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Rt wins
- Thread starter Roger
- Start date
opcorn:BLACK WIDOW
New member
Rev it up
You know, the Rotax 990/991 is a super fun engine in a sport bike or a sport Spyder, just rev it up, downshift often to keep the RPM's up and go. But in a touring machine that is to compete with the GL 1800 where torque, performance and low RPM effortless crusing is the norm. I just don't know---I will try one when they come out but just driving one around the block won't tell the story. I have ridden my GL 1800 many miles without ever taking it out of 5th gear going through speed zones of 40 mph up to turnpike speeds all in the same gear. I think that is what a touring machine is all about. I just don't want to invest in what may be a $ 25,000 white elephant. I think I'll just wait to see what comes later.nojokeBTW all the fluff is really nice and the price is very competive; However, if the engine isn't right the fluff isn't worth that much and the price to high.. IMHO
Michael:doorag:
You know, the Rotax 990/991 is a super fun engine in a sport bike or a sport Spyder, just rev it up, downshift often to keep the RPM's up and go. But in a touring machine that is to compete with the GL 1800 where torque, performance and low RPM effortless crusing is the norm. I just don't know---I will try one when they come out but just driving one around the block won't tell the story. I have ridden my GL 1800 many miles without ever taking it out of 5th gear going through speed zones of 40 mph up to turnpike speeds all in the same gear. I think that is what a touring machine is all about. I just don't want to invest in what may be a $ 25,000 white elephant. I think I'll just wait to see what comes later.nojokeBTW all the fluff is really nice and the price is very competive; However, if the engine isn't right the fluff isn't worth that much and the price to high.. IMHO
Michael:doorag:
Well maybe the Wing doesn't really need all that power? There are plenty of cars out there with smaller engines and less power than a Goldwing.
BLACK WIDOW
New member
Power
Yes, I agree power is a relative term. To me power is safety, enjoyment, and confidence, not to mention the personal satisfaction just knowing that you have the power to handle any situation on the road.nojoke BTW I
wouldn't own one of those cars.
Michael:doorag:
Well maybe the Wing doesn't really need all that power? There are plenty of cars out there with smaller engines and less power than a Goldwing.
Yes, I agree power is a relative term. To me power is safety, enjoyment, and confidence, not to mention the personal satisfaction just knowing that you have the power to handle any situation on the road.nojoke BTW I
wouldn't own one of those cars.
Michael:doorag:
BajaRon
Well-known member
I frankly had the same concerns. Lamont isn't allowed to let anyone else ride his borrowed RT so I can't say 1st hand. But he says BRP has adjusted the power band and increased low end torque on the RT to where he feels it's a great combo.
Though 8-10k more than the original Spyder it's 10-12k less than the Gold Wing Trike. It's a lot of machine for the money no matter which way you look at it.
It may not be an 1800cc flat 6 but if it does the job I think it competes very well in every other aspect with the Gold Wing trike.
Though 8-10k more than the original Spyder it's 10-12k less than the Gold Wing Trike. It's a lot of machine for the money no matter which way you look at it.
It may not be an 1800cc flat 6 but if it does the job I think it competes very well in every other aspect with the Gold Wing trike.
Lamonster
SpyderLovers Founder
As far as power goes I find it has plenty to get the job done on the low end. It's faster than my CRV by far. The top end is lacking to me because I'm so use to my RS giving me everything I want when I want it, I find you have to wait on the RT a little longer than my RS. Would that keep me from buying a RT? Not really, what I really want to know is if the RT will go 100,000 miles without major repair. Not everyone will put those kind of miles on their RT but I would for sure.
NancysToy
Motorbike Professor
I think if this is what you are looking for, you are going to be disappointed. You can't do this with the GS/RS, and you certainly won't be able to do so with the RT. I personally don't mind the shifting, and I think the definition of a touring machine is more about comfort and storage. We each march to our own drummer.
This is a question mark, for sure. Certainly the acid test in comparing to the Honda Goldwing or the BMW K1200LT. None of us will know until you get the first 100K on yours, though.
BLACK WIDOW
New member
Touring
Scotty, I do agree that we all want different things when it comes to motorcycles especially touring machines. I am not trying to down the RT or praise the Goldwing; ( I like both of them) I am simply expressing my thoughts as to what I would like in a true touring model. I think that comfort and storgage are two of the main ingredients, the other being the power to handle it. It wouldn't be very comfortable for me if when you need to pass that slow moving truck on a mountain road, in a short passing zone, and you don't have the power to deliver. What it all comes down to; If one really likes the RT and wants one, the engine may not be a factor in perception. Personally, I guess it is fair to say i,m a little suspicious of the set-up and hope this engine was not just a stop-gap measure until they come out with something that will knock your socks off.nojokeIMHO
BTW, I wouldn't buy a Lexus with a Carola engine either.:f_spider:
Michael:doorag:
I think if this is what you are looking for, you are going to be disappointed. You can't do this with the GS/RS, and you certainly won't be able to do so with the RT. I personally don't mind the shifting, and I think the definition of a touring machine is more about comfort and storage. We each march to our own drummer.
This is a question mark, for sure. Certainly the acid test in comparing to the Honda Goldwing or the BMW K1200LT. None of us will know until you get the first 100K on yours, though.
Scotty, I do agree that we all want different things when it comes to motorcycles especially touring machines. I am not trying to down the RT or praise the Goldwing; ( I like both of them) I am simply expressing my thoughts as to what I would like in a true touring model. I think that comfort and storgage are two of the main ingredients, the other being the power to handle it. It wouldn't be very comfortable for me if when you need to pass that slow moving truck on a mountain road, in a short passing zone, and you don't have the power to deliver. What it all comes down to; If one really likes the RT and wants one, the engine may not be a factor in perception. Personally, I guess it is fair to say i,m a little suspicious of the set-up and hope this engine was not just a stop-gap measure until they come out with something that will knock your socks off.
nojokeIMHOBTW, I wouldn't buy a Lexus with a Carola engine either.:f_spider:
Michael:doorag:
3wheeldemon
New member
Interesting debate. I tend to agree with Lamont and NancysToy but then I ask myself "How much would I pay for a Goldwing Trike with two wheels on the front, fully built by Honda, if such a thing existed?" , my answer is a very large number. The RT is an exciting touring motorcycle only because of its "Y factor" not because its engine, manufacture reputation, storage or looks.
I believe that regardless if the RT lack of power is real or perceived, the fact that the trade press is picking on this subject is going to force BRP to eventually increase the RT engine for marketing reasons. IMHO
3WD
I believe that regardless if the RT lack of power is real or perceived, the fact that the trade press is picking on this subject is going to force BRP to eventually increase the RT engine for marketing reasons. IMHO
3WD
ArmyJoe
New member
I got to meet Fred & Cherrie Rau today at Ask Powersports in Columbus in sit on the RT. I'm really impressed with it, though it's something I'd never buy.
The seat fits like a glove and the handlebars are in a perfect place. I hope it sells well, because we can always user more Spyder riders.
The seat fits like a glove and the handlebars are in a perfect place. I hope it sells well, because we can always user more Spyder riders.
ArmyJoe
New member
The price and performance. I can turn a sport bike into a tourer, but I can't turn a tourer into a sport bike. For a lot less than the price of an RT, I can outfit my RS with all the stuff I need for long-distance trips.
BLACK WIDOW
New member
RS Tourer
Michael:doorag:
Yes, I tend to agree with you on that point----I think a bunch of us have already done that.:f_spider:
Michael:doorag:
This is the biggest question we would have also. As a general rule , touring bikes get double to triple the miles put on them versus a sport bike. Will the 990 still be alive at 100,000 miles after spinning 5-6000 rpm most of its life on the interstate. ............ And not just evidence by one or two people that made it to 40-50k without an overhaul.
I'm leaning more towards Michael's thoughts on this one. I'm trying to mod my SE5 into the comfort/sport balance of a Kaw Concourse, Honda ST or Yamaha FJR and still be on three wheels. Getting to Gold Wing performance/comfort is a whole different thing. I've come to believe the following:
Horse power generally wins races
Torque generally wins at everything else
Horse power/ Torque should get you out of more trouble than it gets you into. (I used to use this as axiom to sell my wife on buying the bike I wanted, but now I actually believe it)
So far the Rotax is a fairly big adjustment for me since it is not one of the torque monsters I usually look for. I thought being a big twin it would have lots of torque down low. Wrong! As it breaks in it's getting better and as I ride it more I have gotten used to the old two-stroke mentality of riding at high RPM to get what I want. It's still a great ride, but I miss the torque.
If BRP is selling the RT as a pure touring ride then it's trying to get closer to the Gold Wing balance of comfort and performance. In that case IMHO it is going to need a much bigger and wider torque curve than the Rotax is likely to provide. Hopefully I'm either dead wrong or BRP has a big displacement version on the way. I'm looking forward to riding a RT soon to find out. In the meantime I'll keep adding mods to the SE5 and enjoying it more all the time.
Horse power generally wins races
Torque generally wins at everything else
Horse power/ Torque should get you out of more trouble than it gets you into. (I used to use this as axiom to sell my wife on buying the bike I wanted, but now I actually believe it)
So far the Rotax is a fairly big adjustment for me since it is not one of the torque monsters I usually look for. I thought being a big twin it would have lots of torque down low. Wrong! As it breaks in it's getting better and as I ride it more I have gotten used to the old two-stroke mentality of riding at high RPM to get what I want. It's still a great ride, but I miss the torque.
If BRP is selling the RT as a pure touring ride then it's trying to get closer to the Gold Wing balance of comfort and performance. In that case IMHO it is going to need a much bigger and wider torque curve than the Rotax is likely to provide. Hopefully I'm either dead wrong or BRP has a big displacement version on the way. I'm looking forward to riding a RT soon to find out. In the meantime I'll keep adding mods to the SE5 and enjoying it more all the time.
BajaRon
Well-known member
In poker you don't show your hand until your ready (not that I know anything about poker).
I think BRP knows that eventually they'll want to put a bigger motor in the RT. But right now the current power plant probably matches up pretty well to the GW and much better than the Harley competition.
I've ridden with GW trikes and now with Lamont on his RT. Lamont probably rides a bit harder than the typical GW trike rider but still, I was favorably impressed with how the RT scooted.
Right now BRP can put the RT on the road relatively quickly without a complete re-engineer, retool, rework effort and see how the RT flies. Especially in this economy.
They can probably make a profit with a relatively low production count this way too. Later, if the demand is strong enough, BRP may up the ante with a bigger motor. At that point it would re-energize the market with new interest as well.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
My advise is ride the RT before you make any final judgement. As long as you're not looking for a crotch rocket you may find the RT a winner.
bandwagon
New member
Why ride a mule,when you can ride a stallion
I want a true touring bike in the long run, like what I see so far in the RT. However, I think nothing compares to the Goldwings that I have seen. I have never had the joy of riding on one. I'm going to wait, if I can to see if BRP throw out a 1200 or better. It just makes more sense, but, just like all the other makers of products, they chose to milk the cow. I feel BRP know's the Spyder should have a bigger engine. I don't want to beat the horse I just want to simply kick it with my heel. So until then, I'm going to put the things that I need on my Spyder, as the after marketer's catch up and start making like products for those of us stuck with 2008-9 models. I like the handle bars on the RT and radio/cb setup. I know someone is working on those items as we communicate. If the RT had a bigger engine I would forget about buying that Goldwing trike or Hannigan quad. I got five thousand miles on my 2009 compared to my sister, she got her's two weeks later and only have 70 miles on it. That's a damn shame, yes sister I'm calling you out. :clap: I will put a 100,000 miles on something with three wheels. Ride it like you own it!!!
I want a true touring bike in the long run, like what I see so far in the RT. However, I think nothing compares to the Goldwings that I have seen. I have never had the joy of riding on one. I'm going to wait, if I can to see if BRP throw out a 1200 or better. It just makes more sense, but, just like all the other makers of products, they chose to milk the cow. I feel BRP know's the Spyder should have a bigger engine. I don't want to beat the horse I just want to simply kick it with my heel. So until then, I'm going to put the things that I need on my Spyder, as the after marketer's catch up and start making like products for those of us stuck with 2008-9 models. I like the handle bars on the RT and radio/cb setup. I know someone is working on those items as we communicate. If the RT had a bigger engine I would forget about buying that Goldwing trike or Hannigan quad. I got five thousand miles on my 2009 compared to my sister, she got her's two weeks later and only have 70 miles on it. That's a damn shame, yes sister I'm calling you out. :clap: I will put a 100,000 miles on something with three wheels. Ride it like you own it!!!
Scotty, I do agree that we all want different things when it comes to motorcycles especially touring machines. I am not trying to down the RT or praise the Goldwing; ( I like both of them) I am simply expressing my thoughts as to what I would like in a true touring model. I think that comfort and storgage are two of the main ingredients, the other being the power to handle it. It wouldn't be very comfortable for me if when you need to pass that slow moving truck on a mountain road, in a short passing zone, and you don't have the power to deliver. What it all comes down to; If one really likes the RT and wants one, the engine may not be a factor in perception. Personally, I guess it is fair to say i,m a little suspicious of the set-up and hope this engine was not just a stop-gap measure until they come out with something that will knock your socks off.
BTW, I wouldn't buy a Lexus with a Carola engine either.:f_spider:
Michael:doorag:
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