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Ethanol blend gasoline

B

barb36jack31

New member
This week Florida went to a 10% ethanol blend in all its gasoline. This was without any warning and the general public is in an uproar. I have been reading horror stories about how this ethanol blend raises havoc with filters, fiberglass gas tanks, and especially with motors with cast iron barrels. Does anyone know for sure what our Spyders have? Cast iron sleeves or perhaps a Nikosil type coating on the cylinders?.

Apparently the blended fuel burns much hotter than pure gasoline and the cast iron motors just can't take the heat. Motors with the coated cylinders do OK.

I have also heard that some mfgrs of small equipment such as lawn edgers, weedeaters, chain saws etc. are voiding warranties if an engine has been damaged by using ethanol blend fuel.

Comments please.

Jack H.
 
I would be surprised if the blended fuel actually burned hotter. One of the problems with alcohol fuels, and the reason they get worse fuel mileage, is that they have less heat capacity, and actually burn cooler. This is advantageous for a racing engine, since high compression ratios can be run, but isn't so neat for the street, IMO. I have run methanol fuels in racing engines, and it is highly corrosive to certain types of rubber, some plastics, some fiberglass, and especially aluminum. Severe damage can result if left in any componenets containing incompatible materials. Racers drain the tank, blow the lines, then run gasoline, WD-40, or another lubricant trhough the system when a race car sits idle. Don't know is ethanol acts exactly the same. Could be better...or worse than methanol.

I have known people in Canada, where a large percentage of ethanol has been used for some time, to experience damage to their bikes and cars from the fuel. Mostly older vehicles. Some also say they get worse mileage, and have to begin to use premium fuel to gain some of it back. I can't vouch for any of that, but I think that such short-sighted legislation is an abomination. Scary thought that they would sneak it in like that. I also hear that fuel stabilizers, like Stabil, which I use for storage, will gel with some alcohol-containing fuels. Hopefully vehicle manufacturers have dealt with this possibility, in this day and age. If not, I hope they pay attention, and sue the pants off the states for the damage caused.

Now look what you started! I got on my soap box again. ;D
-Scotty
 
Hmmm....

I think an ethanol blend is a common thing here in Michigan. I'm not sure if it is 100% of the gas at 100% of the stations though. At least a few of the gas stations I use sell the 10% ethanol fuel for sure as they have a sticker on the pump saying it is a 10% ethanol blend. I've never thought anything of putting it in any of my vehicles but I've never heard that it can damage some engines. Any of you other Michigan folks have more insight on this?
 
Ethanol has been used by some stations in Florida before it was mandated. Sunoco and Murphy (Walmart gas) has been using it. It is murder on older 2 stroke engines. A friend blew the engines in both his PWC because of it. It can also be extremely harmful to other marine engines and fiberglass tanks. Cars built before 2002 can also have problems using it. The oil companies had until January 2010 to make the switch here in FL. They made it in less than a week. The oil barrons love it...sell more gas due to reduced mileage and charge more for it !! They said that gas sold at marinas will not have the alky added to it. Sure...pay $6 a gallon at a marina to save your boat engine !!!!!

Richard
 
It was just mandated here in Oregon April first. One thing i know that it well turn your carb gaskets to jelly, not to mention the decrease in gas mileage.And if you have a older rig, it will clean your corroded gas tank for you, in turn plug your fuel filter.I could go on but im ready to puke .Thanks Gov for lookin out after me and my others brothers.
 
We've had 10% ethanol year round in Arizona for a long time now. I've never encountered any problems in any engines with it although the more ethanol it has the less energy is available per gallon so the mileage goes down. The new E85 vehicles use cast iron blocks and can run 85% ethanol and my 1986 Evinrude XP-150 two stroke owners manual even states that it is okay to use up to 10% Ethanol but not Methanol, there is a big difference. Just my 2 cents.

Bryan
 
araneae said:
We've had 10% ethanol year round in Arizona for a long time now. I've never encountered any problems in any engines with it although the more ethanol it has the less energy is available per gallon so the mileage goes down. The new E85 vehicles use cast iron blocks and can run 85% ethanol and my 1986 Evinrude XP-150 two stroke owners manual even states that it is okay to use up to 10% Ethanol but not Methanol, there is a big difference. Just my 2 cents.

Bryan
Click to expand...
Thanks for clearing that up. I suspected methanol acted differently from ethanol. No direct experience. I have not run into much 10% ETOH here in Michigan, but 3-5% is common in many stations around here. I don't think they have to advertise that. With the costs of ethanol on the rise, too, I suspect the ethanol mix will take over only if mandated by law. Interesting concept. If you run a mix, do you actually save on the amount of gasoline you burn, if you get worse mileage? Our Spyder doesn't really need the reduced mileage. Only averages 28 as it is...and we are very easy on the throttle.
-Scotty
 
We've been using 10% ethanol here in Minnesota for several years. Questions about the "unknown" ethanol blends were raised here years ago, and other than some very old equipment, it has proven to pretty much be a non-issue. Yes, it has less energy per volume so the MPG is not quite as good. Yes, it absorbs water so it will suck the crap out of your gas tank (and works great as a fuel de-icer in the winter). Yes, it does require slight larger (carb) main jets on two-strokes that are tuned to the max. Yes, it tends to dry out some gasket materials. But these have proven to be more isolated and less frequently a problem than predicted, and is now pretty much a non-issue after what almost ten years now?

We just don't even worry about the ethanol fuel blend anymore. It would have to be a pre-1995 engine for me to even raise an eyebrow if I had a fuel-system or related issue, other than the gas going "bad" or "stale" (loss of light ends, bacteria growth or formation of gum/varnish). This remains an issue with most all of the new fuel formulations, including the ethanol blends. "Gas gone bad" is far more of a concern than what the ethanol will do in everyday daily use. At least here in snowy Minnesota. We try to use it within 30 days. 90+ and it is suspect, for sure. The EPA fiddles with the gas formulas to reduce emissions, things like evaporative rates and such. It doesn't stay "fresh" like it used to. I think this is common across the board, ethanol blends and straight gas.

Some stations in MN do still offer a non-ethanol premium that is intended for collector cars (old engines) and off-road vehicles, great for piped and carbed sleds. Boating and sled types seem to maintain the demand for this product availability. I guess that means two-strokes.......

One point is that we're putting money into the pockets of corn farmers of America instead of into the pockets of the middle east, russia, brazil, where ever. To keep that money in the U.S. economy, assuming all other things being equal, should be a huge asset alone. But I'm told the oil companies control the distribution of the ethanol (has to be mixed with their gas), so they're still getting their "cut".

Is it cleaner? That is still questionable. Depends on the measurement method. It also takes a lot of fuel to make a gallon of ethanol, and it takes a lot of water to make a gallon of ethanol. You get into a food vs. fuel argument, along with consuming the ground water and depleting the soil of nutrients......or, farmers planting corn instead of beans or wheat affects those markets, and less corn means higher feed prices (beef, pork)...on and on.

We have a joke around here at the liquor stores - "No gas in our alcohol".
 
Thanks for all the info. I really appreciate it. Now I'm off to the gas station to fill up my Spyder and go riding!!.

Thanks again,

Jack H.
 
barb36jack31 said:
This week Florida went to a 10% ethanol blend in all its gasoline. This was without any warning and the general public is in an uproar. I have been reading horror stories about how this ethanol blend raises havoc with filters, fiberglass gas tanks, and especially with motors with cast iron barrels. Does anyone know for sure what our Spyders have? Cast iron sleeves or perhaps a Nikosil type coating on the cylinders?.

Apparently the blended fuel burns much hotter than pure gasoline and the cast iron motors just can't take the heat. Motors with the coated cylinders do OK.

I have also heard that some mfgrs of small equipment such as lawn edgers, weedeaters, chain saws etc. are voiding warranties if an engine has been damaged by using ethanol blend fuel.

Comments please.WEVE HAD THIS :edit:IN CT.A LONG TIME NOW NO SERIOUS PROBLEMS EXCEPT REDUCED MILAGE AND MORE OUT OF YOUR WALLET.

Jack H.
Click to expand...
 
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