Learning "The Touch"

[PapaHotel]

I haven't learned "The Touch" yet, but after 3000 miles on my Spyder, I finally learned that to go right steer right, and to go left steer left. Having spent 50 years of enjoying two-wheeled motorcycling, I had a lot to unlearn....

 

[Easy Rider]

I'm so glad you have learned the intricacies of the Spyder's ....especially in the short time you have been operating one :yikes::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack: ............. Annnnnnnnnd you have also mastered the ART of negativity to a degree that is only shown by a FEW others on this Forum :clap::clap::clap:.........LOVE ....Mike :thumbup:

Slipping on your new image a bit there.

Back to "If I can't discuss the issue at hand like an adult, I will resort to sarcastic personal insults."
Not nice.

 

[missouriboy]

Well, you are somewhat correct, except the problem is that centrifugal force is an "apparent" force, whereas centripetal is real!
<snip>
But are we sure we want to trust a University Physics Professor? After all, they do spend a lot of time contemplating the inexplicable:roflblack:!

Gee, I dunno about all that. :dontknow:

All I was getting at is that the two different words mean exactly opposite directions. Exactly, not somewhat.

I guess centripetal is real in that gravity is the only manifestation I can think of. But when you swing a bucket of water in a vertical circle over your head, something keeps that water from falling out. :sour:

 

[Peter Aawen]

I know that Wikipedia isn't always the greatest reference source, but here's a pretty handy description from there of the forces acting on passengers in a car, a description that can readily be adapted/applied to what occurs when we are ryding our Spyders....

Vehicle driving round a curve

A common experience that gives rise to the idea of a centrifugal force is encountered by passengers riding in a vehicle, such as a car, that is changing direction. If a car is traveling at a constant speed along a straight road, then a passenger inside is not accelerating and, according to*Newton's second law of motion, the net force acting on him is therefore zero (all forces acting on him cancel each other out). If the car enters a curve that bends to the left, the passenger experiences an apparent force that seems to be pulling him towards the right. This is the fictitious centrifugal force. It is needed within the passenger's local frame of reference to explain his sudden tendency to start accelerating to the right relative to the car—a tendency which he must resist by applying a rightward force to the car (for instance, a frictional force against the seat) in order to remain in a fixed position inside. Since he pushes the seat toward the right, Newton's third law says that the seat pushes him toward the left. The centrifugal force must be included in the passenger's reference frame (in which the passenger remains at rest): it counteracts the leftward force applied to the passenger by the seat, and explains why this otherwise unbalanced force does not cause him to accelerate.[7]*However, it would be apparent to a stationary observer watching from an overpass above that the frictional force exerted on the passenger by the seat is not being balanced; it constitutes a net force to the left, causing the passenger to accelerate toward the inside of the curve, as he must in order to keep moving with the car rather than proceeding in a straight line as he otherwise would. Thus the "centrifugal force" he feels is the result of a "centrifugal tendency" caused by inertia.[8]*Similar effects are encountered in aeroplanes and*roller coasters*where the magnitude of the apparent force is often reported in "G's".

So the way I understand all this is that what the ryder & passenger on a Spyder are experiencing that feels like it wants to throw them off the bike during cornering is centrifugal force; while all the combined actions of ryder & machine, wheels etc that work to stop that 'throw me off the spyder' effect are (collectively) the centripital force...

Hopefully that lot might help someone? Anyone?.... Aaah whatever! :dontknow:

As for 'the touch', I reckon that it's a pretty good term for the feeling you get when it finally all comes together & you reach that level of skill that means every now & then you can 'become one' with the machine AND the road & you start carving those twisties perfectly (or at least nearly so)!! It's something that's been recognised for a while, it's also been called 'the craft' or 'the ride', 'the drive', & a heap of other terms by many & varied riders & drivers, pilots, etc but it is (at least IMHO) something that is more keenly felt by riders - & I say that most respectfully also as a driver/pilot who believes he may have achieved that state in a few different wheeled & even non-wheeled machines on more than one occasion! Whatever it is, whatever vehicle you are in/on/driving/riding/piloting when you achieve it, or even however you achieve it, once it happens ONCE, you WILL know it, & you will henceforth be forever seeking that exalted state once again! :2thumbs:

Sooo, Go For It Mark! If you've felt it once, & it sounds like you have, then you're gonna be hooked forever & chasing it for longer! :thumbup:

 

[missouriboy]

...This is the fictitious centrifugal force...

Something came to me in the night...

If centrifugal force is fictitious, then all those odometer numbers caused by an SE5 transmission* are, a priori, also fictitious!
So I guess I better get busy and correct some things about my OLD Spyder below, right? :yikes:

(* You know, the one with the centrifugal clutch.)

 

[Wrongway]

Well we have about 700 miles on the Spyder now. I am learning what I will call "The Touch." For me, the Spyder requires a little more finesse when going through curves than a two-wheeler. Friday, my wife and I rode 94 miles, part of which was in some fairly curvy roads. I am beginning to develop "The Touch" when maneuvering. As I went through the curves I began to sense the proper pressure on the handlebars that translated into a smooth turn with no wavering. I have begun to learn what it feels like when I have the proper input applied. Several times I stopped turning when I felt, what I will call, the proper pressure on my hands. It was not the amount of turn applied, but how the grips felt in my hands when I knew I was in the sweet spot in the turn. I will describe it as feeling solid in my hands.

I am enjoying learning the feel of our Spyder. For me, much of the fun I experience on a new machine is learning how it feels when the turn is entered into perfectly, coming out of the turn and applying the throttle to accelerate out just right. Learning the feel of the brakes so that stops are smooth with no excessive g's. In short, learning to precisely control the bike without having to think. There is joy in control. I'm getting there and having fun on the journey.

Great to hear that you're putting miles on your new Spyder and enjoying it. You're certainly learning "The Touch" faster than I did.
We're still loving our Spyder and using it a lot more than we ever used the 2 wheeler.

 

[Peter Aawen]

Something came to me in the night...

If centrifugal force is fictitious, then all those odometer numbers caused by an SE5 transmission* are, a priori, also fictitious!
So I guess I better get busy and correct some things about my OLD Spyder below, right? :yikes:

(* You know, the one with the centrifugal clutch.)

Ooh, I like that! :clap: :2thumbs:

But you are so naughty! :roflblack: :roflblack:

:thumbup:

 

[cruisinTX]

I don't know if you've read my take . . . . With the right combination of lean, speed, and sharpness of curve a two wheeler will go around the curve on its own, with no push/pull needed on the handlebar. . . . . .

None of that is correct, especially the part about "no push/pull needed". Without input to the handlebars, there is no proper turning of a motorcycle. You must apply counter-steering to properly turn a bike at speed. There are some who have been taught to lean to make a bike turn but that is incorrect and pretty much useless compared to counter-steering.

This is one of many videos featuring Kieth Code, one of the top instructors in the world.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...73B176FA8DD6FDDF711573B176FA8DD6&&FORM=VDRVRV

 

[mark4Jesus]

As for 'the touch', I reckon that it's a pretty good term for the feeling you get when it finally all comes together & you reach that level of skill that means every now & then you can 'become one' with the machine AND the road & you start carving those twisties perfectly (or at least nearly so)!!....Whatever it is, whatever vehicle you are in/on/driving/riding/piloting when you achieve it, or even however you achieve it, once it happens ONCE, you WILL know it, & you will henceforth be forever seeking that exalted state once again! :2thumbs:

Sooo, Go For It Mark! If you've felt it once, & it sounds like you have, then you're gonna be hooked forever & chasing it for longer! :thumbup:

Great explanation for what I was trying to say! It is that search where, as is said regarding aircraft, "You don't get in it, you strap it on!" That search for the "oneness" between you and the machine. If a person truly loves flying or riding, when they feel it happen, it is thrilling. A rush that, as you described Peter, "you will henceforth be forever seeking that exalted state once again."

 

[mark4Jesus]

Something came to me in the night...

If centrifugal force is fictitious, then all those odometer numbers caused by an SE5 transmission* are, a priori, also fictitious!
So I guess I better get busy and correct some things about my OLD Spyder below, right? :yikes:

(* You know, the one with the centrifugal clutch.)

Whoa! Interesting application of Latin.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

None of that is correct, especially the part about "no push/pull needed". Without input to the handlebars, there is no proper turning of a motorcycle. You must apply counter-steering to properly turn a bike at speed. There are some who have been taught to lean to make a bike turn but that is incorrect and pretty much useless compared to counter-steering.

True. Counter-steering is required to start the turn. But once you are in the turn and leaning no effort is needed on the handlebar to maintain the turn if you are at the sweet spot, especially if the road is banked. Then again, counter-steering is required to straighten out at the end of the turn.

 

[ARtraveler]

Can I have an Excedrin please? :roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack: