Do LED auxiliary lights cause electrical problems?

[UtahPete]

I have finally given up trying to get enough light from the Spyder headlights (even with LED bulbs) to light up the road at night. The fog lights are a complete joke and a waste of the time, money and effort I've put into trying to get enough light from them to be more visible to other drivers.

I want to accomplish two things from auxiliary lights;
a) create more visibility to other drivers (so the A-arms would be a logical location for that) and
b) throw more light down the road at night-time without blinding oncoming drivers (so a higher location near the mirrors would be ideal for that)

The LED strips on the A-arms, to me, seem more cosmetic than functional, so that's not an option. I don't need to be able to throw a lot of light far down the road, so the $300 LED driving lights are overkill and I'm thinking of going with the inexpensive LED bar lights from Amazon https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IY3YLCI/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1 seem like a good way to go, but I understand these auxiliary lights can create electrical problems requiring ballast resistors and / or hyper-flashing the lighting circuit, according to some threads I've read.

So, here's my questions;
a) what issues if any are created by auxiliary LED lights that are not intermittent (like turn signal lights), WHY is this and is it simple to fix when it happens?
b) for low-power (18watt) LED auxiliary lights, can I safely tap into an existing circuit (e.g. the fog lights) or should I plan on running separate circuits to a relay-type fuse block?
b) has anyone mounted real driving lights higher up on the bike and, if so, where and how? (I have RTs)

Thanks

 

[SPYD3R]

TRY THESE


look on eBay, about $30 per pair.... they come in either 'spot' of 'flood' configuration....
i luv'm.... :yes:
Dan P
SPYD3R

 

[UtahPete]

look on eBay, about $30 per pair.... they come in either 'spot' of 'flood' configuration....i luv'm.... Dan P SPYD3R

Thanks, but that doesn't really answer any of my questions.

 

[ARtraveler]

I installed the HID headlights on my 08 GS. They were BRP factory and cost about $1,500. They were bright, bright, bright. Lit up most of the road and doubled the visibility. Actually, they were to much. I had an angry driver try to run me off the road. They also had one of those transformer things that was part of the package.

High beam was even more bright.

You will probably have to shop around now for similar.

 

[SPYD3R]

Hmmmmm

Thanks, but that doesn't really answer any of my questions.

So, here's my questions;
a) what issues if any are created by auxiliary LED lights that are not intermittent (like turn signal lights), WHY is this and is it simple to fix when it happens? I HAVE NOT WITNESSED ANY ISSUES...
b) for low-power (18watt) LED auxiliary lights, can I safely tap into an existing circuit (e.g. the fog lights) or should I plan on running separate circuits to a relay-type fuse block? I RAN MINE DIRECTLY OFF THE BATTERY WITH ITS OWN SWITCH...
b) has anyone mounted real driving lights higher up on the bike and, if so, where and how? (I have RTs) SEE ATTACHED PIX FOR MOUNTING POSITION... I UTILIZED ONE OF THE FENDER MOUNTING BOLTS... IF YOU NEED TO GO HIGHER THAN THE 'A' ARM, I WOULD THINK YOU'D NEED TO MOUNT THEM ON THE TUPERWARE - NOT A GOOD IDEA...
HOPE THIS HELPS....
DAN P
SPYD3R

 

[UtahPete]

b) for low-power (18watt) LED auxiliary lights, can I safely tap into an existing circuit (e.g. the fog lights) or should I plan on running separate circuits to a relay-type fuse block? I RAN MINE DIRECTLY OFF THE BATTERY WITH ITS OWN SWITCH...

b) has anyone mounted real driving lights higher up on the bike and, if so, where and how? (I have RTs) SEE ATTACHED PIX FOR MOUNTING POSITION... I UTILIZED ONE OF THE FENDER MOUNTING BOLTS... IF YOU NEED TO GO HIGHER THAN THE 'A' ARM, I WOULD THINK YOU'D NEED TO MOUNT THEM ON THE TUPERWARE - NOT A GOOD IDEA..

Thanks. I notice yours are mounted on the lower A-arm, which seems to be too low for driving lights. Do you use them for greater visibility then? Flood or spot?

 

[UtahPete]

I installed the HID headlights on my 08 GS. They were BRP factory and cost about $1,500. They were bright, bright, bright. Lit up most of the road and doubled the visibility. Actually, they were to much. I had an angry driver try to run me off the road.

I saw those on sale a couple years ago at a local dealer for $800; I should have jumped on it!

Xenon Depot has some for a whole lot less; any thoughts on those? http://www.xenondepot.com/H9-HID-Kit-Xtreme-HID-p/xt-h9.htm

 

[JerryB]

Hi Utah,

Re: Do LED auxiliary lights cause electrical problems?

They can. I suggest they you go to the DIY forum and look at my posts under Relays.

Lots of photos & info there.

Jerry Baumchen

Re: 'issues' - Depending upon the power draw, they can cause issues with the BUDS sysstem.

Re: 'safely tap into an existing circuit' - This I would not recommend; see above comment.

Jerry Baumchen

 

[ARtraveler]

I saw those on sale a couple years ago at a local dealer for $800; I should have jumped on it!

Xenon Depot has some for a whole lot less; any thoughts on those? http://www.xenondepot.com/H9-HID-Kit-Xtreme-HID-p/xt-h9.htm

Can't help with the Xenon Depot information. I believe they have a good rep though.

 

[UtahPete]

Hi Utah, Re: Do LED auxiliary lights cause electrical problems? They can. I suggest they you go to the DIY forum and look at my posts under Relays. Lots of photos & info there.Jerry Baumchen

Here's the link for my future reference; http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?108060-Relays/page2#top

I think what you're doing there with relays is interesting but a little more complicated than I need. You seem to be saying that using relays to isolate the load from the lighting circuit is THE solution to avoiding hyperflash problems with turn signal circuits. But, I'm not planning to use a turn signal circuit to interrupt the power intermittently to my driving / visibility lights.

Am I missing something? Why would auxiliary lights mess with the BUDS system if isolated from the OEM lighting circuits?

What do those tiny lights down low accomplish for you? Is it just creating more visibility to other drivers, or are you trying to 'light up the night'?

 

[UtahPete]

Finally found a really good explanation of the issues with using LED or HID bulbs on OEM halogen circuits; http://www.xenondepot.com/HID-kit-wiring-can-bus-DRL-explained-s/41.htm

[FONT=&quot]It's a pretty long read, but comprehensive. The geek in me likes that![/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]

 

[JerryB]

Hi Pete,

Re: I think what you're doing there with relays is interesting but a little more complicated than I need.

That is true. I was not saying do as I did; I just wanted to inform you of some of the work that I did to sort of lead you along.

Re: But, I'm not planning to use a turn signal circuit to interrupt the power intermittently to my driving / visibility lights.

Then disregard my info on the closed relays. You can just use a Normally Open relay & then have it come on when the key is turned on; as I did. That way there is no need for an additional switch as Chupaca ( Gene ) did with his add-on lites.

If you want to talk about this, give me a call tomorrow evening; gone tonite.

Re: What do those tiny lights down low accomplish for you? Is it just creating more visibility to other drivers, or are you trying to 'light up the night'?

My goal was & and is, to be seen by others. I have not had the Spyder out at nite since I got them installed; rarely ride at nite & this is our rainy season. I think Gene installed his add-on lites so he could see the road better at nite. Drop him a PM and see what he says.

Having installed these on my Spyder, I am convinced that is not a tough project to tackle.

Jerry Baumchen

PS) Re: You seem to be saying that using relays to isolate the load from the lighting circuit is THE solution to avoiding hyperflash problems with turn signal circuits.

I am saying that using relays to isolate the additional load from any circuit(s) is the solution to preventing problems with BUDS. It took me a long time to understand this, but thanks to my son-in-law who is an electrical engineer and also a motorcycle guy, I now have a fair understanding of this stuff.

 

[stevencovert]

My two cents!

Thanks

So, here's my questions;
a) what issues if any are created by auxiliary LED lights that are not intermittent (like turn signal lights), WHY is this and is it simple to fix when it happens?

None that I have ever found. I would suggest a bumpskid with LED's, as they cut through fog like nobodies business (for oncoming people to see you - to clarify). You can see them from FAR OFF! Plus people wonder what the heck that is, so they pay attention to you (read you are safer!). This was verified during a mountain run with fog, you could see the LED strip before the headlights! LED strips do not pull much power, and generally tie into existing harness with an adaptor, in the case of the bumpskid. As for fixing - peel off the old, clean with alcohol, put on the replacement. I had to replace the bumpskid LED strip, was cake.

b) for low-power (18watt) LED auxiliary lights, can I safely tap into an existing circuit (e.g. the fog lights) or should I plan on running separate circuits to a relay-type fuse block?

Again, no problem here with me. A 12V system with an 18W load is about 1.2 Amps. The fog light fuse is rated high enough that it shouldn't affect anything. The headlight circuit would be better, has a lot higher overhead rating for the fuse; the system would barely notice 1.2A on a 20A or 30A circuit. However - if you plan on going nuts with LED's and farkles, I would consider the relay board that mounts behind the frunk. I have ALL the LED's (brake strips, high mount brake light, bumpskid, turn signals, A-Arms... never a problem. The load is far lower than compared to an incandescent bulb!

c) has anyone mounted real driving lights higher up on the bike and, if so, where and how? (I have RTs)
Not yet, I'm watching for ideas :yes:

About BUDS: I have read that an LED strip was messing with the BUDS communication system. The technician unplugged a strip and the problem went away. As an engineer I was really skeptical, but I guess an LED can start failing and draw a lot of current or cause noisy spikes, in which case might trip something. By noisy spikes I mean a failing or cracked LED turning off/on so fast you can't see it with your eyes but spikey noise would be present for that circuit.

 

[trikermutha]

Mine are mounted on the side of the fender mounts and turn with the wheels. I like the light following me as I turn. IMO is much better for me.

My lights are on there own circuit but are switched with the high and low beams and brightness can be adjusted separately with a pot that I mounted in my glove box.

I would not run Aux lights off a current circuit on the bike. IMO

 

[Culpjp]

I have added aux beam headlights to my GS. I mounted then to the A arms, and they really brighten the road in front of the bike. I have one pointed towards the edge of the road more to let me see any critters that might be lurking there. I'm much more noticeable by cars also. I ran mine with a separate switch and relay directly to the battery. I do get interference with the radio in my Sena headset when they are turned on.

 

[ofdave]

I do not think there will be any problem adding LED lights which are not part of the turn signals.
There are other opinions on this. I have no issue with my LED conspicuity lights.
LED driving or fog lights will likely draw no more than 3 amps each (if that).
A relay is not needed. An inline fuse should be installed (7 amp should do it). Especially if you tie in to an existing lighting circuit-that's my opinion based on past experiences with lighting.
The majority of LED lighting products from the vendor/sponsors here do not include a relay. I figure they have some knowledge on the subject of lights.

 

[UtahPete]

I do not think there will be any problem adding LED lights which are not part of the turn signals. There are other opinions on this. I have no issue with my LED conspicuity lights. LED driving or fog lights will likely draw no more than 3 amps each (if that). A relay is not needed. An inline fuse should be installed (7 amp should do it). Especially if you tie in to an existing lighting circuit-that's my opinion based on past experiences with lighting. The majority of LED lighting products from the vendor/sponsors here do not include a relay. I figure they have some knowledge on the subject of lights.

Good point.

 

[UtahPete]

I have added aux beam headlights to my GS. I mounted then to the A arms, and they really brighten the road in front of the bike. I have one pointed towards the edge of the road more to let me see any critters that might be lurking there. I'm much more noticeable by cars also. I ran mine with a separate switch and relay directly to the battery. I do get interference with the radio in my Sena headset when they are turned on.

Good to know. Thanks.

 

[UtahPete]

Mine are mounted on the side of the fender mounts and turn with the wheels. I like the light following me as I turn. IMO is much better for me. My lights are on there own circuit but are switched with the high and low beams and brightness can be adjusted separately with a pot that I mounted in my glove box. I would not run Aux lights off a current circuit on the bike. IMO

Thanks.

 

[UtahPete]

I would suggest a bumpskid with LED's, as they cut through fog like nobodies business (for oncoming people to see you - to clarify). You can see them from FAR OFF! Plus people wonder what the heck that is, so they pay attention to you (read you are safer!).

A 12V system with an 18W load is about 1.2 Amps. The fog light fuse is rated high enough that it shouldn't affect anything. The headlight circuit would be better, has a lot higher overhead rating for the fuse; the system would barely notice 1.2A on a 20A or 30A circuit.

About BUDS: I have read that an LED strip was messing with the BUDS communication system. The technician unplugged a strip and the problem went away. As an engineer I was really skeptical, but I guess an LED can start failing and draw a lot of current or cause noisy spikes, in which case might trip something. By noisy spikes I mean a failing or cracked LED turning off/on so fast you can't see it with your eyes but spikey noise would be present for that circuit.

That's helpful info. Thanks.