OEM vs car tires on Spyder 2014+ RT; let's consolidate the advice in one place

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

TIRES !!!!!

I just picked up my rear tire and wheel from the local Can-Am dealer. The tire is a General Altimax which they mounted and balanced for $40.

The service manager had returned from the BRP dealers' show where he was in a discussion with a BRP engineer and a couple other dealers when the car tire issue came up. Apparently, this engineer was only concerned about the replacement tire having similar adhesion qualities to the OEM and not differing from the OEM too much in terms of inflated diameter, as this has been known to throw VSS codes. The dealer (from Texas) said he has had a couple of customers come in with VSS codes which were traced to the customer having car tires (the brand and size not mentioned); nothing would clear the codes until they put an OEM tire on the bike.... This is pure unadulterated BS if this is even marginally true ... then how come NONE of my 3 spyders which all had Car type tires for most of their lives ....NEVER threw a VSS code in 75,000+... miles The amount of horse-pucky that some of these BRP folks SPEW ... makes me wish that, if they LIE, their nose grows like it did for Pinocchio :banghead::banghead: ...

My service manager just wanted me to be aware of this and asked that before I go on any long ride I first ride 100 miles locally so that if a problem arose with the VSS I wouldn't be surprised and would be close enough for them to look into it right away. He was very interested in knowing how my experience with the car tire worked out because apparently there is a dealer forum where this is a hot topic and he wanted to provide some relevant input.

This is just an FYI that neither BRP or the dealers apparently are ignoring this issue or taking the easy way out of refusing to deal with a customer who has non-OEM tires on their Spyder.

....My answer is in RED above .... Mike :thumbup:

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

TIRES

JC's post pretty much covers it all Jack. :dontknow:

And no matter what BRP or Kenda or even you might prefer us to believe & despite the 'let's see how many of the suckers we can fool' label stuck on the sidewall, for all intents & purposes & I strongly suspect even by legal definition in your country as well as here in mine, the OE Spec Kenda tires that they put on our Spyders are light-weight/lightly constructed Passenger CAR tires! :lecturef_smilie:

Peter I agree with you 99.999999 % of the time , but on this I don't, in respect that the Kenda Spyder Tire would end up a Disaster on any Auto made today ...... Mike :thumbup::thumbup:

 

[UtahPete]

This is pure unadulterated BS if this is even marginally true ... then how come NONE of my 3 spyders which all had Car type tires for most of their lives ....NEVER threw a VSS code in 75,000+... miles The amount of horse-pucky that some of these BRP folks SPEW ... makes me wish that, if they LIE, their nose grows like it did for Pinocchio

....My answer is in RED above .... Mike :thumbup:

Mike, take it easy man before you hurt yourself :joke: I was just relaying what my service manager heard from another dealer (not the BRP rep). He was just saying that IF I have trouble with VSS it might be because of the tire. I told him this tire (the Altimax) is the same one as on my other bike and I don't have VSS issues with that one.

He is just curious is all; he really would like to have a good outcome to relay back to his dealer's forum.

Remember, not everyone reads this forum and is aware of the need to mount a proven car tire; who knows what the tires were that threw codes...

 

[Peter Aawen]

UtahPete, it's not just that none of Mike's Spyders have ever thrown a codes because they were running car tires, there's also my Spyder & there's also the THOUSANDS of other Spyders out there running proper car tires successfully for 100's of thousands of miles all up & all entirely without throwing codes or upsetting the VSS in any way that puts paid to the myth about real car tires being an issue on our Spyders!! :gaah:

And yeah Mike, I see what you are saying, but there's no denying that for all intents & purposes the OE Spec Kendas are made exactly like all other passenger car tires, just a whole lot lighter & weaker!! They are not IN ANY RESPECT a proper 'motorcycle tire', while their construction IS entirely that of a passenger car tire EXCEPT that they are so dangerously lightweight & seemingly made with very little (if any) care or quality control! And yes, you are exactly right about the dangers of putting them under a car - they'd certainly fit, in fact they ONLY fit on car rims, but they just aren't capable of doing the job of carrying a car safely; heck, IMO they barely do the job of carrying our Spyders, let alone really do it 'safely'! :shocked:

 

[UtahPete]

UtahPete, it's not just that none of Mike's Spyders have ever thrown a codes because they were running car tires, there's also my Spyder & there's also the THOUSANDS of other Spyders out there running proper car tires successfully for 100's of thousands of miles all up & all entirely without throwing codes or upsetting the VSS in any way that puts paid to the myth about real car tires being an issue on our Spyders!! And yeah Mike, I see what you are saying, but there's no denying that for all intents & purposes the OE Spec Kendas are made exactly like all other passenger car tires, just a whole lot lighter & weaker!! They are not IN ANY RESPECT a proper 'motorcycle tire', while their construction IS entirely that of a passenger car tire EXCEPT that they are so dangerously lightweight & seemingly made with very little (if any) care or quality control! And yes, you are exactly right about the dangers of putting them under a car - they'd certainly fit, in fact they ONLY fit on car rims, but they just aren't capable of doing the job of carrying a car safely; heck, IMO they barely do the job of carrying our Spyders, let alone really do it 'safely'! :shocked:

Yeah, I understand. I just thought you'd find it interesting that my dealer really wanted to understand this better. We may have lots of anecdotal evidence here on SpyderLovers.com but somehow that info isn't getting over to the dealer forum and he'd like to rectify that.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

HURTING ONESELF

This is pure unadulterated BS if this is even marginally true ... then how come NONE of my 3 spyders which all had Car type tires for most of their lives ....NEVER threw a VSS code in 75,000+... miles The amount of horse-pucky that some of these BRP folks SPEW ... makes me wish that, if they LIE, their nose grows like it did for Pinocchio

Mike, take it easy man before you hurt yourself :joke: I was just relaying what my service manager heard from another dealer (not the BRP rep). He was just saying that IF I have trouble with VSS it might be because of the tire. I told him this tire (the Altimax) is the same one as on my other bike and I don't have VSS issues with that one.

He is just curious is all; he really would like to have a good outcome to relay back to his dealer's forum.

Remember, not everyone reads this forum and is aware of the need to mount a proven car tire; who knows what the tires were that threw codes...

Pete if you thought my post was a rebuke or chastisement of you .......:banghead: ...you have that completely Wrong ..... I know ( from your wording ) WHO was throwing the BS so my large red type was not directed at you .... It was the " less than honest or informed " people who were throwing the BS .............. mis-understandings , this is why I DON'T TEXT ........ Mike :thumbup:

 

[UtahPete]

Pete if you thought my post was a rebuke or chastisement of you ...you have that completely Wrong ..... I know ( from your wording ) WHO was throwing the BS so my large red type was not directed at you .... It was the " less than honest or informed " people who were throwing the BS .............. mis-understandings , this is why I DON'T TEXT ........ Mike :thumbup:

Don't worry, I didn't take it personally.

 

[UtahPete]

Specified tire size per manual

For reference sake, on this thread, here are the tire sizes per my 2014RT manual

Front tire; 165/55R15

Rear tire: 225/50R15

Could one of our tire experts explain the three numbers before and two numbers after the slash xxx/xx and what would be acceptable alternative sizes? Thanks.

 

[HankD]

For reference sake, on this thread, here are the tire sizes per my 2014RT manual

Front tire; 165/55R15

Rear tire: 225/50R15

Could one of our tire experts explain the three numbers before and two numbers after the slash xxx/xx and what would be acceptable alternative sizes? Thanks.

Well I'm no tire expert but here is a link that explains your question on what the numbers mean:
http://www.justtires.com/content/content.jsp?pageName=TireSize

I'm not sure about acceptable alternative sizes.

 

[UtahPete]

Well I'm no tire expert but here is a link that explains your question on what the numbers mean: http://www.justtires.com/content/content.jsp?pageName=TireSize I'm not sure about acceptable alternative sizes.

Tire Width is the width of the tire measured in millimeters from sidewall to sidewall. The first three-digit number in the tire size refers to the tire width. For instance, in a size P215/65 R15 tire, the width is 215 millimeters.

Aspect Ratio is the ratio of the height of the tire's cross-section to its width. The two-digit number after the slash mark in a tire size is the aspect ratio. For example, in a size P215/65 R15 tire, the 65 means that the height is equal to 65% of the tire's width. The bigger the aspect ratio, the bigger the tire's sidewall will be.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

TIRE CHART

Tire Width is the width of the tire measured in millimeters from sidewall to sidewall. The first three-digit number in the tire size refers to the tire width. For instance, in a size P215/65 R15 tire, the width is 215 millimeters.

Aspect Ratio is the ratio of the height of the tire's cross-section to its width. The two-digit number after the slash mark in a tire size is the aspect ratio. For example, in a size P215/65 R15 tire, the 65 means that the height is equal to 65% of the tire's width. The bigger the aspect ratio, the bigger the tire's sidewall will be.

This is good info ----- However you need to remember that the Chart is a mathematical formula ......... Every tire manufacturer has somewhat different products in actual production tires ..... you must check their posted dimensions , so you know EXACTLY what you getting / buying .........jmho .... Mike :thumbup:

 

[Peter Aawen]

^^^ Mike's highlighted it, but I still feel the need to really drive it home (sorry, but ignore it at your peril!) :shocked:

While the info printed on the sidewall is a good start, it is ONLY the Nominal Size for that tire as decided by the tire manufacturer, and different manufacturers often use different methods to decide what size to call their different tires!! Sometimes a manufacturer may even use different methods between their own different tire tread patterns or specialist tires! Some use the size of the basic carcass (before the tread layers of rubber are added) while others use the size of the completed tire (after the tread layers are added) and they may also use everything in between, plus there may be minor differences in tread depth & ply rating and all sorts of other things - I've seen differences of over 1" in diameter &/or width between identically size labelled tires as a result! So those Nominal Sizes are only a 'best guess' guide AT BEST!! If you are varying your fitted tire size or brand, be very careful in checking the size & DO NOT rely on the Nominal Size printed on the sidewall!! :lecturef_smilie:

So while one manufacturer/tire wearing 165/55R15 or 225/50R15 MIGHT fit your Spyder, that is NO Guarantee that any other tire wearing the same size on the sidewall will fit your Spyder as well - you really NEED to compare things like the rolling diameter or circumference of the PARTICULAR TIRE you wish to fit against those of a tire already known to fit your model Spyder, not just the nominal sizes, or you might be embarrased!! Here on this Forum, I believe we have seen reports from people running tires labelled with sizes from 205/65R15's thru to 225/65R15's on the rear & from 155/65R15's thru to 185/50R15's up front in a variety of tire brands, specs, & tread patterns without significant variations in the actual tire sizes... so I'll say it again - You really NEED to compare things like the rolling diameter or circumference of the PARTICULAR TIRE you wish to fit against those of a tire already known to fit your model Spyder, not just the nominal sizes, or you might be embarrased!! :thumbup:

 

[UtahPete]

Tire sizes differ between manufacturers; the same 'nominal' size can be different!

^^^ Mike's highlighted it, but I still feel the need to really drive it home (sorry, but ignore it at your peril!) :shocked:

Peter, I realize this, which is why I have been asking people to specify the tire make, model and size they are using and reporting on. It's also why I ask the 'tire experts' like you and Mike to be as specific as possible when recommending a tire, in the hope that others will take the hint. Just using Formoza's as an example (on a different thread), most folks who respond do not specify the model of Formoza and nobody mentioned the size they were using. Someone who I think should know better just said 'original size'.