmission with a clutch to feather, can you actually minimize the effects? I am not talking about trying to fly through a corner too fast, only about coming out of a curve or a turn harder. My semi-automatic experiences a fair amount of lag.

On my 2014 RT SM6, I only recall my acceleration being cut down when I had wheel spin and was going sideways (like doing a burn out or something). But I have often felt the brakes being applied in a curve while I was actually still accelerating and trying to encourage the bike to go faster. I have never had the nanny kick in, where it wasn't needed. Nearly each and every time that the nanny kicked in, I thought "wow, I was glad that was there to save me.".