Idler and what the magnifying glass saw.

[Road-Kill]

Sorry about starting a new thread but I think the topic has transformed into a DIY idler fix-it thread.

I went out into my garage and removed the nylon roller off my BRP idler. As previously stated I'm hovering around 10,000 miles on my dealer installed BRP idler.

I felt as do many that the roller is cheap quality and two bearings should be used and I agree.....BUT.

I cleaned up my well used BRP roller and noticed stamped on the BEARING (its not a bushing!) with a magnifying glass it read " JAPAN 60601 NSK". It has one bearing located in the center and was in excellent condition, no play!. The nylon roller likewise was in excellent condition. The bolt and washers used to hold everything together are heat treated high strength steel.

I'm not bashing those looking to go two bearings as I will probably do the same BUT I found my extremely well used BRP idler to be in excellent condition. I must not lie or Santa will not bare any gifts!

I took pictures and will let you be the judge, don't beat me up for showing what I found.

 

[BajaRon]

Sorry about starting a new thread but I think the topic has transformed into a DIY idler fix-it thread.

I went out into my garage and removed the nylon roller off my BRP idler. As previously stated I'm hovering around 10,000 miles on my dealer installed BRP idler.

I felt as do many that the roller is cheap quality and two bearings should be used and I agree.....BUT.

I cleaned up my well used BRP roller and noticed stamped on the BEARING (its not a bushing!) with a magnifying glass it read " JAPAN 60601 NSK". It has one bearing located in the center and was in excellent condition, no play!. The nylon roller likewise was in excellent condition. The bolt and washers used to hold everything together are heat treated high strength steel.

I'm not bashing those looking to go two bearings as I will probably do the same BUT I found my extremely well used BRP idler to be in excellent condition. I must not lie or Santa will not bare any gifts!

I took pictures and will let you be the judge, don't beat me up for showing what I found.

It is a sad day when the truth can get you in trouble. Hopefully, your (Possibly rare) experience will be embraced as a simple telling of the facts. hyea:

 

[bscrive]

I was going to change out my wife's BRP nylon roller to an aluminum roller, but I was told by the machinist that the nylon roller runs much cooler than an aluminum one would. The excessive heat from an aluminum roller may ruin the belt. I opted to get two really good quality bearing on the original roller. They will be in Monday.
we are going on a week long ride in a few weeks and I don't want any issues with the tensioner to come up.

 

[Road-Kill]

It is a sad day when the truth can get you in trouble. Hopefully, your (Possibly rare) experience will be embraced as a simple telling of the facts. hyea:

I was going to change out my wife's BRP nylon roller to an aluminum roller, but I was told by the machinist that the nylon roller runs much cooler than an aluminum one would. The excessive heat from an aluminum roller may ruin the belt. I opted to get two really good quality bearing on the original roller. They will be in Monday.
we are going on a week long ride in a few weeks and I don't want any issues with the tensioner to come up.

Hey Ron. That is why I stated "dont beat me up".....lol

bscrive. I will probaby do the same as feedback from those do-it-yourselfers post their findings. If they post that there is no added benefit at reducing vibration then I'll stick with my BRP till it fails. I just dont see the point in doing this just to acheive the "warm fuzzy feeling" of an extra bearing. Since I found out that these are not made in China garbage I'm feeling better. My dealer was (so far) correct in the info he gave me regarding my BRP idler.

The "wobbly" or looseness of the BRP idler is NOT bad bearings, its designed (maybe poorly) to do that. I don't know, only more time will tell.
BUT......if I can get my ride smoother I'll slam in an extra bearing or buy Docs :thumbupif he'll talk to me again:yikes

 

[Road-Kill]

I was going to change out my wife's BRP nylon roller to an aluminum roller, but I was told by the machinist that the nylon roller runs much cooler than an aluminum one would. The excessive heat from an aluminum roller may ruin the belt. I opted to get two really good quality bearing on the original roller. They will be in Monday.
we are going on a week long ride in a few weeks and I don't want any issues with the tensioner to come up.

I wouldnt do anything like that just before a long trip. My thoughts.

 

[bcer960]

I am still very interested in all this, please keep us informed as to any new info....

Ray

 

[BajaRon]

Hey Ron. That is why I stated "dont beat me up".....lol

bscrive. I will probaby do the same as feedback from those do-it-yourselfers post their findings. If they post that there is no added benefit at reducing vibration then I'll stick with my BRP till it fails. I just dont see the point in doing this just to acheive the "warm fuzzy feeling" of an extra bearing. Since I found out that these are not made in China garbage I'm feeling better. My dealer was (so far) correct in the info he gave me regarding my BRP idler.

The "wobbly" or looseness of the BRP idler is NOT bad bearings, its designed (maybe poorly) to do that. I don't know, only more time will tell.
BUT......if I can get my ride smoother I'll slam in an extra bearing or buy Docs :thumbupif he'll talk to me again:yikes

I don't use a belt tensioner on my Spyder. Though I'm not against it. I even thought about building one myself a long time ago using Delrin. I really like that product. But others came up with what looked to be a good design and I don't want to jump on anyones toes. Aluminum looks neat. But a nylon product will run cooler. And it is lighter as well allowing it to react to the belt more quickly. Adding a 2nd bearing will increase the weight a fair amount but I'm not sure that will affect anything.

I love these DIY projects! I've been known to change things just for the sake of changing them. Though I usually expect some improvement or benefit out of it.

I suppose BRP may have built some wobble into their product so that it self aligns.

 

[Road-Kill]

I don't use a belt tensioner on my Spyder. Though I'm not against it. I even thought about building one myself a long time ago using Delrin. I really like that product. But others came up with what looked to be a good design and I don't want to jump on anyones toes. Aluminum looks neat. But a nylon product will run cooler. And it is lighter as well allowing it to react to the belt more quickly. Adding a 2nd bearing will increase the weight a fair amount but I'm not sure that will affect anything.

I love these DIY projects! I've been known to change things just for the sake of changing them. Though I usually expect some improvement or benefit out of it.

I suppose BRP may have built some wobble into their product so that you don't have to have the tensioner perfectly aligned.

The wobble "might" be a result as you say to keep it aligned with the belt. I'm waiting with anticipation feedback from those with 2 bearings done on their own or with Docs. I know Can Am is not releasing any info on their idler failure (if any) as no manufacterer ever does. Dealerships likewise will never disclose anything for their own reasons. This is why I am very skeptical of anyone who "knows" of these failures yet never discusses "where" they get this info. I only know as a fact what I personally experienced. I'm going to purchase a new BRP idler from my dealer and play with it ....(add two bearings). If I get it good enough I'll insall it, ride it and post my thoughts.

 

[Bob Denman]

The fact that you found an NSK Bearing is good news: they DO make some high quality stuff... :thumbup:
Thanks for the honest opinion! :clap:

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

IDLER WHEEL FOR BELT VIBES

:banghead::banghead::banghead:.....and then there's ME & a few other's who don't use any of these devices and have NO BELT VIBES ....... we just lowered the belt tension until the VIBES dis-appeared ......just another possibility ...... and Thanks for your research ......... Mike :thumbup:

 

[Firefly]

Hey Ron. That is why I stated "dont beat me up".....lol

bscrive. I will probaby do the same as feedback from those do-it-yourselfers post their findings. If they post that there is no added benefit at reducing vibration then I'll stick with my BRP till it fails. I just dont see the point in doing this just to acheive the "warm fuzzy feeling" of an extra bearing. Since I found out that these are not made in China garbage I'm feeling better. My dealer was (so far) correct in the info he gave me regarding my BRP idler.

The "wobbly" or looseness of the BRP idler is NOT bad bearings, its designed (maybe poorly) to do that. I don't know, only more time will tell.
BUT......if I can get my ride smoother I'll slam in an extra bearing or buy Docs :thumbupif he'll talk to me again:yikes

The problem with 'sticking with the BRP one until it fails' is that when it fails you may end up damaging your belt. It happened to Mark (Hotglue) on his way to Valcourt. Tore up the side of his belt.

Wackydan also had a failure but it was caught in time for us to tie it up and avoid belt damage.

The tensioner is a great idea, but poorly made and prone to failure.

 

[Firefly]

:banghead::banghead::banghead:.....and then there's ME & a few other's who don't use any of these devices and have NO BELT VIBES ....... we just lowered the belt tension until the VIBES dis-appeared ......just another possibility ...... and Thanks for your research ......... Mike :thumbup:

What model Spyder?

My vibration was WORSE with a loose belt and got better with a tighter belt. 2015 F3.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

BAD VIBES GONE

What model Spyder?

My vibration was WORSE with a loose belt and got better with a tighter belt. 2015 F3.

08 GS , 11 RSS, & my 2014 RT ........ no vibes, all belts under BRP official spec recommendations .... no bearing failures either ....... Mike :thumbup:

 

[40Xshooter]

The "wobbly" or looseness of the BRP idler is NOT bad bearings, its designed (maybe poorly) to do that. I don't know, only more time will tell.
BUT......if I can get my ride smoother I'll slam in an extra bearing or buy Docs :thumbupif he'll talk to me again:yikes

Is it a fact that the idler was designed to wobble and feel a bit loose? I have mine zip tied up because I thought it was going bad! If that's the case, I'll "let it ride" so to speak!

Please confirm!
Thanks!!

 

[Road-Kill]

Is it a fact that the idler was designed to wobble and feel a bit loose? I have mine zip tied up because I thought it was going bad! If that's the case, I'll "let it ride" so to speak!

Please confirm!
Thanks!!

I thought my BRP idler was going bad so at my 9,300 service I had it inspected. Its under warranty as is the belt if its damaged but my dealer said its fine. I took it off yesterday (as pictured) and it looks new. It appears to be designed to "wobble". I do not know why it was designed that way as I am not an engineer. It appears very well made once you examine it off the bike. I am not an engineer and I'm not going to pretend to understand the dynamics associated with engineering (my degree is not in engineering). The BRP idler "appears" very well made and after 10,000 miles on mine it still looks new. We have a problem with people (myself included) looking at the "wobble" and jumping to conclusions and also flames being fanned by someone trying to cash in on this fear.

This "epic" BRP idler failure might be true but where is this info coming from?

25,000 bloggers on this forum and a very very tiny handful say it has failed because they feel it "wobbles" and not cause it ripped off and damaged the belt? ......really?

I don't have proof but this whole scenario has the stench of fearmongering by someone trying to cash in, I want proof of this "epic" idler failure and nobody offers it. (NOBODY!)

 

[Road-Kill]

The problem with 'sticking with the BRP one until it fails' is that when it fails you may end up damaging your belt. It happened to Mark (Hotglue) on his way to Valcourt. Tore up the side of his belt.

Wackydan also had a failure but it was caught in time for us to tie it up and avoid belt damage.

The tensioner is a great idea, but poorly made and prone to failure.

One person experienced damage and unknown if it was the idler that caused it. It might have been the belt being damaged then damaged the idler.

How do you know the idler is poor quality and prone to failure?

Wackydan noticed the wobbly effect and tied up a perfectly functioning idler?

 

[BajaRon]

:banghead::banghead::banghead:.....and then there's ME & a few other's who don't use any of these devices and have NO BELT VIBES ....... we just lowered the belt tension until the VIBES dis-appeared ......just another possibility ...... and Thanks for your research ......... Mike :thumbup:

I would say that the great majority of Spyder owners do not have any belt vibration device mounted. Some because they don't know about these rollers. Some because they don't care about the vibration and some because they don't have any noticeable vibration at all.

I get a bit of vibration in my Spyder belt. But nothing that bothers me. Most of the motorcycles I've owned vibrated much more than my Spyder (though not due to a drive belt).

But for those who are annoyed by the vibration. One of these devices is probably the best option. It would be nice if the BRP unit was not as failure prone as has been reported. The wobbling wheel is not necessarily a bad thing. It is very possible that BRP engineered this into the system. It would be a good idea to take a brand new unit and see if it comes with the wobble. Or, if the wobble is something that develops with use.

Eventually, the truth will come out. I just hope peoples minds are not set in stone when this happens.

 

[Roadster Renovations]

I made a comparison over 5 months ago and the play is there out of the package with a brand new one. Here is my "unscientific" video. My personal opinion is that the play is causing the failures.

 

[Firefly]

08 GS , 11 RSS, & my 2014 RT ........ no vibes, all belts under BRP official spec recommendations .... no bearing failures either ....... Mike :thumbup:

Vibrations were much less of an issue with GS,RSS and RT.... hence why this thread is in the F3 area and discussing vibrations and tensioners on F3 models. I went through bearings on my 08 GS like crazy.. changed them with every rear tire change which was 8,000 - 12,000 miles. Had one fail on the road, got home okay but that was enough to decide to spend the extra $20 on bearing and just swap them with every tire change.

Didn't have that issue on the RT.

 

[Firefly]

One person experienced damage and unknown if it was the idler that caused it. It might have been the belt being damaged then damaged the idler.

How do you know the idler is poor quality and prone to failure?

Wackydan noticed the wobbly effect and tied up a perfectly functioning idler?

The idler for sure caused it. I saw photos. Mark knows what he's talking about and BRP covered all the damage.

Mine seemed okay but I decided to upgrade to Docs as it is better quality.
WackyDan's was chirping, a sure sign a bearing going. Bearing fail, with the bouncing this one does it's no shock they fail within 10,000 miles.

It's not that difficult to look at something and tell if it's cheaply made or not. The Smooth Spyder ones are very beefy and well made. Docs seems well made as well. The BRP and Airwing one.... not so much.

Not sure why you're being so defense of this $50 idler. I liked it too when it came out and thought it was great, but opinions change based on the experience you have and what you see happen to others. You might get 50,000 miles from your idler with no problems or it might fail tomorrow. As much as I ride I don't care to take the chance and have it tear up a belt like it did to Mark.

Don't do an upgrade if you don't want, but I would keep an eye and ear on it.