P280A/P0730 codes causing a head scratcher - anyone shed some light?

[F3VE]

Hey guys, I have a 2018 F3 Spyder and a bit of back story. An idiot cut me off in traffic which caused me to jump a curb. I had no real damage but took it to the shop anyway. They inspected my bike, changed my tires, inspected my rims and alignment, and all check out. A week later I got a E Reverse light Neutral and the Check Engine Light blinking on the dash. Pulled the code, which was P0730, so back to the shop. They figured it was now the gear position sensor, so they replaced it, but that didn’t fix it. So, they called BRP. After that, they said they double checked all the proper connections and replaced the ECM per BRP's instruction. That did not fix it either, so they double checked the wheels again, replaced the rotors, checked the speed sensors on the wheels, and still no go. Now they are waiting on BRP to get back to them. In the meantime, I wanted to see if anyone else has had this issue or maybe can shed some light on this head scratcher?

Thanks

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Hey guys, I have a 2018 F3 Spyder and a bit of back story. An idiot cut me off in traffic which caused me to jump a curb. I had no real damage but took it to the shop anyway. They inspected my bike, changed my tires, inspected my rims and alignment, and all check out. A week later I got a E Reverse light Neutral and the Check Engine Light blinking on the dash. Pulled the code, which was P0730, so back to the shop. They figured it was now the gear position sensor, so they replaced it, but that didn’t fix it. So, they called BRP. After that, they said they double checked all the proper connections and replaced the ECM per BRP's instruction. That did not fix it either, so they double checked the wheels again, replaced the rotors, checked the speed sensors on the wheels, and still no go. Now they are waiting on BRP to get back to them. In the meantime, I wanted to see if anyone else has had this issue or maybe can shed some light on this head scratcher?

Thanks

I think you need another dealer.... I don't think they are telling you the truth .... They just happened to have an "ECU" on hand?! ... I don't think so! .... BRP told them to replace it without having them send the ECU back to BRP for testing? .... I don't think so! .... Someone here will run the codes and tell you what they mean... :gaah:..... JMHO ..... Mike :thumbup:

 

[pegasus1300]

which side of the Spyder jumped the curb?

 

[Peter Aawen]

Dunno if this'll help much.... :dontknow:

Code P280A - Module ECM

• Clutch slope Low limit exceeded;
• Wrong oil used in engine;
• Clutch is worn out/overheated/glazed engine - torque estimation is faulty

• Verify the correct oil type/spec is used;
• Verify that engine is running on all cylinders;
• Reline the clutch;
• Replace engine oil & clutch pack.

Code P0730 - Module ECM

• Incorrect gear ratio;
• Gear info message from ECM is different from the calculated gear in TCM (using revs & vehicle speed).

• Check for ECM fault.
• BUDS

 

[F3VE]

I think you need another dealer.... I don't think they are telling you the truth .... They just happened to have an "ECU" on hand?! ... I don't think so! .... BRP told them to replace it without having them send the ECU back to BRP for testing? .... I don't think so! .... Someone here will run the codes and tell you what they mean... :gaah:..... JMHO ..... Mike :thumbup:

No they had to order it now I don’t know if they sent the old one in to be tested I’ll have to ask. This has been about a month long process as well..

 

[F3VE]

which side of the Spyder jumped the curb?

The right side

 

[F3VE]

I will most definitely mention this, I know the oil is ok. Dealer changed it on last maintenance. I’m thinking the culprit came from dodging the deranged drinker and me jumping the curb. That’s when the issues started. Bike was running fine before then...

 

[F3VE]

right

 

[F3VE]

2018 F3 with GBPS issues & code P0730 - any Help?

I have a 2018 Spyder F3 that's getting the P0730 error code. I did the EMC Reintialization & also relearnt the gears, then went ahead & replaced the GBPS and repeated the same process. When connected to BUDS, P0730 code said Active but it cleared and the bike seemed fine, but when I test rode it the dash displayed E and flashed N and R. I cleared the code and test rode it again, only shifting to 1st gear from Neutral, and the same code popped up again. Dealer says the verified wires and connections are good. My question - is there something else that can cause the GBPS to not read properly or cause that code? Also, I had a service done a month ago, clutches, oil change, and fluids top off.
Any help would be great thanks.

 

[bikerchris1270]

I have a 2018 Spyder F3 that's getting the P0730 error code. I did the EMC Reintialization & also relearnt the gears, then went ahead & replaced the GBPS and repeated the same process. When connected to BUDS, P0730 code said Active but it cleared and the bike seemed fine, but when I test rode it the dash displayed E and flashed N and R. I cleared the code and test rode it again, only shifting to 1st gear from Neutral, and the same code popped up again. Dealer says the verified wires and connections are good. My question - is there something else that can cause the GBPS to not read properly or cause that code? Also, I had a service done a month ago, clutches, oil change, and fluids top off.
Any help would be great thanks.

Can Am has little to be desired when trying to find theory of operation. Looking at the wiring schematic, the Gear box position sensor (Hall Effect) sends information to the ECM for the engine. Then via the 2-wire communication link to the TCM where voltage is applied to the shift solenoids.
The GBPS conveys the position of the shift drum. So, if that signal is hampered from being received by the ECM... a code would be displayed.
Closely look at the wiring harness from the GBPS to the ECM. Check the PIN terminals (Female end) for proper pin tension connection at harness connector. Maybe also check for good ground connections... easily overlooked. The shop manual has very basic checks, not very thorough.
The final step in the diagnostic routine is to replace the transmission... WTF?

I feel your frustration on this one.

 

[Snowbelt Spyder]

Hmmm. I had a whole write up ready to go and then I read your previous posts. You posted about all of this in June. The shop was working on this. You got a new sensor, new ECM, got all the resets done and the harness checked, and the problem still wasn’t fixed. Last, they were waiting for BRP to provide an answer. So, what was it?

So, what’s all this? You’re making it sound like this just happened and that you’re doing all the work yourself. No mention of June. Is this still the original problem or a second occurrence after it was fixed last time?

Nobody can help you if you don’t give the whole story. You’ll just get a repeat of what you already know.

Edit: Peter has merged the June thread into this January thread. Maybe it messes with searching - I don’t know - but merging messes with my overall point. Don’t hide the salami.

 

[Rd_Runner]

IAW the Cam Spyder F3 service manual, Code P0730 means the reported position is NOT plausible. Most of the time this error is from a bad Gear Position Sensor.
If the shop replaced it, I would have them check the reverse shift actuator and its linkage physical alignment. It sticks down at an angle and the mounting plate is very thin metal.
I have actually put my hands on the mounting plate on my F3 LTD and I can tell you it would bend very easily if it contacted the curb.
If it got bent, this could affect the physical alignment of the actuator and or travel of the mechanical linkage, thus creating the P0730 code. Here are snips of drawings from the Service manual.

The first one illustrates the angle the mounting plate hangs down relative to the main frame. The second shows kind of an exploded view of the mounting plate and actuator.




Mike

 

[Peter Aawen]

.....

Edit: Peter has merged the June thread into this January thread. Maybe it messes with searching - I don’t know - but merging messes with my overall point. Don’t hide the salami.

But unless you know the WHOLE story Doug, new threads that only tell us the latest part of an ongoing or an Owner induced problem can at the very least, be really difficult for others to provide/contribute anything useful!! :shocked:

I was looking back thru my notes on the problems I've encountered on my Spyder and those of others I've helped with, and I kept on running into the same few causes for this particular code coming up - damaged or clogged tone wheels; oversized/mismatched tires, particularly large rear tires, often also teamed with small front tires; &/or trying to make a different sized rear sprocket run properly on a Spyder that came with 'the other' rear sprocket size.... My notes suggest that it could be the number of wheel rotations reported to the ECM means the Gear info message calculated by the ECM ends up being too much different from the calculated gear recorded in the TCM (a calculation which AFAIK, uses engine revs, gear selection, the 'OEM sprocket & wheel size, & the indicated vehicle speed). AND, my notes also show that often, Spyders with these issues would seemingly run fine for some time (albeit not usually too long! ), then 'something' (like hitting a big bump or doing a burn-out ) would trigger the next spate of similar issues rearing their ugly head. :banghead:

So, I think it's important that at least the June thread and this January thread should be combined, even if simply for continuity's sake in following the progress of F3VE's battle with this particular code/issue, and I hafta ask:

Are you still running 20" rims F3VE, or even just non-standard tire sizes that are outside the 'known to work' 165/50R15 -185/45R16 front range &/or the 205/65R15 - 225/65R15 rear range?? :dontknow:

If you are, then I'd guess that a big part of your ongoing problem is going to be one of those issues raised &/or discussed above or in the earlier posts of this now merged thread concerning your ongoing issues with this code.... Maybe this bit is why you're still getting this code kicking up every now & then:

• Incorrect gear ratio;
• Gear info message from ECM is different from the calculated gear in TCM (using revs & vehicle speed).

Or maybe it's something discussed in this even earlier thread:

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?129959-2018-F3-20in-wheel-install

Or even something here:

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?130089-Abs-vss-fault-codes

But it's beginning to look to me that there's a good possibility that all of your ongoing problems with this particular code juuust might be related to you running too much bigger rims &/or tires F3VE, or maybe to something you've done in an attempt to make it possible to do that, even if just for a short time... but I'm really just guessing?! :dontknow:

 

[F3VE]

Hmmm. I had a whole write up ready to go and then I read your previous posts. You posted about all of this in June. The shop was working on this. You got a new sensor, new ECM, got all the resets done and the harness checked, and the problem still wasn’t fixed. Last, they were waiting for BRP to provide an answer. So, what was it?

So, what’s all this? You’re making it sound like this just happened and that you’re doing all the work yourself. No mention of June. Is this still the original problem or a second occurrence after it was fixed last time?

Nobody can help you if you don’t give the whole story. You’ll just get a repeat of what you already know.

Edit: Peter has merged the June thread into this January thread. Maybe it messes with searching - I don’t know - but merging messes with my overall point. Don’t hide the salami.

yes this is the same issue. The shop couldn't find a fix for the gobs issue so one of my buddies are helping troubleshoot the issue. I'd thought I start a new post being this one was a bit old

 

[F3VE]

But unless you know the WHOLE story Doug, new threads that only tell us the latest part of an ongoing or an Owner induced problem can at the very least, be really difficult for others to provide/contribute anything useful!! :shocked:

I was looking back thru my notes on the problems I've encountered on my Spyder and those of others I've helped with, and I kept on running into the same few causes for this particular code coming up - damaged or clogged tone wheels; oversized/mismatched tires, particularly large rear tires, often also teamed with small front tires; &/or trying to make a different sized rear sprocket run properly on a Spyder that came with 'the other' rear sprocket size.... My notes suggest that it could be the number of wheel rotations reported to the ECM means the Gear info message calculated by the ECM ends up being too much different from the calculated gear recorded in the TCM (a calculation which AFAIK, uses engine revs, gear selection, the 'OEM sprocket & wheel size, & the indicated vehicle speed). AND, my notes also show that often, Spyders with these issues would seemingly run fine for some time (albeit not usually too long! ), then 'something' (like hitting a big bump or doing a burn-out ) would trigger the next spate of similar issues rearing their ugly head. :banghead:

So, I think it's important that at least the June thread and this January thread should be combined, even if simply for continuity's sake in following the progress of F3VE's battle with this particular code/issue, and I hafta ask:

Are you still running 20" rims F3VE, or even just non-standard tire sizes that are outside the 'known to work' 165/50R15 -185/45R16 front range &/or the 205/65R15 - 225/65R15 rear range?? :dontknow:

If you are, then I'd guess that a big part of your ongoing problem is going to be one of those issues raised &/or discussed above or in the earlier posts of this now merged thread concerning your ongoing issues with this code.... Maybe this bit is why you're still getting this code kicking up every now & then:

• Incorrect gear ratio;
• Gear info message from ECM is different from the calculated gear in TCM (using revs & vehicle speed).

Or maybe it's something discussed in this even earlier thread:

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?129959-2018-F3-20in-wheel-install

Or even something here:

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?130089-Abs-vss-fault-codes

But it's beginning to look to me that there's a good possibility that all of your ongoing problems with this particular code juuust might be related to you running too much bigger rims &/or tires F3VE, or maybe to something you've done in an attempt to make it possible to do that, even if just for a short time... but I'm really just guessing?! :dontknow:

yes I had the the big wheels on at the time of the incident but we put the factory wheels back on and the exact same code pop up upon test ride

 

[F3VE]

IAW the Cam Spyder F3 service manual, Code P0730 means the reported position is plausible. Most of the time this error is from a bad Gear Position Sensor.
If the shop replaced it, I would have them check the reverse shift actuator and its linkage physical alignment. It sticks down at an angle and the mounting plate is very thin metal.
I have actually put my hands on the mounting plate on my F3 LTD and I can tell you it would bend very easily if it contacted the curb.
If it got bent, this could affect the physical alignment of the actuator and or travel of the mechanical linkage, thus creating the P0730 code. Here are snips of drawings from the Service manual.

The first one illustrates the angle the mounting plate hangs down relative to the main frame. The second shows kind of an exploded view of the mounting plate and actuator.


View attachment 206476

Mike

Thanks for the info. Oddly enough my buddy was back working on it today and he said that the reverse actuator locked up on him and the bike wouldn't shift into reverse any more. He already placed the part on order; once it's replaced, we will check the angle of the mounting plate; and I will update to tell you if it fixed the GBPS issue as well. Fingers crossed.

 

[Peter Aawen]

yes I had the the big wheels on at the time of the incident but we put the factory wheels back on and the exact same code pop up upon test ride

Yep, once you've got that code from something like over-sized wheels, in my experience it'll take a full-on BUDS Reset to clear that issue; possibly even a new ECM and a re-flash/re-learn back to all the original settings for that particular model/bike. :banghead:

BRP seem to have gone well out of their way to make it very difficult to run any tire/rim combo that has a rolling diameter anything much more than about 1"/25mm from OEM - and the wheel alignment really doesn't like going anything more than about the same variation! They seem to have embedded hidden references to those settings in all sorts of obscure places to this end, so that it's not just a straightforward swap & then update a few settings type of task, but at least a major undertaking if not a complete re-program (or removal! ) of the entire operating system! :lecturef_smilie:

If you do want to run bigger rims & tires successfully for the long term without these sorts of issues cropping up every now and then on a seemingly randomly triggered basis, then basically, it seems you need to 'throw everything in the way of computer control &/or oversight out '; all the VSS, ECM, TCM, ABS, and other settings and modules out; and then restart from scratch, with NONE of that stuff (including the engine & transmission management! ) enabled or even connected to the wiring harness!! :gaah:



Altho, maybe it's just been a damaged Reverse actuator all along?? :dontknow:

Just Sayin'! :bdh:

 

[Jetfixer]

I, too, suspect the reverse actuator will clear this issue...

 

[Rd_Runner]

Quick update to my post above (I already edited the post)....A Code P0730 means the reported position is NOT plausible.

My apologies for leaving out the NOT.

I am guessing the GBPS is reporting a false state (transmission shift position did happen or did not travel to a correct position).

If the GBPS has been replace I am guessing you have one of the following issues:
1. the linkage is binding (due to a bent mount); 2. The actuator is not moving the linkage (due to a bad actuator); 3. you have a broken wire in the actuator circuit. In automotive wiring, the wire is a multi-strand conductor. this gives the wire flexibility. It is possible to break multiple strands. The circuit can provide then voltage, but due to the multiple broken strands, not provide sufficient current to move the actuator. Look very carefully at the harness, connectors and the linkage/actuator alignment. A good approach would be to put an oscilloscope on the wire harness at the actuator. There should be a nice square wave pulse sent to the actuator when shift to Reverse and back to neutral. I know most techs will not have the equipment nor the knowledge to do this.

Replacing the actuator may fix the problem. If the problem remains after replacing the actuator, it is most likely item 1 or 3 above.


Mike