New 17" Wheel Upgrade with Custom Wheel Adapters

[WAR209]

Well....... I ordered a set of custom hub adapters to go from our standard 3 bolt pattern to a more common 5 x 114 bolt pattern. I chose to order a 2 piece hub adapter so I wouldn't compromise the the integrity of the wheel by omitting any bolts. I also decided to go thicker than I wanted on the adapters, cause I wanted to avoid cutting the factory studs back, (which I had to do Anyways, cause the damn shop didn't exactly cut them to my spec ).

Had the wheels & rubber for weeks, but had to wait over a month to receive the adapters.

Had a few :shocked: moments & wondered if anyone could provide any advice or words of wisdom. Especially those who've upgraded the wheel package on their :spyder2:

I went with a 17" x 8" wheel with a 45 offset, with 215/35R/17 rubber. The adapter is apparently 47mm thick in itself. Took it for a short test ride yesterday & wonder if I made a HUGE mistake with this upgrade.... First, I rode over a small lump in the asphalt down the street, going about 30mph, (drive over it every time I go out & never blinked twice), & it felt like I drove over a 3inch high speed bump at 80mph. That was my first :shocked: moment. I continued to drive down the street on level ground & couldn't keep a straight line to save my life.. That was my second :shocked: moment. Saying it's more responsive in an understatement. In my opinion, it's TOO damn responsive... I turned around & just parked it... I'm wondering if I just need to get used to the new feel, or........ ...... I don't even want to say it... Anyway... Any input or advice would be appreciated.

Here's some pic's of the adapter:

Installed:

 

[Buttsy]

But they look way cool................:doorag:

 

[WAR209]

But they look way cool................:doorag:

I KNOW..................... :dontknow: It's REALLY gonna hurt if I can't figure something out. I keep going into the garage to look at it... I feel like it's the day before I'm about to put down my dog of 19 years .
I just lowered my Fox Podium shocks to about 2 turns above their lowest setting, & also let some air out the tires. They were set to about 35psi, & I set them to 25psi. I donno... I'm hoping that'll prevent it from bouncing around on the slightest bump in the road. I expected a difference in going to such a low profile tire, but that was just ridiculous..

 

[mcaccamise]

WAR209 the wheels look great on the other hand im thinking your going to be puting to much strain on your hubs and bearings with the oversized tires and wheels moving them outward changes the geomerity of the suspension in tern the handling.If your feeling that much road imput than this may be dangerous at higher speeds,looks shouldent sacrifise safty imo.
Mike

 

[Jeriatric]

:agree:

 

[SPYD1]

Be careful! You got to have control of the beast. It does look good though.

 

[MikeinGA]

Well....... I ordered a set of custom hub adapters to go from our standard 3 bolt pattern to a more common 5 x 114 bolt pattern. I chose to order a 2 piece hub adapter so I wouldn't compromise the the integrity of the wheel by omitting any bolts. I also decided to go thicker than I wanted on the adapters, cause I wanted to avoid cutting the factory studs back, (which I had to do Anyways, cause the damn shop didn't exactly cut them to my spec ).

Had the wheels & rubber for weeks, but had to wait over a month to receive the adapters.

Had a few :shocked: moments & wondered if anyone could provide any advice or words of wisdom. Especially those who've upgraded the wheel package on their :spyder2:

I went with a 17" x 8" wheel with a 45 offset, with 215/35R/17 rubber. The adapter is apparently 47mm thick in itself. Took it for a short test ride yesterday & wonder if I made a HUGE mistake with this upgrade.... First, I rode over a small lump in the asphalt down the street, going about 30mph, (drive over it every time I go out & never blinked twice), & it felt like I drove over a 3inch high speed bump at 80mph. That was my first :shocked: moment. I continued to drive down the street on level ground & couldn't keep a straight line to save my life.. That was my second :shocked: moment. Saying it's more responsive in an understatement. In my opinion, it's TOO damn responsive... I turned around & just parked it... I'm wondering if I just need to get used to the new feel, or........ ...... I don't even want to say it... Anyway... Any input or advice would be appreciated.

Here's some pic's of the adapter:

Installed:

You have changed the geometry of the front end. You now have changed your caster and camber and toe in. Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steering#Basic_geometry

 

[NancysToy]

You have also lost a lot of sidewall in the tires...sidewalls that flex to help absorb road shock. Everything you do to modify a vehicle is a trade-off. What you gain in looks or performance, you may lose in comfort and handling. Tough lesson...tough decision!

 

[D-Nice]

Nice ride bro I like the wheel you picked. Im running a similar set up with the 2 piece design and also had to cut my original studs about 1/2" im pretty sure I was one of the first to set there spyder up with after market wheels using an adaptor on this forum..I've had them for close to 4 years now and can tell you that all the differences you are experiencing are normal so to speak. You have to remember that we changed the dynamic of the bike by putting these wheels on no matter how simple it may sound. The wider tire, taller wheel, and thinner side wall all contribute to the different ride quality compared to a stock bike. I bet at highway speed you feel the bike drift side to side alot more huh? Small bumps will feel huge because you have less rubber under the wheel so you take the hit harder. I would recommend an upgraded sway bar if you dont have it already. It helped with some of the side to side sway while at speed. I just installed stage one elkas 2 days ago but havent had time to test drive it. Im hoping they also help dampen some of the sway and bumps. But bottom line is if you dont feel save then take them off. I have had mine on for 4 years with no major issues no premature wear on any of the steering or suspension parts. A year of that time has been with my aero charger turbo installed so thats more speed and torque that my bike deals with and its still sold. I would not be riding it if I thought I was in danger and I do ride it hard at times. Also I replaced the brakes stopping does decrease with the larger wheel the rolling mass is increased by alot vs stock wheel size but the upgraded brakes do help and the brake squeal is gone so thats a plus in its self. Hope this helps and if you have any more questions feel free to ask. Good luck with your ride.

 

[WAR209]

Nice ride bro I like the wheel you picked. Im running a similar set up with the 2 piece design and also had to cut my original studs about 1/2" im pretty sure I was one of the first to set there spyder up with after market wheels using an adaptor on this forum..I've had them for close to 4 years now and can tell you that all the differences you are experiencing are normal so to speak. You have to remember that we changed the dynamic of the bike by putting these wheels on no matter how simple it may sound. The wider tire, taller wheel, and thinner side wall all contribute to the different ride quality compared to a stock bike. I bet at highway speed you feel the bike drift side to side alot more huh? Small bumps will feel huge because you have less rubber under the wheel so you take the hit harder. I would recommend an upgraded sway bar if you dont have it already. It helped with some of the side to side sway while at speed. I just installed stage one elkas 2 days ago but havent had time to test drive it. Im hoping they also help dampen some of the sway and bumps. But bottom line is if you dont feel save then take them off. I have had mine on for 4 years with no major issues no premature wear on any of the steering or suspension parts. A year of that time has been with my aero charger turbo installed so thats more speed and torque that my bike deals with and its still sold. I would not be riding it if I thought I was in danger and I do ride it hard at times. Also I replaced the brakes stopping does decrease with the larger wheel the rolling mass is increased by alot vs stock wheel size but the upgraded brakes do help and the brake squeal is gone so thats a plus in its self. Hope this helps and if you have any more questions feel free to ask. Good luck with your ride.

......:banghead:

$$$'s spent, Weeks of looking for the "perfect" wheel, weeks of anxiously waiting for all the parts to arrive.. Felt like an 8yo on Christmas morning when I finally got the adapters. Was so excited to get everything installed that I didn't even care about having to cut the damn studs to mount things... Only had to cut about 1/8th of an inch, but I still did NOT want to cut, just in case THIS would happen. This REALLY bites... So adjusting shocks & psi probably wont do a good GotDam will it.....? I haven't upgraded the sway bar... but will it really make a difference? Just seems as though I'd be throwing a lot more money at the problem, with no real fix besides going back to stock.

:gaah:....... SO freakin disappointed....... I can deal with a stiffer/harder ride. I expected that much. What I can't deal with is riding down my street, on a fairly level road, & having to fight the steering so I wouldn't drift into the opposing lane.

The weather is suposed to be crappy for a few days. Once It clears up, I'll take it back out & see how I feel on a longer ride..

 

[mellowcmb]

I KNOW..................... :dontknow: It's REALLY gonna hurt if I can't figure something out. I keep going into the garage to look at it... I feel like it's the day before I'm about to put down my dog of 19 years .
I just lowered my Fox Podium shocks to about 2 turns above their lowest setting, & also let some air out the tires. They were set to about 35psi, & I set them to 25psi. I donno... I'm hoping that'll prevent it from bouncing around on the slightest bump in the road. I expected a difference in going to such a low profile tire, but that was just ridiculous..

One other thing to consider: you have just put a set of wheels and tires that were made to be put on a car. In other words, the wheel/tire setup was tested on cars which apply more pressure on the wheels. With the wheels even at 25psi, the spyder still doesn't apply enough pressure on the wheels for them to perform correctly. My suggestion is to drop the pressure down to about 16 - 18 psi and I'm sure you will notice a huge difference. It should be fine at this low pressure.
i have experience in this due to the fact that I use to own a Campagna T-Rex. A lot of us changed to aftermarket wheels and noticed that at the usual recommended psi pressure, the bike would be all over the place, especially in corners. When we realized that the pressure was too great and lowered them down to about 18psi, the performance improved greatly. I was pretty worried at first thinking that at such a low pressure that the tires would just come off, but they never did. I was constantly running the T-Rex at 90-100 mph without any issues. I say try it and see if it makes any difference in performance.
great looking bike and good choice on the wheels. Hope this helps!

 

[WAR209]

One other thing to consider: you have just put a set of wheels and tires that were made to be put on a car. In other words, the wheel/tire setup was tested on cars which apply more pressure on the wheels. With the wheels even at 25psi, the spyder still doesn't apply enough pressure on the wheels for them to perform correctly. My suggestion is to drop the pressure down to about 16 - 18 psi and I'm sure you will notice a huge difference. It should be fine at this low pressure.
i have experience in this due to the fact that I use to own a Campagna T-Rex. A lot of us changed to aftermarket wheels and noticed that at the usual recommended psi pressure, the bike would be all over the place, especially in corners. When we realized that the pressure was too great and lowered them down to about 18psi, the performance improved greatly. I was pretty worried at first thinking that at such a low pressure that the tires would just come off, but they never did. I was constantly running the T-Rex at 90-100 mph without any issues. I say try it and see if it makes any difference in performance.
great looking bike and good choice on the wheels. Hope this helps!

It's past midnight, & guess where I'm going.... Straight to my garage to drop my psi down. I know.... I'm an idiot.... But your at least giving me hope ray:

I seriously Thank you guys for that..

 

[WAR209]

D-Nice, You ever have a shop screw around with the alignment after your wheel upgrade? Just dropped the psi to about 17 like mellowcmb suggested. Will take it out as soon as I'm able, to test if that made a differenceray:. If it feels like it at least makes a dent in the issue of bouncing all over the place on the slightest bump in the road, then the other dent I need to make is the sway & drift issue. I guess I can drop a couple more $$$ on a sway bar upgrade. That'll help regardless of what wheels I ultimately end up with. After trying to read the wikipedia link that MikeinGA posted I wonder if dropping $$$ on an alignment might help.

 

[Flanker]

Couple of good points already made by others...................you've just discovered the foibles of increasing the leverage (via your adapters moving the wheels/tires outboard to the stock location) your wheels exert on your suspension; the potential detriment of drastically increasing unsprung weight vs sprung weight (if you didn't know it's commonly accepted at a 1 to 4 ratio) without proportionately altering both spring rate and compression/rebound damping to compensate for the increase in unsprung weight, vividly demonstrating how low aspect ratio tires have stiffer sidewalls vs higher aspect ratio tires, thereby improving turn in response, decreasing rim protection, while increasing ride harshness, and requiring a minimum threshold sprung weight to function properly, as well as how important understanding the theory and practical implementation of toe in/out, camber, and caster settings are to proper suspension function. BTW: They do look bitchin'. As a practical suggestion....................Bajaron seems to have a pretty good grasp on the ins and outs of Spyder suspension based on experience and technical knowledge.................you might wish to consult with him r.e. potential mitigating measures for your new "pimpin' dubs". Good luck! Oh yea...................you've succeeded in making me nervous about swapping my front tires to 185/60/14s on the stock rims. Thanks! :joke: One more thing: I take it; it the roads are never wet at "your house"? Because if they are......................you'll discover why not having fenders over your tires sucks. OK, OK.................one more, one more thing..........................the taller OAD of the new front rim/tire combination with a corresponding increase in rear rim/tire OAD has fundamentally altered the overall stance of your ride, affecting center of gravity, polar moment of inertia, weight shift on acceleration and braking, roll rate and yaw response. They still look bitchin' though.

 

[WAR209]

Couple of good points already made by others...................you've just discovered the foibles of increasing the leverage (via your adapters moving the wheels/tires outboard to the stock location) your wheels exert on your suspension; the potential detriment of drastically increasing unsprung weight vs sprung weight (if you didn't know it's commonly accepted at a 1 to 4 ratio) without proportionately altering both spring rate and compression/rebound damping to compensate for the increase in unsprung weight, vividly demonstrating how low aspect ratio tires have stiffer sidewalls vs higher aspect ratio tires, thereby improving turn in response, rim protection, while incresing ride harshness, and requiring a minimum threshold sprung weight to function properly, as well as how important understanding the theory and practical implementation of toe in/out, camber, and caster settings are to proper suspension function. BTW: They do look bitchin'. As a practical suggestion....................Bajaron seems to have a pretty good grasp on the ins and outs of Spyder suspension based on experience and technical knowledge.................you might wish to consult with him r.e. potential mitigating measures for your new "pimpin' dubs". Good luck! Oh yea...................you've succeeded in making me nervous about swapping my front tires to 185/60/14s on the stock rims. Thanks! :joke: One more thing: I take it; it the roads are never wet at "your house"? Because if they are......................you'll discover why not having fenders over your tires sucks.

:roflblack:.. Dude....... I just got done reading that damn wikipedia post. Between it, & your post, my brain grew by about 12,700 microns. I'll reach out to Bajaron, since his sway bar will likely be the sway bar of choice. As far as rain, I tend to avoid riding in it at all costs. But.... Custom fenders were definitely on the laundry list of mods, but something told me to wait till the wheels were installed & free of any "foibles".
:cheers:

 

[D-Nice]

Never had a shop look at the alignment just some simple measurements I took my self to see if things where somewhat equal for both sides witch they where. Without taking a spin on your spyder its hard to guage they level of ride quality that your bike has vs mine but I will say the ride is harder and there is some sway at speed but i do not fight the bars to go straight like your describing and im not all over the road as your saying. Perhaps they may be another issue at play here thats being missed. My psi is what the tire recommends I think its 35psi and I havent done anything else aside from what I have mentioned to help improve my ride quality. My girlfriend also has a spyder its stock and she never rides mine but the one time she did she mentioned the sway and increase vibration in the bars as a difference. I feel the sway from time to time and the vibration has just become commen place as the years have gone by I guess im just use to it being there its been a while since I rode a stock bike to compare the ride differences. The sway bar helped some but wasn't a cure all but like you said it was an improvement over the stock one regardless if it help the wheel issues or not. Your big $ has already been invested try the lower psi and perhaps the sway bar..I cant see anything else being usfull to solve the problem alside from an alignment after that. I know a few people that have done this there complaints have been the same as yours and mine but yours seem alittle bit more severe ain the way your describing them I cant see why they would be because there basically the same bike witch leads me to think something else may be going on. Let us know how the lower psi works out.

 

[DrewNJ]

That's a fairly common problem to get a squirrelly ride when making a big tire/wheel change. We used to run into this with our jeeps. We used to have to dial out quite a bit of toe.

Do a google search for "shade tree alignment" and secure a few lengths of angle iron to the wheels and check your toe.
I'm going to guess you are going to see a LOT of toe in.
It will cost you nothing but some time to check your toe.
You can use an alignment shop too, but if you take your time it's an east DIY. Just remember that if you make any changes you have to make those changes to both sides. Work slow, write down what changes you make. Also try to get some weight on it when taking measurements.

On another note, I checked the toe on my 2012 RS and it was toed OUT quite a bit from BRP......still wondering about that one...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bob Denman]

"D" mentioned alignment; I'd take a look at what you've got going on there. :thumbup: Perhaps a small adjustment might help with tracking... :shocked:
As Scotty mentioned; losing sidewall can affect how you get moved around on the bike as it hits a bump. :yikes: Try bringing your knees in against the "tank" to steady yourself a bit more; that might help!
And it does look COOL! :2thumbs:

 

[MikeinGA]

D-Nice, You ever have a shop screw around with the alignment after your wheel upgrade? Just dropped the psi to about 17 like mellowcmb suggested. Will take it out as soon as I'm able, to test if that made a differenceray:. If it feels like it at least makes a dent in the issue of bouncing all over the place on the slightest bump in the road, then the other dent I need to make is the sway & drift issue. I guess I can drop a couple more $$$ on a sway bar upgrade. That'll help regardless of what wheels I ultimately end up with. After trying to read the wikipedia link that MikeinGA posted I wonder if dropping $$$ on an alignment might help.

The only problem with alignment on the Spyder is that there is no adjustments for caster or camber only toe in. You may want to talk to some one in a automotive frame shop. Working with steering geometry is an art in it self.

 

[WAR209]

The only problem with alignment on the Spyder is that there is no adjustments for caster or camber only toe in. You may want to talk to some one in a automotive frame shop. Working with steering geometry is an art in it self.

Well that Sucks.... I plan to take it in as soon as I can & have a shop take a look at the alignment. Hopefully toe in adjustments in itself will at least make a difference. Also sent bajaron a PM to get his input as well.

Will report back as soon as I can test things out. Again... tx for all the input everyone is giving.