Belt tension APP for Iphone,Ipad and Ipod touch

[Doc - Riverside]

Thanks to SL Member "larryd" he sent me a interesting link to Gates Belts for Bicycles. They use carbon flat belts on some high end bicycles like we have on the SPYDER. As I have a Gates 507C sonic meter, an IPOD Touch for music on my SPYDER and an IPAD ( don't have a IPHONE) it was time to install the APP on both and head for the shop for some testing.

The APP only measures Frequency of the belt when it is tapped. The Gates Meter also has the ability to measure Frequency. So with the rear wheel jacked up and the mic for the Gate Meter positioned 1/2 inch off the belt with my jig I was able to tap the belt with a small ball peen hammer, take a measurement and do a comparison. First I did the Gates Meter to the IPOD and then I did the same for the IPAD

Gates 507C	IPOD		Gates 507C	IPAD
28.2hz	28.7hz		28.2hz	28.0hz
28.2hz	28.9hz		28.2hz	28.3hz
28.2hz	28.5hz		28.4hz	28.4hz

As you can see the data collected looks very good. Gates recommends that a external mic be used instead of the built in mic. The type of mic I would suggest would be on that has a long cable attached that plugs in to the device. That way you can make some kind of jig to hold the mic 1/2 inch away from the belt. This will give you a very consistent reading as you rotate the wheel to a new position and tape it ( the mic doesn't move between readings) .

The only draw back to using the APP is it will not measure a frequency below 20hz. This will only effect the minimum tension for doing the belt tension spec of 450n +/- 150n.

OK !!!!!!!!!!!! Now we have a way of reading the frequency of the belt when tapped what can we do with it.

The formula in the Gates Manual for figuring the Tension of the belt in Newtons is: T_Newtons= 4 x M x W x S² x F² x 1e10^-9 . Well I would suspect that Bob is totally lost and is ready to go find a good book, But bare with me Grasshopper. There are now two belts that are now used on the SPYDER. One belt covers the V-Twin engine/Drive train and the other is for the 1330 engine/Drive train.

Engine	Mass (M)	Width (W)	Span (S)
V-Twin	8.4 g/m	28.0 mm	1028 mm
ACE 1330	8.0 g/m	28.0 mm	980 mm

The above values have to be programed into the Gates meter so the Tech at the dealer can tension your belt properly according to the spec for your SPYDER. But what would happen if the wrong set was selected for your belt and the tech tensioned your belt anyhow. Roger and I did an experiment as he has a 2010 RT and a Gates Meter and I have the 2014 RT and a gates meter. This is the results we got using the above parameters.

	V-Twin (Span 1028mm)	ACE 1330 (Span 980mm)
Roger 2010 RT	535n	431n
Doc 2014 RT	1054n	886n

Roger's belt spec is 450n +/-150n and you can see that his belt is in spec using both parameters. My belt spec is 1050n +/-150n is in spec using the V-Twin belt data but just below spec for the ACE 1330 belt. The data is close and mistakes can be made setting up the meter and you wouldn't know it.


OK now lets really make this simple so all you have to do is get a frequency reading and convert it to Tension in Newtons. If we plug the above belt data into the formula we come up with two number that are constant. So now all one has to do is take the frequency, square it and multiply it by the constant for your belt configuration.

Belt	Constant
V-Twin (Span 1028mm)	.99422
ACE 1330 (Span 980mm)	.86052

Constant x F² = Tension_Newtons


Expected Frequency Range one should see based on belt tension for your Model SPYDER. Keep in Mind the APP will not give you a reading below 20hz (it displays <20.0hz)

V-Twin Belt All Models (Years 2008 - 2012)	Min (300n)	Spec (450n)	Max (600N)
Belt Spec 450+/-150n Frequency range	17.37hz	21.27hz	24.56hz

V-Twin Belt All Models (2013) and RS/ST (Year 2014)	Min (900n)	Spec (1050n)	Max (1200n)
Belt Spec 1050+/-150n Frequency range	30.09hz	32.5hz	34.74hz

ACE 1330 Belt Model RT (2014)	Min (900n)	Spec (1050n)	Max (1200n)
Belt Spec 1050+/- 150n Frequency range	32.34hz	34.93hz	37.34hz

The gates site is http://www.carbondrivesystems.com/pr...soriesandtools (bottom right corner)


You can also go to Apple APPs and do a search on Gates Corporation

Yes most of the various parts of the APP are dealing with a bicycle it doesn't matter. We want the frequency of the tapped belt.

[billybovine]

Interesting stuff Doc.

Now I need to find a android version of the same app and try it on my Blackberry.

[ironbuttdean]

Glad to see you found a way to entertain yourself this afternoon. Good information.

Thanks to SL Member "larryd" he sent me a interesting link to Gates Belts for Bicycles. They use carbon flat belts on some high end bicycles like we have on the SPYDER. As I have a Gates 507C sonic meter, an IPOD Touch for music on my SPYDER and an IPAD ( don't have a IPHONE) it was time to install the APP on both and head for the shop for some testing.

The APP only measures Frequency of the belt when it is tapped. The Gates Meter also has the ability to measure Frequency. So with the rear wheel jacked up and the mic for the Gate Meter positioned 1/2 inch off the belt with my jig I was able to tap the belt with a small ball peen hammer, take a measurement and do a comparison. First I did the Gates Meter to the IPOD and then I did the same for the IPAD

Gates 507C	IPOD		Gates 507C	IPAD
28.2hz	28.7hz		28.2hz	28.0hz
28.2hz	28.9hz		28.2hz	28.3hz
28.2hz	28.5hz		28.4hz	28.4hz

As you can see the data collected looks very good. Gates recommends that a external mic be used instead of the built in mic. The type of mic I would suggest would be on that has a long cable attached that plugs in to the device. That way you can make some kind of jig to hold the mic 1/2 inch away from the belt. This will give you a very consistent reading as you rotate the wheel to a new position and tape it ( the mic doesn't move between readings) .

The only draw back to using the APP is it will not measure a frequency below 20hz. This will only effect the minimum tension for doing the belt tension spec of 450n +/- 150n.

OK !!!!!!!!!!!! Now we have a way of reading the frequency of the belt when tapped what can we do with it.

The formula in the Gates Manual for figuring the Tension of the belt in Newtons is: T_Newtons= 4 x M x W x S² x F² x 1e10^-9 . Well I would suspect that Bob is totally lost and is ready to go find a good book, But bare with me Grasshopper. There are now two belts that are now used on the SPYDER. One belt covers the V-Twin engine/Drive train and the other is for the 1330 engine/Drive train.

Engine	Mass (M)	Width (W)	Span (S)
V-Twin	8.4 g/m	28.0 mm	1028 mm
ACE 1330	8.0 g/m	28.0 mm	980 mm

The above values have to be programed into the Gates meter so the Tech at the dealer can tension your belt properly according to the spec for your SPYDER. But what would happen if the wrong set was selected for your belt and the tech tensioned your belt anyhow. Roger and I did an experiment as he has a 2010 RT and a Gates Meter and I have the 2014 RT and a gates meter. This is the results we got using the above parameters.

	V-Twin (Span 1028mm)	ACE 1330 (Span 980mm)
Roger 2010 RT	535n	431n
Doc 2014 RT	1054n	886n

Roger's belt spec is 450n +/-150n and you can see that his belt is in spec using both parameters. My belt spec is 1050n +/-150n is in spec using the V-Twin belt data but just below spec for the ACE 1330 belt. The data is close and mistakes can be made setting up the meter and you wouldn't know it.


OK now lets really make this simple so all you have to do is get a frequency reading and convert it to Tension in Newtons. If we plug the above belt data into the formula we come up with two number that are constant. So now all one has to do is take the frequency, square it and multiply it by the constant for your belt configuration.

Belt	Constant
V-Twin (Span 1028mm)	.99422
ACE 1330 (Span 980mm)	.86052

Constant x F² = Tension_Newtons


Expected Frequency Range one should see based on belt tension for your Model SPYDER. Keep in Mind the APP will not give you a reading below 20hz (it displays <20.0hz)

V-Twin Belt All Models (Years 2008 - 2012)	Min (300n)	Spec (450n)	Max (600N)
Belt Spec 450+/-150n Frequency range	17.37hz	21.27hz	24.56hz

V-Twin Belt All Models (2013) and RT/ST (Year 2014)	Min (900n)	Spec (1050n)	Max (1200n)
Belt Spec 1050+/-150n Frequency range	30.09hz	32.5hz	34.74hz

ACE 1330 Belt Model RT (2014)	Min (900n)	Spec (1050n)	Max (1200n)
Belt Spec 1050+/- 150n Frequency range	32.34hz	34.93hz	37.34hz

The gates site is http://www.carbondrivesystems.com/pr...soriesandtools (bottom right corner)


You can also go to Apple APPs and do a search on Gates Corporation

Yes most of the various parts of the APP are dealing with a bicycle it doesn't matter. We want the frequency of the tapped belt.

[jthornton]

Awsome work Doc!

JT

[SNOOPY]

Now I'm really confused. Lol

[va2djd]

ok I downloade the app and they ask me the number of tooth of front, rear, and belt any idee?

[Doc - Riverside]

ok I downloade the app and they ask me the number of tooth of front, rear, and belt any idee?

This Idea was approached about 10 months ago. read this for history http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...belt+frequency

People where asking for a APP that they could measure the frequency of the belt like the dealer does to do your belt tension with the Gates Sonic Meter (Meter is over $500.00). This App that was found will do the same thing as the meter if you have one of the Apple devices. As stated in the write up we only want to measure the frequency of the belt when tapped. Once we know the frequency we can square that number and multiply by the constant I listed for the belt that you have on your SPYDER. This will give you the tension in Newtons that your belt is set at. When you open the APP ignore the two silver blocks that come up. Look at the bottom menu bar and tap Tension. It will bring up a screen as pictured.

[Lagaffe]

Wowwwwww !!!

Great job, Thank you !

[Doc - Riverside]

Now I'm really confused. Lol

What are you confused about? This is an APP that one can do there own belt tension check or adjustment just like the dealer does it but simpler. The APP was developed by Gates, the maker of the belts for the SPYDER. I just explained the function we need to do the job on the SPYDER. It is electronic and gives you a more accurate reading than the finger click method.

[Bob Denman]

Doc... Thanks!

But it DOES remind me of a joke...

How does a Classicly trained musician define, "Perfect Pitch"?
It's when you throw a set of bagpipes into the Town Dump, and they land on top of a banjo!


Serlously...
The Missus has an IPad; what do I need in order to make your Magic happen?
Just an external microphone, and an application?
I think that even I might be able to pull this one together!

[Magdave]

Now I am confused I measured the freq. got 88hz well above your calculations. Just returned from the dealer and the CURRENT spec for 2013 is 750n I read it in the latest FSM myself (curse you BRP for constantly changing specs.). That being said they did a 3 point measurement with the BRP device and got ~750n max 650n low. Now what? Maybe the android version home screen freq. measurement is different that Apple?

edit
I did not have it jacked up could that be the difference? Readings were very consistent too. Did 3 times.

[Doc - Riverside]

Now I am confused I measured the freq. got 88hz well above your calculations. Just returned from the dealer and the CURRENT spec for 2013 is 750n I read it in the latest FSM myself (curse you BRP for constantly changing specs.). That being said they did a 3 point measurement with the BRP device and got ~750n max 650n low. Now what? Maybe the android version home screen freq. measurement is different that Apple?

edit
I did not have it jacked up could that be the difference? Readings were very consistent too. Did 3 times.

Yes, it must be jacked up using the frame. Rear wheel has to be off the ground. The frequency for 750n is 27.46hz so your reading should be close to this. Is the new spec 750 +/-150n? Not sure about any Android APP out there but I did verify the frequency data I reported for the Apple APP against the Gates Sonic Meter . The frequency that you read can't be right because it works out to be 7699n.

[Magdave]

Yes, it must be jacked up using the frame. Rear wheel has to be off the ground. The frequency for 750n is 27.46hz so your reading should be close to this. Is the new spec 750 +/-150n? Not sure about any Android APP out there but I did verify the frequency data I reported for the Apple APP against the Gates Sonic Meter . The frequency that you read can't be right because it works out to be 7699n.

I used the Conti app let me know what you get using it in a similar test it might be the differences in the app. It is repeatable though so if you get a baseline from the Continental app I can use it. 750n is what I read in their shop manual. Anyone else talked to their dealers lately about the belt tension to verify the change?

[Craniac]

Got the app. Thank you.
Now a couple simple question. What is the best way to strike the belt?
and, where is the best place to strike the belt?

[Craniac]

Doc... Thanks!

But it DOES remind me of a joke...

How does a Classiclytrained musician define, "Perfect Pitch"?
It's when you throw a set of bagpipes into the Town Dump, and they land on top of a banjo!

Careful I love the bagpipes and banjo. But it does remind me of a joke...

What is the difference between a cattle guard and a banjo player?

Most people slow down before running over a cattle guard.

[SNOOPY]

What are you confused about? This is an APP that one can do there own belt tension check or adjustment just like the dealer does it but simpler. The APP was developed by Gates, the maker of the belts for the SPYDER. I just explained the function we need to do the job on the SPYDER. It is electronic and gives you a more accurate reading than the finger click method.

Guess I'd have to load it on my iPad and try it. All the numbers confuse me.

Haven't even looked at how exactly the belt is tensioned or aligned yet.

.

[Bob Denman]

But it does remind me of a joke...
What is the difference between a cattle guard and a banjo player?
Most people slow down before running over a cattle guard.

I like that one too!

[finless]

Been using the krikit on my belt but will double check with this procedure.

FYI for you android guys. Most the mic's on Android devices suck as their frequency range is limited.
Apple has a high quality Mic in it and a chip to support a good frequency range.
Trust me I know, I run one of the top Android ROM site around. www.freaktab.com

Bob

[ahh-cool]

what penny said to Sheldon when she met him:
So you’re like, one of those, beautiful mind genius guys.
I think she was talking to you Doc

[ahh-cool]

I guess my question is does it matter how hard you hit it and where?
did you test it if you hit it a couple of inches from where you did it before?
what about distance to mike? extra 1/4"??
inquiring minds want to know

[sandman53]

If using a Krikit tool how many lbs do you set the belt tension ? Are there new guidelines? Just put on a new Kumo and want to check everything.

[ahh-cool]

I just adjusted my belt after installing my hitch.
I can tell you it was extremely hard, not adjusting the belt, that was easy.
Asking my daughter if I could borrow her I-phone which I pay for.
so I could adjust the belt, and hearing over and over don't hit my phone with that hammer!
Stefan
BTW I jacked up the bike and put a box under it and just laid the phone on it, so it stayed stationary.

[ahh-cool]

If using a Krikit tool how many lbs do you set the belt tension ? Are there new guidelines? Just put on a new Kumo and want to check everything.

before I removed my belt I took a measurement with the krikit and marked it. never using one before when I put the belt back on it wouldn't read anything.
I finally realized that the belt was too tight and was past it's limit.

[KX5062]

Also, does it matter if you strike it versus plucking?

[Doc - Riverside]

Also, does it matter if you strike it versus plucking?

I use a small ball peen hammer. I use the ball end and tap the belt with a small amount of force. The key is to try and strike the belt the same as you take the three required readings.