'22 RT starting slowly after sitting on tender - replacement Battery?

[Peter Aawen]

You ask "What are the chances of two fully charged batteries producing the exact same result??" If they're something 'less than high quality/high spec' products, then the answer to that is "A whole lot greater than you might think!" :banghead: And that chance is made even greater if one or more of them are 'brand new off the shelf' items, altho your putting it on a maintainer overnight beforehand might have a slight mitigation effect!!

Do you have anyone nearby who can/will do a load check on both batteries for you? Or failing that, any way (a multi-meter?) of checking the voltage of each battery:

1. after they've sat for some hours off the maintainer doing nothing;
2. then shortly after you first turn the ignition on;
3. then when you're actually trying to start/physically cranking the engine; and finally
4. when the engine is running smoothly at idle after starting??

If you can do those load tests &/or provide those FOUR sets of voltage readings for EACH battery, we might be able to shed some helpful light on your issues. :thumbup:

Still, the brief answer is that while the batteries in other vehicles might be considered OK if they load test &/or never show a voltage lower than 10.5 Volts in any of those readings above; but given our Spyders & their EXTREMELY power hungry nature, I've found that over hundreds of Spyders now, that
if any of those readings &/or load test results drop below 12 Volts ever, then you are likely to have the issues you describe! :banghead:

So if you're replacing a Spyder Battery, you really want the best quality battery you can get that fits, provides a minimum of 12 Volts, is rated for 350+ CCA, & 21+ Amp/hours - anything less in a battery means that it is most likely only a temporary fixture in your Spyder and very likely to cost you more than paying the extra for the higher quality/better spec battery in the long run, either for the call-out & jump start (IF you're lucky!) or for the tow home, plus any incidental accom & transport fees you may need to cover cos your Spyder Battery crapped itself when you were away from home!! :gaah:

Just Sayin!

 

[Mikey]

:agree: LOAD TEST them!!! And go through all of your cable ends to make sure they are clean and tight on both ends!

 

[Kromm]

I agree with Peter, check out your new battery and make sure that it's "a minimum of 12 Volts, is rated for 350+ CCA, & 21+ Amp/hours ". When it comes to new batteries on my bike I don't skimp. Nothing worse being in the middle of nowhere and having it fail on you.

And for Poppie65, the VSS code comes up on the main screen as it's trying to turn over.

 

[Poppie65]

Good morning, and thanks for the quick responses.

I forgot to mention in my original post last night (it was late, I was tired, I know...excuses, excuses) that I did take the original (Haijiu) battery up to the local parts store and had them test it, and it tested good. I also left this battery with the kind folks at Battery Plus when I bought the replacement, so there's only one battery here to perform the suggested voltage checks.

Meanwhile, I've disconnected from the maintainer and will get those readings later this afternoon.

Also, my full size battery charger is a Schumacher Farm & Ranch model FR01335. This is the one that I used to confirm the charge level and voltage reading. It also has the capability to display amps, but I am unsure of when an amp reading would actually be displayed when the battery is removed from the vehicle. As I scrolled through the readings after each recharge, the amps showed 0.0 each time.

 

[Poppie65]

Yesterday afternoon I was able to take 3 of the suggested readings.
1. after they've sat for some hours off the maintainer doing nothing; 12.93V
2. then shortly after you first turn the ignition on; 12.45V
3. then when you're actually trying to start/physically cranking the engine; the engine turned for maybe one rotation then stopped all together, voltmeter reading 11.3V. Each subsequent key turn resulted in a single click of a solenoid and no engine rotation.
and finally;
4. when the engine is running smoothly at idle after starting?? Wasn't able to get the engine started.

 

[Peter Aawen]

Yesterday afternoon I was able to take 3 of the suggested readings.
1. after they've sat for some hours off the maintainer doing nothing; 12.93V
2. then shortly after you first turn the ignition on; 12.45V
3. then when you're actually trying to start/physically cranking the engine; the engine turned for maybe one rotation then stopped all together, voltmeter reading 11.3V. Each subsequent key turn resulted in a single click of a solenoid and no engine rotation.
and finally;
4. when the engine is running smoothly at idle after starting?? Wasn't able to get the engine started.

The sort of issue you describe has been very much my experience with batteries that fail to maintain 12 volts or higher throughout each and all of those tests, especially of late with the 'less capable' batteries BRP is now installing as OEM! :banghead: Even if 'real' load testing says the battery is 'good', if it doesn't keep & show 12 volts or better for each of those tests, including the cranking/starting test, then this slow cranking/cranking failure is either happening already, or it will be happening soon! :cus:

So, what you're experiencing sounds awfully much to me like that just like so many of the recently supplied OEM batteries, your battery simply does not have the grunt/green steam capacity to turn the motor over AND start up all the computers etc at the same time!! :gaah: The only other likely scenario is that the starter &/or solenoid has failed/shorted in some way... :dontknow:

If your bike and the battery is still under warranty (battery's generally have a shorter warranty period than the rest of the bike. ) see if you can get them to replace it with a better quality battery than the OEM rubbish units they're installing these days; if not, make sure you get a better-quality battery - you NEED at least 350CCA & 21 A/h, preferably over 20 hrs, altho 10 seems to work pretty well for most. And YOU NEED to make sure that the battery is fully charged BEFORE installing it - don't just take the retailer's word that it's charged, especially if they just pulled a battery off the shelf & said 'You're good to go!" If they haven't had it on a charger for at least 8 hours before it goes in your Spyder, then IT'S NOT PROPERLY CHARGED!!

A new battery NEEDS to be charged at 1-2 amps for at least 8 hours before being installed - failure to do that means that there's a very good chance you'll be having battery issues again, and they'll be coming your way sooner rather than later! :lecturef_smilie:

Good Luck! :cheers:

 

[Poppie65]

After I took the voltage readings that Peter suggested, I decided to purchase the lithium battery pack that's sold by Lamonster, if for no other reason than to rule out a 2nd weak battery. It was delivered quickly, I charged it up overnight then installed it and got the exact same results. I don't have any regrets in this purchase, but it just proved that the problem was something bigger than a bad battery.

The Folks from the dealership came to our home and picked up our Spyder back on March 23rd.
We'd already locked in a service appointment for April 3rd, which was the earliest opening that they had.
I called today (the 4th) for an update and learned that the starter assembly tested bad and was ordered yesterday (the 3rd) with a expected delivery for the replacement from BRP sometime next week.

 

[Poppie65]

The dealer replaced the starter assembly and I picked up our Spyder today. I noticed that the RO listed 2 quarts of oil, so I called back and asked about that. They reported that some oil loss is inherent when the starter is removed. So to be on the safe side, I cranked it back up and let it idle for several minutes then shut it off and checked the level. Looks good and I'm happy to have it back.

 

[Woodaddict]

The dealer replaced the starter assembly and I picked up our Spyder today. I noticed that the RO listed 2 quarts of oil, so I called back and asked about that. They reported that some oil loss is inherent when the starter is removed. So to be on the safe side, I cranked it back up and let it idle for several minutes then shut it off and checked the level. Looks good and I'm happy to have it back.

HMMMMMMM....... I don't know these engines superbly, but trying to understand why you need oil??? Starter runs in oil?? Or an outside part of the engine cover has to be taken off to get starter out?? HMMMMMM!!!!!

 

[ThreeWheels]

The dealer replaced the starter assembly and I picked up our Spyder today. I noticed that the RO listed 2 quarts of oil, so I called back and asked about that. They reported that some oil loss is inherent when the starter is removed. So to be on the safe side, I cranked it back up and let it idle for several minutes then shut it off and checked the level. Looks good and I'm happy to have it back.

I'm glad it all worked out for you and Thank You very much for reporting back. Oftentimes, someone posts a problem and then we don't know how the issue was resolved. In your case, it's particularly instructive because I, like so many others, focused on the battery. Now we know different.
Again, thanks for posting the final result.
Happy riding.

 

[BajaRon]

I apologize for not reading all the posts. So, this may be redundant. But a trickle charger (maintainer) will not bring a low charged battery back to full charge. They are designed to maintain a fully charged battery only. If your battery is low, you need to use a charger designed to bring it to a full charge first, then put it on a maintenance battery tender.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I apologize for not reading all the posts. So, this may be redundant. But a trickle charger (maintainer) will not bring a low charged battery back to full charge. They are designed to maintain a fully charged battery only. If your battery is low, you need to use a charger designed to bring it to a full charge first, then put it on a maintenance battery tender.

Well I reported 6 mos. ago that I did just that ..... not a Spyder battery, it was an automotive one .... it took about 4 days & did use a regular charger to initially Jolt it ... But right now that battery is still holding a charge and it's been outside all winter .....just sayin ....Mike :thumbup:

 

[Peteoz]

I apologize for not reading all the posts. So, this may be redundant. But a trickle charger (maintainer) will not bring a low charged battery back to full charge. They are designed to maintain a fully charged battery only. If your battery is low, you need to use a charger designed to bring it to a full charge first, then put it on a maintenance battery tender.

Yes, although most decent bits of gear these days perform both tasks, Ron. Mine does a bulk charge to bring the battery back to full charge, then moves to a trickle/maintenance charge to hold it there

Pete

 

[ReRose]

Wife has a 2020 Spyder RTL and after the 2nd winter sitting in the garage on a maintainer charger it did not want to start but finally did. Threw a regular charger on it and no problem that summer. Same thing after the 3rd winter only the VSS light came on. She got a battery from Lamonster and now cranks like crazy fast for a quick fire up. Do not know how long it will last but the old battery sits on my work bench on the maintainer and is used as a test battery when I need 12 volts for something.

 

[KAMJAM]

I bought my 2020 Spyder and picked it up in March of 2020.
By March 2022 the factory YUASA battery was dead. Prior to its premature demise, the Spyder would turn over slowly.
It's true, "They don't make 'em like they used to".
I was stranded and needed an immediate replacement.
I got a battery at Oreilly's.
I don't have a lot of faith in modern batteries, I've also had problems with the marine batteries on my boat.
I figured, I'd better change out the Spyder battery for the 2024 riding season, so I don't get stranded again.
I wound up getting the NOCO LIPO battery I bought from Lamonster.
It's supposed to last 10 times as long.
The only problem I've found so far is that I needed to replace my battery tender with a more modern one that allows for the LIPO battery chemistry.

I ran into to similar situation - our 2020 RT's were "left over" models that we purchased in 2021. My battery went bad in 6 months, I'm guessing that it was on the show room floor w/o any battery maintenance for months. I installed a MotoBatt from Slingmods, it lasted just over a year before the slow cranking happened, and the brass terminals had evidence of corrosion (leakage?) We made the jump to Noco LiPo batteries recently (already had the chargers) and haven't looked back.