Hello, just replaced my original Kenda rear tire on a 2020 F3 at 12,200 miles. Probably could have finished the year, but have a few trips planned! So went with the Kenda Kanine to see if they are going to hold up? No weights needed and running at 24lbs, was recommended by the shop that installed the tire. Will keep you all updated.
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Kenda Kanine rear tire trial!
- Thread starter Don60
- Start date
It will probably wear the centre out at that.
We are now running 20 psi all round on our F3s and F3L.
I used an IR thermometer to check the tread and sidewall temps and they are even across the tread, with no more than one degree difference from either side or in the centre. Sidewall temps were twenty degrees lower than tread temps, so 20psi seems about right.
Running the fronts at 20 gives excellent front end response when pushing hard into and out of corners, and reduces the tendency for the VSS to kick in. It also makes the steering on our 2015 F3S much lighter.
BajaRon
Well-known member
I am not so sure the center will wear out at 24 psi. The center wears out on the original Kenda's no matter what tire pressure you run. Because there isn't enough strength in the tread plies to prevent centrifugal force from ballooning the tire out in the middle. The Kanine has a stronger tread ply and I believe they will wear much more evenly. We shall see. I think 24 psi is a good place to start.
Do NOT run rear Kanines at 24 psi! Try 20 psi one-up.
My wife has already worn out a rear Kanine at 17,000 miles. 24 psi is way too high!
We were running 23 psi for 15,000 miles and it wore terribly in the centre - I posted photos several weeks ago - I dropped it to 20 but it did not help the wear. The shoulders would have still had at least 4mm of tread while the centre was bare by the time it was replaced.
From what I have seen, based on wear patterns, they are using the same carcass with perhaps a different tread compound, if people think they grip better. I can't say because I am still running and enjoying OEM Kendas on our S.
We ride hard in the corners and fast (8 to 10 over) on the highways, which means 75 to 85 mph, at which speeds a tyre carcass could easily balloon out in the centre if it is not well designed. I don't think these are well designed in that sense.
My wife has already worn out a rear Kanine at 17,000 miles. 24 psi is way too high!
We were running 23 psi for 15,000 miles and it wore terribly in the centre - I posted photos several weeks ago - I dropped it to 20 but it did not help the wear. The shoulders would have still had at least 4mm of tread while the centre was bare by the time it was replaced.
From what I have seen, based on wear patterns, they are using the same carcass with perhaps a different tread compound, if people think they grip better. I can't say because I am still running and enjoying OEM Kendas on our S.
We ride hard in the corners and fast (8 to 10 over) on the highways, which means 75 to 85 mph, at which speeds a tyre carcass could easily balloon out in the centre if it is not well designed. I don't think these are well designed in that sense.
SeniorRider
Member
Hard to argue against data.
I assume the other brands of car tires on the rear do not do this.
I assume the other brands of car tires on the rear do not do this.
BE CAREFUL running lower than recomended pressures in KENDA tires!!
Hey guys, word of warning!!
RUNNING LOWER THAN RECOMMENDED PRESSURES IN SPYDER/RYKER SPEC KENDA TIRES MAY NOT BE SAFE!! :lecturef_smilie:
It's pretty safe in car tires that have been built to carry much heavier loads because they are made strongly enough to handle it; but the Spyder/Ryker spec Kendas run sidewall & tread thread plies that are about 1/3rd thinner (& therefore weaker!) than the thread plies in most car tires, AND the steel belts in the tires use wires that are thinner/weaker too; PLUS the 'rubber' itself is thinner, more pliable, & less sturdy than the 'rubber' normally used in a car tire!! :shocked:
All of which adds up to the Kenda Tires that are touted as being spec'ced for Spyders/Rykers ACTUALLY NEEDING to run at pressures that are fairly close to those recommended on the tire placard/in the manual or you risk a catastrophic failure!! :banghead:
Sadly, that means that the wide & pliable rear tire WILL wear out in the centre of the tire tread more quickly than on the edges, simply because as the revs increase the sidewall plies & the tread plies/belts aren't strong enough to stop the tread from 'bagging' or 'throwing out' in the middle of the tread due to the centrifugal forces. This means that if you're travelling any faster than about 20 mph then you're onky running on the 2 or so inch wide strip in the middle; but because the tire is so lightly constructed, that's gonna happen regardless of the pressure you run it at! In fact, running it at just 'a little' lower pressure than that recommended may even increase the throw out & therefore the wear in the centre strip; while running it at anything much more than 10-15% less than the recommended pressure is likely to allow the sidewalls to flex even more, causing over-heating in the carcass as you ride, and eventually destroying the tire's internal construction - and you really don't want THAT to occur while you're ryding at speed!! :yikes:
So if you are running Kenda tires on your Spyder or Ryker, I'd STRONGLY SUGGEST that you ALWAYS run pressures that are at or close too those recommended for the tire! Because of their lightweight construction, they REALLY NEED that much air in them to allow them to work properly & carry the load, and that 'centre of tread wear' is simply another unavoidable consequence of the tire's construction! :gaah: . That's why so many of us run stronger & heavier car tires, where the lower pressures we suggest are appropriate for the load but aren't likely to be a concern due to thor heavier tire's stronger & more robust construction! :thumbup:
Still, it's your Spyder/Ryker, your tires, so you can do what you like - I'm just saying that running lower than recommended pressures in a lightly constructed Kenda tire is NOT a great idea, and could potentially cause a catastrophic failure in a tire built that lightly!
Hey guys, word of warning!!
RUNNING LOWER THAN RECOMMENDED PRESSURES IN SPYDER/RYKER SPEC KENDA TIRES MAY NOT BE SAFE!! :lecturef_smilie:
It's pretty safe in car tires that have been built to carry much heavier loads because they are made strongly enough to handle it; but the Spyder/Ryker spec Kendas run sidewall & tread thread plies that are about 1/3rd thinner (& therefore weaker!) than the thread plies in most car tires, AND the steel belts in the tires use wires that are thinner/weaker too; PLUS the 'rubber' itself is thinner, more pliable, & less sturdy than the 'rubber' normally used in a car tire!! :shocked:
All of which adds up to the Kenda Tires that are touted as being spec'ced for Spyders/Rykers ACTUALLY NEEDING to run at pressures that are fairly close to those recommended on the tire placard/in the manual or you risk a catastrophic failure!! :banghead:
Sadly, that means that the wide & pliable rear tire WILL wear out in the centre of the tire tread more quickly than on the edges, simply because as the revs increase the sidewall plies & the tread plies/belts aren't strong enough to stop the tread from 'bagging' or 'throwing out' in the middle of the tread due to the centrifugal forces. This means that if you're travelling any faster than about 20 mph then you're onky running on the 2 or so inch wide strip in the middle; but because the tire is so lightly constructed, that's gonna happen regardless of the pressure you run it at! In fact, running it at just 'a little' lower pressure than that recommended may even increase the throw out & therefore the wear in the centre strip; while running it at anything much more than 10-15% less than the recommended pressure is likely to allow the sidewalls to flex even more, causing over-heating in the carcass as you ride, and eventually destroying the tire's internal construction - and you really don't want THAT to occur while you're ryding at speed!! :yikes:
So if you are running Kenda tires on your Spyder or Ryker, I'd STRONGLY SUGGEST that you ALWAYS run pressures that are at or close too those recommended for the tire! Because of their lightweight construction, they REALLY NEED that much air in them to allow them to work properly & carry the load, and that 'centre of tread wear' is simply another unavoidable consequence of the tire's construction! :gaah: . That's why so many of us run stronger & heavier car tires, where the lower pressures we suggest are appropriate for the load but aren't likely to be a concern due to thor heavier tire's stronger & more robust construction! :thumbup:
Still, it's your Spyder/Ryker, your tires, so you can do what you like - I'm just saying that running lower than recommended pressures in a lightly constructed Kenda tire is NOT a great idea, and could potentially cause a catastrophic failure in a tire built that lightly!
Adventurer
Member
Hey guys, word of warning!!
RUNNING LOWER THAN RECOMMENDED PRESSURES IN SPYDER/RYKER SPEC KENDA TIRES MAY NOT BE SAFE!! :lecturef_smilie:
It's pretty safe in car tires that have been built to carry much heavier loads because they are made strongly enough to handle it; but the Spyder/Ryker spec Kendas run sidewall & tread thread plies that are about 1/3rd thinner (& therefore weaker!) than the thread plies in most car tires, AND the steel belts in the tires use wires that are thinner/weaker too; PLUS the 'rubber' itself is thinner, more pliable, & less sturdy than the 'rubber' normally used in a car tire!! :shocked:
All of which adds up to the Kenda Tires that are touted as being spec'ced for Spyders/Rykers ACTUALLY NEEDING to run at pressures that are fairly close to those recommended on the tire placard/in the manual or you risk a catastrophic failure!! :banghead:
Sadly, that means that the wide & pliable rear tire WILL wear out in the centre of the tire tread more quickly than on the edges, simply because as the revs increase the sidewall plies & the tread plies/belts aren't strong enough to stop the tread from 'bagging' or 'throwing out' in the middle of the tread due to the centrifugal forces. This means that if you're travelling any faster than about 20 mph then you're onky running on the 2 or so inch wide strip in the middle; but because the tire is so lightly constructed, that's gonna happen regardless of the pressure you run it at! In fact, running it at just 'a little' lower pressure than that recommended may even increase the throw out & therefore the wear in the centre strip; while running it at anything much more than 10-15% less than the recommended pressure is likely to allow the sidewalls to flex even more, causing over-heating in the carcass as you ride, and eventually destroying the tire's internal construction - and you really don't want THAT to occur while you're ryding at speed!! :yikes:
So if you are running Kenda tires on your Spyder or Ryker, I'd STRONGLY SUGGEST that you ALWAYS run pressures that are at or close too those recommended for the tire! Because of their lightweight construction, they REALLY NEED that much air in them to allow them to work properly & carry the load, and that 'centre of tread wear' is simply another unavoidable consequence of the tire's construction! :gaah: . That's why so many of us run stronger & heavier car tires, where the lower pressures we suggest are appropriate for the load but aren't likely to be a concern due to thor heavier tire's stronger & more robust construction! :thumbup:
Still, it's your Spyder/Ryker, your tires, so you can do what you like - I'm just saying that running lower than recommended pressures in a lightly constructed Kenda tire is NOT a great idea, and could potentially cause a catastrophic failure in a tire built that lightly!
Could someone point me to a controlled scientific study of this ballooning of the tread portion of a tire carcass, please?
BLUEKNIGHT911
Sadly Passed Oct 2024 - RIP
I saw some vids during my " accident investigation training ", but I think they were proprietary and don't know where or if they are available. They did show what happens to the tread that a weak tire carcass will cause. ..... Mike :thumbup:
Use a temp gun to work out what is happening with your tyre pressures
Hi Peter.
I'm sure your warning is well intentioned, but it looks a bit over the top.
I've done over 3,000 miles at 20 psi in the back tyre without problems, some of it in temperatures over 100F, and much of it at 75 and 85 mph (110 to 135 kph). Let's bring some science into this.
Here is a rundown of the temps on the tread and sidewalls - what do you think?
Front tyre:
And here is the rear tyre:
The outer tread areas are hotter because they are doing most of the work at these pressures. If the tyre is running critically flat the sidewall temps will go up. They have not in this case.
The rear tyre temps will always be higher while driving because there is more power transmitted through them than in the front, which are just experiencing rolling resistance most of the time.
I've used an IR temp gun before to establish tyre pressures on a trailer, unladen and loaded. It works. They use tyre temps across the tread in racing to help sort out handling and suspension parameters.
Seriously, I think you should delete your comment or at least take out the ridiculously bold type because your comments are ill-advised and uninformed.
Hi Peter.
I'm sure your warning is well intentioned, but it looks a bit over the top.
I've done over 3,000 miles at 20 psi in the back tyre without problems, some of it in temperatures over 100F, and much of it at 75 and 85 mph (110 to 135 kph). Let's bring some science into this.
Here is a rundown of the temps on the tread and sidewalls - what do you think?
Front tyre:
And here is the rear tyre:
The outer tread areas are hotter because they are doing most of the work at these pressures. If the tyre is running critically flat the sidewall temps will go up. They have not in this case.
The rear tyre temps will always be higher while driving because there is more power transmitted through them than in the front, which are just experiencing rolling resistance most of the time.
I've used an IR temp gun before to establish tyre pressures on a trailer, unladen and loaded. It works. They use tyre temps across the tread in racing to help sort out handling and suspension parameters.
Seriously, I think you should delete your comment or at least take out the ridiculously bold type because your comments are ill-advised and uninformed.
Unlike most here, (Blueknight911 being the only exception I know of so far) I spent quite a few years studying this sorta stuff and then a fair few years actually applying that theoretical knowledge in the real world; and in short, here's what I think....
But like I said earlier, it's your Spyder/Ryker, & your tires, so you can do what you like - but I wouldn't be running Kenda tires like those, especially the rear tire, at the sort of pressures you are suggesting because it's dangerous and risks catastrophic tire failure. I'm glad you've survived so far, & I hope that continues.... but truly, you are risking yourself & the road users around you needlessly! That's what I think.
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Adventurer
Member
Unfortunately in this internet age people throw out unsubstantiated statements all the time, which I refuse to accept cart blanche. To give yourself better standing I would appreciate it if you would list your credentials that give you authoritative standing on this subject and a link to published, peer reviewed studies wherein you applied your”theoretical knowledge” so that I personally can make an informed decision on this entire subject area. Thank you Peter.
opcorn: Tires and oil, always a powder keg of reading!
Yeah, right, and I'll just post my bank acct details & the combination for the floor safe at home at the same time! :banghead: . Been there, done that, learnt the hard way, ain't happening again! :sour: . I suggest that instead, if you have any doubts about what I've said, then you take the time & effort to do some research on it; or you could even just do a search on my previous posts on this subject here, read them, and then you can decide if you want to pay any attention to them at all!
. I'm happy enough either way, but I'll still put advice out there that I feel might help some &/or warnings about things that people may be suggesting others do that I know may be unsafe - and the joy of the internet is that you get to either use or ignore all or any of it as you will! 
hyea:I've posted this before, but I guess it warrants a reminder - I try to help people on this & a few other Forums based upon my knowledge, skills, experiences, and learning - hopefully, some might benefit from it, even if just a little. If anyone wants to ignore what I've put out there, that's fine by me too - go right ahead; ignore it, but don't argue about things you don't want to use &/or even try to understand! Genuine questions, I'll certainly try to answer, but hasn't this epic been long enough? I've got more if you really want it - I've done a number of studies, dissertations, a thesis or two, and a whole bunch of essays on just this subject... but I'm sorry, none of them have been 'peer reviewed' on facebook or other social media! :gaah:
Adventurer
Member
I thought I ask very nicely for mor info, but It’s been my experience that when someone gets backed into a corner they come out swinging. Like Ronald Regan said, trust but verify. Not going to argue but I’m also not putting any credence into your tire argument without knowing you have the credentials to back it up. JMHOYeah, right, and I'll just post my bank acct details & the combination for the floor safe at home at the same time! :banghead: . Been there, done that, learnt the hard way, ain't happening again! :sour: . I suggest that instead, if you have any doubts about what I've said, then you take the time & effort to do some research on it; or you could even just do a search on my previous posts on this subject here, read them, and then you can decide if you want to pay any attention to them at all!
I've posted this before, but I guess it warrants a reminder - I try to help people on this & a few other Forums based upon my knowledge, skills, experiences, and learning - hopefully, some might benefit from it, even if just a little. If anyone wants to ignore what I've put out there, that's fine by me too - go right ahead; ignore it, but don't argue about things you don't want to use &/or even try to understand! Genuine questions, I'll certainly try to answer, but hasn't this epic been long enough? I've got more if you really want it - I've done a number of studies, dissertations, a thesis or two, and a whole bunch of essays on just this subject... but I'm sorry, none of them have been 'peer reviewed' on facebook or other social media! :gaah:
BLUEKNIGHT911
Sadly Passed Oct 2024 - RIP
" it's looking worn - Except for Local riding " ..... I can't even Guess what that statement means, and How would you determine this ????? .... Mike :thumbup:
BLUEKNIGHT911
Sadly Passed Oct 2024 - RIP
Peter's been on this site for 8 years and me 9 years .... weve' both answered this question more than a few times. .... To the best of my knowledge I haven't found anything about Your Expertise that would qualify you to question Peter's. .... So could you enlighten us all, as to your qualifications. .... Tank you in advance ...... Mike :thumbup:
Peteoz
Well-known member
Mike, I think Milryder left a couple of words out……I believe he was saying that the Kanine was too worn after 6000m to do anything but local riding……..but this is very odd in itself, as many of the Kanine reviews thus far are sitting at around 10,000m and still going strong. :dontknow: ……. Obviously, Milfryder is either treating the tyre differently to others or he has got a bum one from Kenda (not unheard of
hyea: )Pete
Peteoz
Well-known member
Adventurer, over the course of my career, I have had Mining Engineers, Chemical Engineers and Electrical Engineers working for me and with me. Several of them have had post graduate degrees and a couple have had MBAs and had released published studies. The two MBAs turned out to be of little practical use in the reality of the mining and construction industries, and in fact were detrimental to the success of the company and were politely moved on. Formal credentials mean little. However, someone who has passion, intelligence and practicality is invaluable in adding value to a company.
I don’t know Peter’s qualifications (and don’t need to
), but as a practical person myself, it does not matter to me if he has NO formal qualifications or peer reviewed papers. I have never found any of his recommendations to be far off the mark when applied in the real world. He has well and truly done his homework over the years, and I am quite confident in taking his recommendations at face value, before testing them myself in the real world. There are very few others to who I would offer the same latitude.As Peter says, his comments are simply recommendations that you can adopt or refuse, but you can rest assured that he has done the hard yards. Do your own research, reach your own conclusions, but don’t rely on qualifications, published papers and peer reviews to justify whether a person should be believed. I have read several “papers” and “peer reviews” from “qualified” experts, claiming the earth is flat :dontknow: (my apologies if you are a flat earther :thumbup: ). Experience has shown me, many times, that that approach is fraught with danger.
Pete
Adventurer
Member
I don’t know which question you are referring too answering many times the expert qualifications question or the ballooning tread question. Look forward to your clarification.
In my short time on this board I’ve read several times that you are/were an accident investigator, in which case you’ve surely testified many times and you know full well you can’t make a fact statement without being able to back it up or a defense attorney will tear you a new one.
The old adage that if you state something enough times it becomes a fact doesn’t fly with me. I believe in the adage show me the money. That’s all I ask so I don’t know why you’re getting all butt hurt over my request.
Me I have no qualifications in the tire world but I don’t need expert credentials to ask questions and a data source.
My word I ask a simple question and I’m attacked… by a moderator no less. You can bet if I ever make a statement of fact and someone one wants a source I’ll readily and happily provide same.
