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The First Spider

Firefly said:
But how can this be when the Earth is only 6,000 years old???:roflblack:
Click to expand...

Dan, don't get me started but I have an answer for you. This is not the place to start this debate though. One day we will talk and I will give you my answer, it really does make sense.
 
dltang said:
Dan, don't get me started but I have an answer for you. This is not the place to start this debate though. One day we will talk and I will give you my answer, it really does make sense.
Click to expand...

Before we get too far off topic: Just curious - does it have anything to do with this?

ureye.gif
 
dltang said:
This is where Dan and I agree, I too am lost on this one.
Click to expand...

Sorry. This is getting way off topic, so this thread might get moved… The picture relates to a theory (which is the only one I know of) which explains why the world may have only existed for a few thousand years (5, 10, 20??) but at the same time it could be true that dinosaurs (etc) lived millions of years ago. If you’re interested, I’ll ramble on for a bit (if not, you can ignore this post)…

The theory is John Wheeler’s ‘participatory anthropic principle’. Wheeler was a brilliant physicist: he was one of the principles of the Manhattan Project and coined the terms ‘black hole’ and ‘worm hole’. He never won a Nobel prize, but he was the doctoral advisor to two students that eventually did. Wheeler started with two very strange results from quantum physics: (1) Matter does not have a real material existence unless it is observed by a conscious mind. Rather it exists only as a probability function: in a vague, fuzzy agglomeration of all that is possible; (2) The quantum world, the most fundamental level of our reality, does not obey our linear, cause-and-effect notions of time. The effect can literally come before the cause.

Most physicists don’t like to think too much about what these strange results ‘really mean’. But Wheeler did, and he concluded that the material universe could not have actually existed before it contained a conscious observer (us). In a nutshell, the theory says there was nothing before the conscious mind, and we essentially ‘create history’ by looking for it today. The picture is meant to symbolize Wheeler’s argument that we created the big bang by looking for it today, by peering into the deepest regions of space with our telescopes, etc. Thus, it is true that dinosaurs lived millions of years ago and there was a big bang some 13-odd billion years ago, but only ‘in theory’. Nothing was actually going on before conscious minds existed: it’s all kind of just like the back-story to a movie.

Mind you, I don’t necessarily believe the theory, but I find it fascinating to consider. Google Wheeler and ‘participatory anthropic principle’ and you’ll find some videos with physicists talking about some mind-bending stuff (beware of the ‘What-the-Bleep’ videos, however). If anyone’s interested, I can send you some links to some free web-books that explain this in more detail.
 
Brunswick said:
Sorry. This is getting way off topic, so this thread might get moved… The picture relates to a theory (which is the only one I know of) which explains why the world may have only existed for a few thousand years (5, 10, 20??) but at the same time it could be true that dinosaurs (etc) lived millions of years ago. If you’re interested, I’ll ramble on for a bit (if not, you can ignore this post)…

The theory is John Wheeler’s ‘participatory anthropic principle’. Wheeler was a brilliant physicist: he was one of the principles of the Manhattan Project and coined the terms ‘black hole’ and ‘worm hole’. He never won a Nobel prize, but he was the doctoral advisor to two students that eventually did. Wheeler started with two very strange results from quantum physics: (1) Matter does not have a real material existence unless it is observed by a conscious mind. Rather it exists only as a probability function: in a vague, fuzzy agglomeration of all that is possible; (2) The quantum world, the most fundamental level of our reality, does not obey our linear, cause-and-effect notions of time. The effect can literally come before the cause.

Most physicists don’t like to think too much about what these strange results ‘really mean’. But Wheeler did, and he concluded that the material universe could not have actually existed before it contained a conscious observer (us). In a nutshell, the theory says there was nothing before the conscious mind, and we essentially ‘create history’ by looking for it today. The picture is meant to symbolize Wheeler’s argument that we created the big bang by looking for it today, by peering into the deepest regions of space with our telescopes, etc. Thus, it is true that dinosaurs lived millions of years ago and there was a big bang some 13-odd billion years ago, but only ‘in theory’. Nothing was actually going on before conscious minds existed: it’s all kind of just like the back-story to a movie.

Mind you, I don’t necessarily believe the theory, but I find it fascinating to consider. Google Wheeler and ‘participatory anthropic principle’ and you’ll find some videos with physicists talking about some mind-bending stuff (beware of the ‘What-the-Bleep’ videos, however). If anyone’s interested, I can send you some links to some free web-books that explain this in more detail.
Click to expand...

Nope, that is not what I was referring to in my post back to Dan. It is interesting information though. If you are interested in my explanation, just sent me a PM. I would be happy to share.
 
Brunswick said:
Sorry. This is getting way off topic, so this thread might get moved… The picture relates to a theory (which is the only one I know of) which explains why the world may have only existed for a few thousand years (5, 10, 20??) but at the same time it could be true that dinosaurs (etc) lived millions of years ago. If you’re interested, I’ll ramble on for a bit (if not, you can ignore this post)…

The theory is John Wheeler’s ‘participatory anthropic principle’. Wheeler was a brilliant physicist: he was one of the principles of the Manhattan Project and coined the terms ‘black hole’ and ‘worm hole’. He never won a Nobel prize, but he was the doctoral advisor to two students that eventually did. Wheeler started with two very strange results from quantum physics: (1) Matter does not have a real material existence unless it is observed by a conscious mind. Rather it exists only as a probability function: in a vague, fuzzy agglomeration of all that is possible; (2) The quantum world, the most fundamental level of our reality, does not obey our linear, cause-and-effect notions of time. The effect can literally come before the cause.

Most physicists don’t like to think too much about what these strange results ‘really mean’. But Wheeler did, and he concluded that the material universe could not have actually existed before it contained a conscious observer (us). In a nutshell, the theory says there was nothing before the conscious mind, and we essentially ‘create history’ by looking for it today. The picture is meant to symbolize Wheeler’s argument that we created the big bang by looking for it today, by peering into the deepest regions of space with our telescopes, etc. Thus, it is true that dinosaurs lived millions of years ago and there was a big bang some 13-odd billion years ago, but only ‘in theory’. Nothing was actually going on before conscious minds existed: it’s all kind of just like the back-story to a movie.

Mind you, I don’t necessarily believe the theory, but I find it fascinating to consider. Google Wheeler and ‘participatory anthropic principle’ and you’ll find some videos with physicists talking about some mind-bending stuff (beware of the ‘What-the-Bleep’ videos, however). If anyone’s interested, I can send you some links to some free web-books that explain this in more detail.
Click to expand...

I've read a bit on this type of theory before -- and they have shown some of this to be true-- on a very very very microscopic level. The thing is it could never really be proven either way due to the nature of the theory itself.... lol

I'll stick with the fact that we have fossils that are millions of years old- easier to understand. :D
 
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