Adventure in wrapping exhaust pipes!

[3 Wheel Addict]

First off let me say it's a huge improvement in sound (quietness of engine) as well as heat. Not sure yet if it's the answer or not but after a lengthy ride I notice way less heat coming out of the cracks by the seat. Gas cap don't seem as hot either, just warm. I don't know how everybody else wrapped their pipes but I completely removed the complete exhaust system to wrap the head pipes from one end to the other. Getting the long front pipe out is a chore! Here's a clue if your thinking about doing this... get 2" wide wrap and it may just be me but the DEI titainium stuff is crap! I started using it first and that stuff like to pull apart if you tugging hard to wrap it tight. Went back to local speed shop and they said get the Thermo-tec "copper" and be done with it. BTW safety wire is the absolute best way to secure it plus you don't have to buy those expensive stainless ties. As of now I pleased with the results and i'm going to see what BRP thinks of this and if it will affect the warranty.

 

[Chupaca]

Nicely done..!!

I only wrapped the left side on the spyder and noticed an improvement right away. Yours must be a great improvement having done them both....congrats :2thumbs:

 

[NancysToy]

Nice job!

 

[SNOOPY]

Approximately how long do you think this took total?

 

[Tulefog]

Can the solution to the heat problem be this simple?

This looks great, how long did it take you and did you have to get gaskets ahead of time when you reinstalled?
How much is the thermal tape?
What was the outdoor temperature like there today?
Where i live we have a month over 100 degrees every summer if it takes part of the heat away i would do it.
This looks like it goes to the source of the problem, not the heat damage symptoms like the recall insulation.
I hope BRP gives your improvement the consideration it deserves.
Well done, and thank you for your hard work.

 

[KAPike]

I really like the looks of this. Thanks for sharing.
This kind of thread is what SpyderLovers is all about.
How many feet of wrap did you use?
Any other tips?

 

[Dan McNally]

Great job!

 

[happyspyder2039]

First off let me say it's a huge improvement in sound (quietness of engine) as well as heat. Not sure yet if it's the answer or not but after a lengthy ride I notice way less heat coming out of the cracks by the seat. Gas cap don't seem as hot either, just warm. I don't know how everybody else wrapped their pipes but I completely removed the complete exhaust system to wrap the head pipes from one end to the other. Getting the long front pipe out is a chore! Here's a clue if your thinking about doing this... get 2" wide wrap and it may just be me but the DEI titainium stuff is crap! I started using it first and that stuff like to pull apart if you tugging hard to wrap it tight. Went back to local speed shop and they said get the Thermo-tec "copper" and be done with it. BTW safety wire is the absolute best way to secure it plus you don't have to buy those expensive stainless ties. As of now I pleased with the results and i'm going to see what BRP thinks of this and if it will affect the warranty.

looks interesting. How dose this hold up for rain/snow?

 

[Benggolf]

Very nicely done! :thumbup:

 

[MidLifeCrisis]

+1 on the Thermo-Tec copper wrap. Wrapped both sides of mine in place at the beginning of the summer and rode in 118 degree temps in Phoenix with no heat issues. No boiling gas, no hot seat, engine temp never exceeded 5 bars. That compared to the previous year riding in 113 and I hit 6 bars several times, through a limp mode and had a flat out miserable experience, not knowing if I was going to make it back home. To top off the deeper and quitter sounding engine, I've been getting no less than 30 and up to 34 mpg since the wrapping and last year I couldn't do better than 26.

There was a debate on this forum with some insisting there was no benefit to wrapping, but others keep reporting positive results. It may vary well be the materials used too, but I have nothing but positive to report with the copper wrap.


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[SNOOPY]

+1 on the Thermo-Tec copper wrap. Wrapped both sides of mine in place at the beginning of the summer and rode in 118 degree temps in Phoenix with no heat issues. No boiling gas, no hot seat, engine temp never exceeded 5 bars. That compared to the previous year riding in 113 and I hit 6 bars several times, through a limp mode and had a flat out miserable experience, not knowing if I was going to make it back home. To top off the deeper and quitter sounding engine, I've been getting no less than 30 and up to 34 mpg since the wrapping and last year I couldn't do better than 26.

There was a debate on this forum with some insisting there was no benefit to wrapping, but others keep reporting positive results. It may vary well be the materials used too, but I have nothing but positive to report with the copper wrap.


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thanks for for the first hand input! :thumbup:

 

[3 Wheel Addict]

I would say that the total time to do this job was about 6 to 8 hours but I had a rainy day and did not want to rush anything. I don't have a service manual and it did take some time to figure out how to remove some things. There is also 1 nut on each pipe that is a real pain to get off and getting the rubber hanger off of the cat looked like it was going to be hell but it turns out you just reach around from the right rear side through the swingarm and unhook it. Plus the front of the cat has 2 pegs going into rubber grommets, don't try to pull the cat out of those grommets... just unbolt the grommet bracket and remove it with the cat. After looking it all over closely i'm sure the cat is not the source of our heat problem, it could be a source of heat soak when your done riding but not while your moving, there is just too much of it down in the airstream under the bike. Since my bike is new with less than 1000 mile I did not replace any gaskets, none tore or were damaged during removal. I also discovered an oil leak at the right side oil hose "banjo" bolt for the clutch cover, bolt was not tight and all covered with oil. Found that the left side protection screen for the oil cooler was gouging into a wiring harness at the frame! That would have caused serious problems in the future!! As I stated originally one 50' roll of 2" wrap will do the job, don't try it with 1" I started with the 1" Titanium wrap and it was a PITA and would not be enough. The Thermo-tec "copper" was $48.00 for the 50' roll and it's rated for 2000 degrees.

 

[ThreeWheels]

Can you wrap the exhausts while leaving them in place.
I'm very interested in the wrap, but I'd rather not remove the exhaust pipes, even if it takes more time and material.

 

[SNOOPY]

Thanks 3 Wheel :thumbup:

 

[3 Wheel Addict]

Can you wrap the exhausts while leaving them in place.
I'm very interested in the wrap, but I'd rather not remove the exhaust pipes, even if it takes more time and material.

I suppose you could but it would be hard to get the whole pipe wrapped up as some of it is hardly accessible at all. That's why I went through the hassle of removing them, to get them wrapped completely, end to end.

 

[MidLifeCrisis]

Can you wrap the exhausts while leaving them in place.
I'm very interested in the wrap, but I'd rather not remove the exhaust pipes, even if it takes more time and material.

Not sure what changed for the 13's, but removing the pipes on the 10 - 12 RT was a monster, so I wrapped in place. It took me way too long to figure out how to get to the very end of the pipe the first time, so I gave up. It was well above 110 in Phoenix when I tried it and blew a couple of "fuses" in the process and gave up. I came back to it when the temps were much cooler and my cooler head helped me see what needed to be done.

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?54109-Exhaust-wrapping-round-2

It took about 6 hours after I figured out how to get both hands where they needed to be. I think I remember reading the belly pans and front grills (in front of the radiator and oil cooler) come off as one unit. It that's the case, the 13's will be way easier to wrap in place, or remove the headers.

A few have reported wrapping from the oxygen sensor back or wrapping in two pieces, to make things easier. I didn't want to leave the entire front of the pipe exposed, so I managed to wrap all the way to the block.

Another side benefit I failed to mention...I can use my glove box now, even without the insulating Styrofoam block there from the factory.:clap:I didn't insulate any of the panels or tupperware. I have not removed the airbox or canister. Everything I've reported has been based on wrapping the pipes only. Doing the other two would seem like a major bonus for air circulation.

 

[Desert Spyder]

+1 on the Thermo-Tec copper wrap. Wrapped both sides of mine in place at the beginning of the summer and rode in 118 degree temps in Phoenix with no heat issues. No boiling gas, no hot seat, engine temp never exceeded 5 bars. That compared to the previous year riding in 113 and I hit 6 bars several times, through a limp mode and had a flat out miserable experience, not knowing if I was going to make it back home. To top off the deeper and quitter sounding engine, I've been getting no less than 30 and up to 34 mpg since the wrapping and last year I couldn't do better than 26.

There was a debate on this forum with some insisting there was no benefit to wrapping, but others keep reporting positive results. It may vary well be the materials used too, but I have nothing but positive to report with the copper wrap.


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Why would the mpg improve because the pipe is wrapped? This is an area I have no knowledge about.

Another silly question, why hasn't BRP wrapped the pipes, at least, at the factory? Hasn't there been enough heat related issues? Would the blanket be easier to work with than the wrap? Again, I don't have much knowledge about what goes on under the plastic as I'm sure most of us here.

 

[jcthorne]

Why would the mpg improve because the pipe is wrapped? This is an area I have no knowledge about.

This one I can answer WRT the spyder. The unwrapped exhaust is heating the fuel tank causing the vapors being complained about. This vapor is gasoline being boiled away rather than burned in the engine. Its a significant loss. I can see the difference in fuel economy in cool vs hot day riding directly related to the intensity of the gas vapors.

 

[MidLifeCrisis]

Why would the mpg improve because the pipe is wrapped? This is an area I have no knowledge about.

Another silly question, why hasn't BRP wrapped the pipes, at least, at the factory? Hasn't there been enough heat related issues? Would the blanket be easier to work with than the wrap? Again, I don't have much knowledge about what goes on under the plastic as I'm sure most of us here.

Pipe wrapping has been used in racing for decades to improve performance. The gasses start to cool immediately as they travel through the pipe and wrapping them slows the cooling, which helps with evacuation. Better evacuation = better performance = better mileage. On the Spyder, the air box sits directly above and to the side of the front cylinders pipe, so intake temp a also increases. Cooler intake = better performance = better mileage.

As to why BRP wouldn't wrap the pipes at the factory, considering all of the complaints? Good question. Maybe the Canadians will complain they are too cold....they are offering a heated seat for the 14s and those pipes run under the bike, so who knows!


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[MidLifeCrisis]

This one I can answer WRT the spyder. The unwrapped exhaust is heating the fuel tank causing the vapors being complained about. This vapor is gasoline being boiled away rather than burned in the engine. Its a significant loss. I can see the difference in fuel economy in cool vs hot day riding directly related to the intensity of the gas vapors.

I don't know if it's actually being boiled away. The system is pressurized, which is why the vapors can burn when the cap is loosened and the pressure releases, but cool fuels burns more efficiently than hot, so it definitely helps.