RT Twin heat problems

[wanderingman]

As I have read old posts I have read many posts regarding engine heating problems on the V twin RT Spyders. Was this a problem on all V twin Rt's or only certain years?

 

[ThreeWheels]

2013 was a sub-optimal design that required a recall campaign to fix the heat issue.
I think BRP will do a courtesy retrofit of the 2010 to 2012 Spyders if requested by the dealer.
Some people like the looks of the new vents. I'm not a fan of them myself.

 

[Bob Denman]

Heat problems come in two forms:
Perception of heat
Damage caused by heat
If it's the latter type; there are workable solutions.
As to the former...
I've seen reports of blisters and melted boots, yet I don't recall seeing any pictures of them.
Everybody has the ability to feel heat differently.
Some "Princess and the Pea" types will complain about any puff of air that feels warmer than the current ambient temperatures.
Other folks would grit their teeth, and ride through a flamethrower's destructive path... :shocked:

It's a tough call... :dontknow:

 

[wanderingman]

Rt Heat

I want to buy a Spyder although I am unsure regarding model and am trying to get as much info as possible before purchasing. Thanks for your input.

 

[Bob Denman]

The ones that have the new 1330 triple under the hood, have eliminated about 99% of the heat complaints... :2thumbs:

 

[Highwayman2013]

As I have read old posts I have read many posts regarding engine heating problems on the V twin RT Spyders. Was this a problem on all V twin Rt's or only certain years?

Most of the heat related problems on the 2013 RT have been eliminated by a recall. I would not be afraid to purchase one that had the recall done. We have a 2012 RT and have had the recall scoops added and it really cools the engine well.

 

[Hokiev]

Old heat vs. new heat

I had a 2011 LTD and hated it due to the discomfort of the heat (mostly due to the location of the radiator). I had added some after market modifications that were recommended by many and sold by sponsors on this site, however there was only minimal improvement.

I now have a 2015 RTS and while there is some engine heat, it is not more that I would expect when riding on top of the engine. It is way better than my previous 2011. With the duel radiators mounted in the front with reverse fans and I am other modifications BRP made, I really find the ride enjoyable.

 

[Myron Ah]

Rt twin heat problems

We have a 2013 Rt. When I bought it I did not know about heat issues. Probably would have got a different one but am glad I did not. Here in Maine the heat issue was not a big deal. I did none of the aftermarket stuff. Waited for fix from BRP. It was great. Mine was the first one done at dealer so they were careful. No more heat/fumes etc. I like the scoops and all is good. If the "fix" is in, it is good to ride. Noise levels so on are ok too. I don't see any increase in noise. Fuel mileage is about the same, maybe better(?). I don't ride for economy anyway.

 

[Indiana Ken]

I also have a 2012 RT. Anybody have a picture of these replacement grill / air vents mentioned.

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[robmorg]

We have a 2013 Rt. When I bought it I did not know about heat issues. Probably would have got a different one but am glad I did not. Here in Maine the heat issue was not a big deal. I did none of the aftermarket stuff. Waited for fix from BRP. It was great. Mine was the first one done at dealer so they were careful. No more heat/fumes etc. I like the scoops and all is good. If the "fix" is in, it is good to ride. Noise levels so on are ok too. I don't see any increase in noise. Fuel mileage is about the same, maybe better(?). I don't ride for economy anyway.

The fuel mileage with my 2013 RTL improved 4-5 mpg after the return fuel system was eliminated as a result of the recall. That was a 20-25% improvement, in my case! That seems counter-intuitive, but I'm certainly happy it happened. :thumbup:. There Is no doubt that the 2013 RT is now the best pre-1330 model. It is really "disappointing" however, that they only offered the scoops, and not the entire recall, on the other models. :sour:

 

[jcthorne]

I also have a 2012 RT. Anybody have a picture of these replacement grill / air vents mentioned.

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Here are pics of the scoops / vents installed on Louise 2015.

 

[jcthorne]

The fuel mileage with my 2013 RTL improved 4-5 mpg after the return fuel system was eliminated as a result of the recall. That was a 20-25% improvement, in my case! That seems counter-intuitive, but I'm certainly happy it happened. :thumbup:. There Is no doubt that the 2013 RT is now the best pre-1330 model. It is really "disappointing" however, that they only offered the scoops, and not the entire recall, on the other models. :sour:

For years prior to 2013, the safety recall did not apply as 2012 and older RT owners told the NHTSA they did not have heat problems. Also the kit used on the 2013s will not work on the older fuel system as the older processor cannot handle the PWM output to drive the fuel pump and manage fuel pressure electronically like the newer bikes do. It would be a much more involved refit to remove the return from the pressure regulator on the older bikes.

 

[robmorg]

Thanks, JC. I didn't realize that about the older fuel systems. I've often wondered, however, why the NHTSA didn't force BRP to do a campaign on the older RT's as well - especially since there were reported fires with some of them. Your post sheds some light on that also.

Can you tell me this... Why did fuel economy on the 2013 RT's significantly improve after going to a non-return system? Intuitively one might think it would have the opposite effect of lessening the mpg. The only reason for improvement I can think of is the combination of the other mods, as well as the ECM tweaks. That seems a stretch, however, considering the amount of improvement I experienced.

Also, do you know if the 1330 engines have a return or a non-return fuel feed system? This is unrelated to the discussion at hand, but I am curious about it.

 

[pegasus1300]

I want to buy a Spyder although I am unsure regarding model and am trying to get as much info as possible before purchasing. Thanks for your input.

I guess in order to be of any real use to you we would need to know what your budget is, what you want to use it for and if you will be doing much riding 2 up. If you need to go used and want an RT, the 1330 have been out long enough that some good used prices are starting to show. If 18 to 20,000 is still too high look for a low mileage 2012 or 2013 with the recall work done.They should be in the 12-15000 range. Maybe a little lower.

 

[jcthorne]

Thanks, JC. I didn't realize that about the older fuel systems. I've often wondered, however, why the NHTSA didn't force BRP to do a campaign on the older RT's as well - especially since there were reported fires with some of them. Your post sheds some light on that also.

Can you tell me this... Why did fuel economy on the 2013 RT's significantly improve after going to a non-return system? Intuitively one might think it would have the opposite effect of lessening the mpg. The only reason for improvement I can think of is the combination of the other mods, as well as the ECM tweaks. That seems a stretch, however, considering the amount of improvement I experienced.

Also, do you know if the 1330 engines have a return or a non-return fuel feed system? This is unrelated to the discussion at hand, but I am curious about it.

The returnless fuel system gets better mpg simply because the fuel is not being heated and returned to the tank to boil off. The fuel vapors from the boiling fuel were the fire risk that the safety recall addressed.

All the 1330 engines have a returnless fuel system. I have not been inside a 2014 or 15 RS or ST to see if they were updated.

 

[DrewNJ]

Not really...a non-return fuel setup is more prone to running lean and suffering from low fuel pressure when running hard. However, richen up quite a bit at idle.
Return systems are MUCH more consistent with fuel pressure. Easier to tune. Return systems are far more desirable.

IMHO the recall changes to the 13' is a complete bandaid and not an upgrade. All its doing is allowing the motor to run rich at idle. Rich fueling cools.
Easy bandaid to cool an idling motor without having to mess with EPA approved tuning and emissions.

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[robmorg]

Hmmm, Both Good Thoughts

The returnless fuel system gets better mpg simply because the fuel is not being heated and returned to the tank to boil off.

Not really...a non-return fuel setup is more prone to running lean and suffering from low fuel pressure when running hard. However, richen up quite a bit at idle.
Return systems are MUCH more consistent with fuel pressure. Easier to tune. Return systems are far more desirable.

Actually BOTH make some sense to me as to an explanation for the improved fuel economy after the recall. It's hard to believe that preventing fuel from boiling in the tank is responsible alone for the improvements in mpg I am seeing, even though that was a serious problem that certainly needed a fix. However, it's likely responsible for some of the improvement. The reason I say this is that BEFORE the recall, I had wrapped the headers, added heat reflective tape around the tank, and removed the cat. Those mods together all but completely resolved the "boiling fuel problem" for me before the recall, but did not significantly change the mpg.

OTOH, if a non-return system is prone to running lean under load, THAT can explain a lot. I didn't know that before, but it does make sense. Normally, a hard running engine, with a rich mixture, will burn a lot more fuel, than if you lean it out. I remember that much from the days when I flew a small plane where the mixture was manually controlled by the pilot, and "tuned" with an EGT/CHT gauge. Power vs. economy are the trade-offs when controlling mixture. (Although that is a simplification. There are more factors to be considered.)

IMHO the recall changes to the 13' is a complete bandaid and not an upgrade. All its doing is allowing the motor to run rich at idle. Rich fueling cools.
Easy bandaid to cool an idling motor without having to mess with EPA approved tuning and emissions.

i see your point, Doug, but I'm not sure how much I agree with that last statement. While it does cause the engine to run richer (thus cooler) at idle, they likely could have obtained that result with ECM programming alone. In fact, they DID do that with a service bulletin about six months or so before the actual recall. And it actually did help some, but only when you were idling or running in first gear - like stop & go traffic. However given the results I have personally experienced with my 2013 RT, the recall changes to the fuel system are indeed more than just a band-aid. They resulted in both a cooler running engine AND significantly more economy (about 25% more, in my case), with seemingly no real down-sides. To me, you definitely have to call that an "upgrade". :thumbup:

 

[DrewNJ]

I'm honestly glad it's working out for you. Maybe in a stock motor configuration it just works and the pressure swings are minimal.
I can only comment on what I've been exposed to in the performance arena, and personally watching fuel pressure spike at idle and fluctuate like crazy during riding making tuning a complete nightmare.
Its a very common mod in a lot of applications to swap to a return system for a more consistent and stable fuel pressure.

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[Roadster Renovations]

I did an oil change on a 2012 RT the other day and couldn't believe they routed the exhaust pipe within inches of the bottom of the gas tank. Should have at least been heat tape wrapped and maybe even a heat shield. Obviously that was the 998.

 

[robmorg]

Yeah, I don't doubt your point. But perhaps you raise a valid point in that comparing a stock Can Am V-twin motor to a finely tuned high performance engine could be a little like apples & oranges. . It does seem reasonable to assume that fuel pressure variances could have less consequence with our 998 engine.