Quick question to all you gear heads - what if I DON'T flash my ECU?

[Spyderman2018]

Quick question for all you gear heads out there - I'm currently running a 2018 F3-S with a cat delete & a K&M air filter. Also run 91 octane(ethanol free) gas. What would happen if I never reflash my ecm?? Any danger of eventually burning down a piston or something?? I already know I'm running a little on the lean side. Please chime in......

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Quick question for all you gear heads out there - I'm currently running a 2018 F3-S with a cat delete & a K&M air filter. Also run 91 octane(ethanol free) gas. What would happen if I never reflash my ecm?? Any danger of eventually burning down a piston or something?? I already know I'm running a little on the lean side. Please chime in......

How do you know your running lean ???? .... the computer shouldn't allow that if it is stock ..... neither the CAT delete nor the K & N filter nor using 91 Octane will give you any performance increase ..... the Spyder computer system controls how the engine performs ..... The only way you can improve performance is by changing the ECM ...... Mike :thumbup:

 

[2dogs]

If your running lean you will be getting limp modes. Whatever code you get will tell you where you're running lean.

 

[stu]

I believe the factory maps the ecu lean to meet emission laws.hence some flat spots at certain times.over in aus i wouldnt run 91 octane in my spyder,thats lawn mower fuel.but your fuel may be different. A remap will allow more power and let the motor run sweeter with better economy,thats if you can resist twisting the throttle.
Imho

 

[Peter Aawen]

I believe the factory maps the ecu lean to meet emission laws.hence some flat spots at certain times.over in aus i wouldnt run 91 octane in my spyder,thats lawn mower fuel.but your fuel may be different. A remap will allow more power and let the motor run sweeter with better economy,thats if you can resist twisting the throttle.
Imho

Our Aussie 91 RON (Research Octane Rating) 'lawn mower fuel' is basically comparable with US 87 gas, cos in the USA they use an Average Octane rating (IIRC, RON+MON/2) - so our Aussie 87 almost matches their 85; our 95 almost matches their 91; and our 98 is almost the same as their 95..... you gotta compare the apples with the apples, or it'll get all confusulated!!

As for resisting twisting the throttle after an ECU re-mapping - it's more rewarding in the fuel economy stakes IF you can resist that twisting urge, but it's AWFUL HARD to do that.... :banghead: It doesn't matter which power plant you have, our Spyder engines really come alive after a re-map/upgrade; and not only is it a joy to twist the throttle & open them up a liddle bit or a lottle, if you hold them back they really seem to strain at the leash and just WANT to be let free to run on right out to the (now raised) red line!! hyea: :yes: :2thumbs:

 

[troop]

You'll be fine. Better with a PV3 or ECU flash, but fine never the less.

 

[Lew L]

Chiming in here------ Crack open that wallet and get the flash---- The :spyder2: should have come from the factory this way with that extra 15 to 20 hp. Should have come with many other things as OEM but I digress.

Lew L

 

[AY4B]

No one is saying having a flash is necessary or required. If you are happy with your engine output, more power to you. Or maybe I shouldn't have said that last line. LOL

 

[T.P.]

What would happen if I never reflash my ecm??

Everyone who did will be going around you like your standing still. Talking to Coleman at Wick-It last Fall for a stage 1 flash your only getting a 5/6 HP gain.
your stock redline is 8100 rpm and he wanted to increase that to 8600 rpm. He said if I wasn't up shifting to redline I was missing out on a whole lot.

T.P.

 

[308gunner]

By having the flash done...your bike is no longer running lean....you already have the delete pipe and filter..with that your bike is running leaner..because you're getting even more AIR.....but...not more fuel...you need more FUEL!!!..the tune resolves that issue...the pros of having it done outweighs the cons..I suggest going stage II

Tech tip: you stated you're running a cat delete and if it has a baffle in it, remove it...the tune needs to breathe...

You're going to love the tune... believe it.

 

[PMK]

By having the flash done...your bike is no longer running lean....you already have the delete pipe and filter..with that your bike is running leaner..because you're getting even more AIR.....but...not more fuel...you need more FUEL!!!..the tune resolves that issue...the pros of having it done outweighs the cons..I suggest going stage II

Tech tip: you stated you're running a cat delete and if it has a baffle in it, remove it...the tune needs to breathe...

You're going to love the tune... believe it.

Initially the engine may operate towards a leaner setting. As the fuel management relearns the setup, provided it stays within limits and does not trigger a fault code, the computer will bring the air / fuel ratio to factory settings.

The computers ability to do this can allow more fuel burn and increased power, but not near what a remap is might do.

 

[PMK]

Everyone who did will be going around you like your standing still. Talking to Coleman at Wick-It last Fall for a stage 1 flash your only getting a 5/6 HP gain.
your stock redline is 8100 rpm and he wanted to increase that to 8600 rpm. He said if I wasn't up shifting to redline I was missing out on a whole lot.

T.P.

Simply depends...if you bought your Spyder as a racer, then yes, for those that are not pushing the machine, stock might be fine. A sportbike it is not. Simple math can calculate pounds per horsepower. An F3 with a rider and fuel is about 1000 pounds. On a good tune on a good day, lets say the Spyder makes 135hp. 1000/135=7.4 lbs/hp.

For comparison, a 600 pound sportbike making 160hp comes in at 3.75 lbs/hp. Adding in the rider and fuel gets us 800 pounds. Still comes in at 5.0 lbs/hp.

 

[finsfanscott]

Here's a little bit about combustion chemistry:

Running rich or lean is determined by how much excess oxygen is in the exhaust after combustion but before the catalyst. That's why emissions controlled engines have an O2 sensor.

Engines with a 3 way catalyst (most cars and emissions controlled vehicles) need to run with almost zero O2 in the exhaust. This is because it is easier for the materials in the catalyst to combine with free Oxygen than combine with Carbon Monoxide (CO) or other Nitrides of Oxygen (NOx), so we don't want any free O2 in the exhaust.

So the set up from the factory will be for zero excess O2.

Peak combustion temperatures (and peak efficiency/horsepower) come with an engine running slightly lean, at about 2% excess O2. Because fuel is relatively easy to get to the cylinder (bigger injectors or longer duration time) most power increases come from getting more AIR to the cylinder and letting the computer inject more fuel. The stock map will have some tolerance built in to allow for this, but not major air induction increases like a turbocharger or similar. So that K&N filter (or even no filter) is not going to allow significantly more air in the cylinder.

A low restriction air filter and no catalyst will allow more air through, as the whole system is less restrictive. This may allow a couple % more airflow, and well within the stock computer's ability.

Horsepower is measured by Torque x RPM. Same torque at higher RPM = more power. Most ECU reflashes raise the RPM limiter. So 115hp at 8100 RPM = 122hp at 8600rpm. Combine that with allowing the engine to run a little lean (2% excess O2) and the slightly increased airflow, and you'll get a few more hp.

So a long way of saying you won't run lean with the stock ECU, but if you want a true hp increase you'll need a flash and be prepared to wind it out.

Hope this makes sense, and happy to discuss further. I am a mechanical engineer who spent significant time on natural gas and diesel emissions testing/mapping.