BRP's Trained Dealership Technicians

[jaherbst]

I know this question is a little off topic; but related to it. I know that BRP knows what dealerships have:
A. Master Techs, and
B. Certified Techs
Do they make make this information available, or is it up to the individual to call around to the dealer(s) in their state to find out this information ??????

It is up to you to check and make sure your mech is certified. Most are not on the Spyder. Most dealers have one guy who is certified and the rest are young new and uncertified. Always ask who is going to do the work on your Spyder and if they are "Spyder certified". Ask to see the certificate. Don't be shy. This is only good business and paying to have your maintenance done is doing business.

Trust but verify. The dealer (service writer) will never volunteer this information. You have to ask!

Jack

 

[Bob Denman]

:agree: Trust; but verify! :thumbup:
(Didn't President Reagan say that?)

 

[wiredgeorge]

I will tell you one issue for SURE that causes the long delays for service. I hear this every time out here no matter the dealer.

They DO NOT STOCK PARTS! Or if they do it is stuff for regular service (filters, etc).

When I had the set screw issue I talked to the dealer up front. Sent them the BRP Technical Service Bulletin, and showed them the parts they needed. Bottom line... THEY WOULD NOT ORDER the parts (which was nothing more than gaskets) until they got my Spyder and took it apart.

Thus I waited a full week while parts came in. Had they had the parts or were willing to order them BEFORE I brought my Spyder in, the job would have been one day.

This is a common theme out here and is very annoying.

Bob

I don't do general mechanical work on bikes but rebuild and sell vintage motorcycle carburetors and fully understand why a shop can't stock all necessary parts to do any conceivable job. I buy parts for work on an as needed basis except for common parts that work in many jobs; jets, float seat assemblies, o-rings, bowl gaskets, etc. These I buy in bulk to reduce costs which I hopefully pass on to my customers. If I get a job that requires special carb kits because the assembly has odd ball pilot jets only available in kits, I just can't afford the inventory (inventory tax bungs up your taxes) which may or may not be used for a long period of time. I think this may also extend to full dealerships... should a dealership stock a part that might not be called for within a long time frame or does it make more sense for them to order it? Perhaps the better question would be why it takes weeks for a part to come down from Canada? I get many of my carb parts from a Canadian distributor and they use Fedex Air 2 day so if I order on a Monday, I can get the stuff by mid-week. Now if I order genuine parts from an OEM, I have to order through a parts seller and it may take 2-5 weeks to get parts in; particularly if the part isn't in the US (remember this is vintage stuff so a lot is obsolete or very low volume sales), they have to get the part from Japan. It would be great to have a store of all possible parts I could use but I would have to greatly increase my storage space and I would have to start spending a whole lot that was not based on current orders to fill this storage space. Since the dealers are dealing with BRP directly, the answer is more responsive ordering and shipping.

 

[Brogers57]

I will shed light on this. Although reading this may be depressing but I must say my Spyder has been gone for 41 or 42 days until somebody stepped over the line and said "let's get this guy a new engine" Do I still love my Spyder? Without a fact yes! I had to press the issue as much as I could on my side to get the ball rolling quicker. Were their faults from all involved? Yes, I believe in this case everybody learned lessons. What I was plagued with doesn't seem to be "normal". I've not seen many if more than mine of oil leaks and I don't believe BRP had either which caused delays as i'm not sure they 100% believed what they were being told until they saw the pics. I saw myself the oil leak under darkness, black light and glasses. Moral of the story, enjoy what you have. Ride the hell out of it. Every company has a "lemon" but nobody knows who will draw the "lemon straw". I did in this case.


On a side note, my case should in fact show BRP that dealers need training nation wide. Are their good ones? Without a doubt and there are horrible ones. There needs to be up training.

This topic is very depressing. I love my Spyder, but almost regret buying it if this is what I have to expect. :banghead:

Pam

 

[Gray Ghost]

It is up to you to check and make sure your mech is certified. Most are not on the Spyder. Most dealers have one guy who is certified and the rest are young new and uncertified. Always ask who is going to do the work on your Spyder and if they are "Spyder certified". Ask to see the certificate. Don't be shy. This is only good business and paying to have your maintenance done is doing business.

Trust but verify. The dealer (service writer) will never volunteer this information. You have to ask!

Jack

This topic has been interesting. In the Army when we trained a new soldier for a certain job we only expected them to be about 70% capable when we shipped them to their first duty assignment. They were expected to pick up the rest through experience while being supervised by more knowledgeable supervisors. For the most part that system was very effective.

In the powersports industry training comes two ways, getting someone from a trade school and training them further in the dealership, or getting someone off the street and training them. There are different trade schools out there with different lengths of training, even at least one I believe that is all online training.

MMI is the one I am familiar with, and it consists of 36 weeks of general training (lecture and hands on) followed by at least one factory endorsed course HD (30 weeks), Honda (24 weeks), Yamaha (12 weeks), Suzuki (12 weeks), Kawasaki (12 weeks), and BMW (12 weeks). Students were able to complete some portions of certification while in school, but even if they completed all of the requirements for a certain level the certificate is not granted until they actually work at a dealership.

For those who come in off the street, they usually work at the dealership awhile under the guidance of the service manager or an A tech, then when ready get sent to a factory training site. I could not find any info on Spyder training, but the BRP training for Evinrude consists of taking about 14 hours of video training, followed by two five day sessions at the factory training site. That is similar to what Yamaha does for their Silver and Gold certification.

I believe that certification is important, but not the most important thing when it comes to a service department. The one BRP document that I saw about dealership requirements called for one certified technician. When you think about it, do you really need to be a Master tech to change the oil on a Spyder? But on the other hand, I do want a tech that knows the machine to handle that quirky problem that has my bike deadlined. A good service manager is going to dispatch work to the technicians based upon their capability to do the job in an efficient manner. And that means that some tasks are going to be done by a tech that is less than Master qualified. After all, if we never let people work their way up, we will never have Master qualified technicians. Mastery of a task or profession is a combination of training and experience.

 

[kbwitt]

A real dilemma and a lot of problems.

Let me ad one more issue. Dealer spends the money to train person X--gets the person certified. Mechanic then takes a job with another dealer for more money.

Buds are available out there. Where there is a will, there is a way.

If you are charging me $110.00 an hour with a $20.00 shop fee and do not pay your mechanics enough to keep them. I feel so bad for you.

 

[Bob Denman]

:agree: But I feel worse for us! :shocked:

 

[bruiser]

I've been following this thread since it started. A few comments from me.

Parts- Dealers have to have a certain amount of space for parts for each make/model of product they sell. Typically, those parts are high use items that move quickly. Dealers must keep strict control on all inventory. The reason is TAXES. Dealers must pay tax on all inventory down to the last nut and washer they stock. When I worked as a field service rep for a major company, we had to inventory every item on our service trucks yearly. Each rep had their own inventory specific to their AOR and machine population. We were rated on our inventory accuracy. Our company came out with an auto replenishment inventory for each truck. And we were finally restricted to high use items which mostly consisted of parts used on a pm service. If we had to order a part not in stock for a specific repair, the customer had the option of next day air, second day, or standard delivery. Both next day and second day were paid for by the customer. Our company had shop/warehouses around the country from which we would get our parts. The company decided to close those shop/warehouses and went to a central warehouse located next to a UPS hub from which our parts came. This did cause some issues with delivery times, wrong parts shipped, and out of stock parts. The service reps were very vocal on their dislike for this move.

Techs- We were all factory trained on our products, All new hires had to go through initial factory training with follow up training provided by region trainers and senior reps, like myself. We had new product and refresher training once a year at our service meetings. When our company branched out to working on competitive products, we were left on our own to learn that product. Which in our case wasn't too bad because all of our products were similar in design and construction. For those competitive products, some of our parts would work. But in the case of a product specific part, we had to go to a vendor for parts. However, we lost trained techs to other companies as well. The tech that took my place when I retired, left the company after one year on the job.

I read the want ads daily and I constantly see local auto dealers looking for service techs. Some ads say no experience needed, training provided. Some say experience needed. One dealer whom I have a long standing relationship with pays their techs a salary plus bonus. Their sales people are all salaried as well. Rare in the automotive world. Most dealers pay their techs by the job and the amount of parts they sell. So if you're good, and can complete a repair/service quickly, with more parts, you get more pay. And face it, today's market for auto mechanics, including motorcycles, is extremely competitive. Some dealers will require a tech to sign a contract stating a set amount of time a tech must work for them after training/certification.

BRP is not the only company with proprietary technology ie; BUDDS. There are many companies out there that don't want certain processes or specific information available to the general public or competitors. That is why BRP is protective of their computer technology. And that is why dealers have to pay a licensing fee for that technology. Have you noticed that there are no new phone apps with the updated 1330 codes?

One more comment. There are no Spyder specific dealers and probably never will be. You can't sell one specific product like the Spyder and remain a viable and profitable business. Auto dealerships have proven this to be true. And I know for a fact, that a dealer with a service department is going to service/repair his top selling product before a secondary or tertiary product. Again, Spyder. I had the personal experience of a dealers service manager tell me that his PWCs and boats came first and it would be at least two weeks to get to my Spyder. Because this was the week before Memorial Day. All I needed was a new rear tire and oil change AND I had an appointment. Same way when hunting season comes around.

So that's my take. I do most all of my work on our Spyders. I was on a ride this weekend and we stopped at a dealer who has just recently started selling Spyders. On a whim I asked the service manager if he had a BRP trained service rep for Spyders. He said yes. Then he somewhat recanted. He said his tech took the online course only. Then he said that he had two techs that were scheduled for the hands on course beginning in October. I'll follow up on that.

EDIT: That dealer had a sign posted with his labor rate and a notice that all service work was done by flat rate and would be charged at that rate regardless of how long it took.

 

[spydaman60]

It has been awhile since we have had a similar thread. Someone posts a thread with a complaint or discussion about something that can be improved. All others who have had a bad experience or know someone who does, chimes in.

Before we know it we have five pages of gloom, despair and agony, Oh me, deep dark depression and excessive misery. Oh Me....if it weren't for bad luck, I have no luck at all, ...:roflblack: :roflblack:

There are good dealers as well as the bad ones. Here, two out of three are great to do business with or get service from. I just avoid the third dealer. :yes:

:agree: as oj might say, spot on!!:roflblack:

 

[sandeejs]

What other plans or policies would you suggest BRP implement to correct the technical staff issues that exist within their dealerships?

My Spyder is currently in the shop, been there for over a week. 6 days after it was towed in, I get a call to pay for a new motor for the windshield. I paid for it, even though I'm 90% sure it wasn't broke when it was towed in! What was broke was the little plastic piece that raises and lowers it. The motor failed, I'm guessing, when they tried to lower it without looking at the JERRY-RIGGED REPAIR THAT SECURED THE WINDSHIELD IN THE HIGHEST POSITION! Those zip strips were installed so I wouldn't miss out on an upcoming trip with the girl-posse. Had I been allowed to actually talk to the tech that would be working on the bike, that would not have happened. Had the guy writing up the repair listened carefully, it would not have happened.
When they called about authorizing the purchase of the new motor, I asked if the clutch issue had been fixed. Answer: they hadn't looked at that yet. I'm guessing after the motor for the w.s. comes in and is installed, then they'll look at the problem keeping the tryke from moving. Although installing a new motor is not going to fix the windshield, that broken cog-thingy needs replacing. I need to stop buy and let them know that.......
I travel 40 miles to get to this dealership. I'm gonna check out a nearer one, ask if I'll actually be allowed to talk to the tech when I bring my ryde in. It's prolly not a win-win thing. This place only seem to have one Spyder tech on staff.
It's just frustrating to me. I don't thing it's just a BRP problem. Many mechanic types don't think women have any sense about their motorcycles. I don't think it's a BRP thing that the tech doesn't talk to the owner. If the tech is busy trying to fix bykes, talking to every customer sets them back.

Frustrated in Mich,
~Sandee~

 

[pegasus1300]

My Spyder is currently in the shop, been there for over a week. 6 days after it was towed in, I get a call to pay for a new motor for the windshield. I paid for it, even though I'm 90% sure it wasn't broke when it was towed in! What was broke was the little plastic piece that raises and lowers it. The motor failed, I'm guessing, when they tried to lower it without looking at the JERRY-RIGGED REPAIR THAT SECURED THE WINDSHIELD IN THE HIGHEST POSITION! Those zip strips were installed so I wouldn't miss out on an upcoming trip with the girl-posse. Had I been allowed to actually talk to the tech that would be working on the bike, that would not have happened. Had the guy writing up the repair listened carefully, it would not have happened.
When they called about authorizing the purchase of the new motor, I asked if the clutch issue had been fixed. Answer: they hadn't looked at that yet. I'm guessing after the motor for the w.s. comes in and is installed, then they'll look at the problem keeping the tryke from moving. Although installing a new motor is not going to fix the windshield, that broken cog-thingy needs replacing. I need to stop buy and let them know that.......
I travel 40 miles to get to this dealership. I'm gonna check out a nearer one, ask if I'll actually be allowed to talk to the tech when I bring my ryde in. It's prolly not a win-win thing. This place only seem to have one Spyder tech on staff.
It's just frustrating to me. I don't thing it's just a BRP problem. Many mechanic types don't think women have any sense about their motorcycles. I don't think it's a BRP thing that the tech doesn't talk to the owner. If the tech is busy trying to fix bykes, talking to every customer sets them back.

Frustrated in Mich,
~Sandee~

If I remember correctly the broken piece is not sold seperately,you have to buy the whole unit thus the new motor which includes the actuating arms, purchase. However they should have taken the time to explain to you why a whole new motor unit was necessary. The fact that they have not even looked at the clutch while waiting for the motor bespeaks of great inefficiency in that shop as well as a lack of consideration for their customers.

 

[sandeejs]

My Bad!

If I remember correctly the broken piece is not sold separately,you have to buy the whole unit thus the new motor which includes the actuating arms, purchase. However they should have taken the time to explain to you why a whole new motor unit was necessary. The fact that they have not even looked at the clutch while waiting for the motor bespeaks of great inefficiency in that shop as well as a lack of consideration for their customers.

Thank you. I just re-read the sticky at the the head of the forums, and was looking for this thread to issue a retraction.
It would have been more efficient to have me authorize the $$$ when I dropped the bike off. As for them explaining, I think the tech tells the desk guys to make the calls.
Hopefully I'll ryde again this summer.

~Sandee~

 

[Gray Ghost]

... I think the tech tells the desk guys to make the calls.

Typically the service writer or service manager is the link between the tech and the customer. Most techs are paid for their time actually working on a repair order. Any time away from that cuts into their paycheck.

 

[PMK]

Not to defend the tech, service writer or be against the female thing, however it is possible the tech saw the windscreen repair and opted not to risk liability if it failed when he did his first test ride.

All the best in resolving the problems.

PK