Hand operated Brake

[sddinnh]

Is there any reason we go to all this trouble to hook up a mechanical unit to the foot brake and don't simply splice the handle bar hydraulics right into the brake system somewhere between the footbrake and the ABS unit or is the ABS unit incorporated into the fookbrake?

 

[ARCTIC]

Is there any reason we go to all this trouble to hook up a mechanical unit to the foot brake and don't simply splice the handle bar hydraulics right into the brake system somewhere between the footbrake and the ABS unit or is the ABS unit incorporated into the fookbrake?

A few reasons just based on observations from installing two hand brakes. 1) I don't think the handbrake is going to pump enough fluid to operate the brakes on all three wheels. 2) you would not maintain the electric ABS and likely anger the computer system

 

[Chupaca]

Interesting..!!

what would happen if you applied the foot brake and sent the pressure back to the hand brake..?? Would have to have some interesting plumbing work there. But someone will come up with some other solution. So far the system works well and the hand brake offered helps those that need or want it...:dontknow:

 

[sddinnh]

what would happen if you applied the foot brake and sent the pressure back to the hand brake..?? Would have to have some interesting plumbing work there. But someone will come up with some other solution. So far the system works well and the hand brake offered helps those that need or want it...:dontknow:

That could be handled with a simple in-line check valve in the new circuit as could back feeding the food brake with the handbrake. As long as the ABS unit is not build into the foot brake unit, it couldn't tell where the pressure was coming from, nor would it care. As to size, there are plenty of handbrake units off of 2 wheelers that operate 3 brakes (2 front and 1 rear). BMW's and Honda's both have linked braking systems that operate both the front and rear brakes so they should have large enough reservoirs to handle the Spyder system.

 

[ARCTIC]

That could be handled with a simple in-line check valve in the new circuit as could back feeding the food brake with the handbrake. As long as the ABS unit is not build into the foot brake unit, it couldn't tell where the pressure was coming from, nor would it care. As to size, there are plenty of handbrake units off of 2 wheelers that operate 3 brakes (2 front and 1 rear). BMW's and Honda's both have linked braking systems that operate both the front and rear brakes so they should have large enough reservoirs to handle the Spyder system.

I assumed is was the amount of fluid pumped with each pull off the lever was insufficient not the resivour's capacity
If someone can figure this out I'm very interested. The currently available kit is very high quality and very well constructed and the only reason that I am able to ride a spyder. However, I'm very interested in a system with less braking effort that achieves 100% availability of the spyder's braking capabilities. I'm willing to completely remove the foot pedal if that's the bottleneck

 

[sddinnh]

I'll have to take the panels off tonight and see if I can find the ABS unit. I've spent 40 years working in hydraulics and it seems to me like this should be achievable as long as the ABS unit is a separate unit from the rear brake assembly. Pressure into the brake system is pressure into the brake system and it shouldn't care what the source is and neither should the computer care. The whole key is how the ABS unit works and can you get pressure into the upstream side of it.

Like you, I'm slowly loosing the use of my right leg and sooner or later will have to go to a hand brake. I'm not worried about the cost, I just wondered why such a complicated solution when a simpler one might be available.

 

[ARCTIC]

I'll have to take the panels off tonight and see if I can find the ABS unit. I've spent 40 years working in hydraulics and it seems to me like this should be achievable as long as the ABS unit is a separate unit from the rear brake assembly. Pressure into the brake system is pressure into the brake system and it shouldn't care what the source is and neither should the computer care. The whole key is how the ABS unit works and can you get pressure into the upstream side of it.

Like you, I'm slowly loosing the use of my right leg and sooner or later will have to go to a hand brake. I'm not worried about the cost, I just wondered why such a complicated solution when a simpler one might be available.

The master cylinder operating a slave cylinder to move the master cylinder on the bike does create a notable amount of effort to apply the brakes and some of the breaking capabilities are lost in the process.

I look forward to hearing your analysis

 

[sddinnh]

I understand why they did it this way. Probably for two reasons. Obviously, in the first place their solution was simpler. They didn't have to figure out any of the "electronics" associated with this. Things like, you have to step on the brake to shift into first. Is this a mechanical switch or an hydraulically operated one. Secondly, it's pretty much adaptable to all years / models with simple changes to the mounting and attachment methods.

 

[ARCTIC]

Looking at the parts fiche it looks like the foot pedal only operates a master cylinder that is independent of the abs system. They really feed that thing a lot of fluid tho. There a reservoir under the seat feeding a small reservoir on the master cylinder itself. http://parts.spyder.brp.com/Index.a...efoj03h66&catalog_id=0&language_id=1&siteid=1

 

[ARCTIC]

I understand why they did it this way. Probably for two reasons. Obviously, in the first place their solution was simpler. They didn't have to figure out any of the "electronics" associated with this. Things like, you have to step on the brake to shift into first. Is this a mechanical switch or an hydraulically operated one. Secondly, it's pretty much adaptable to all years / models with simple changes to the mounting and attachment methods.

The brake switch is a mechanical external switch connected to the brake pedal

 

[sddinnh]

Well, I think the first thing to do is to study the diagrams until we're really sure we understand the system and then move on from there. This is, after all, the brake system we're talking about so we don't want to change it unless we're sure it's going to work.