2018 RTL-passenger and rider heated grips not turning off! Any ideas?

[NuttyBuckeye]

Will not automatically turn off when ignition key is turned to OFF. I can also toggle the switches ON when the key is removed from the ignition. Driver and passenger grips will heat up. The passenger switch will light up as well.

I noticed this issue last year when i last used the heated grips and discovered a dead battery after parking the bike in the garage for an afternoon.

Basic Testing Notes:
1. I removed relay R4 (load shedding) and kept Fuse F5 connected:
Result: Rider and passenger heated grip switches not active (do not turn on). Fog lamp switch not active (does not turn on). Horn works.
2. I removed fuse F5 and reinstalled relay R4:
Result: same as Test 1. except horn also did not work.

I've searched for several days googling as many different ways to phrase it, but nothing comes close. I've looked at the wiring diagram to see if i could stumble my way to any other common connection that these switches share, but lack the electrical expertise. Thought I would throw it out here to see if anyone has an idea.

I may be visiting a qualified technician come Spring.

Edit to add: I think both the Relay and Fuse are good based on my basic tests?

 

[K80Shooter]

I would swap the relay with another just to check it. If it's stuck it could cause this, I think.

 

[NuttyBuckeye]

I would swap the relay with another just to check it. If it's stuck it could cause this, I think.

Same results. Good idea though. Thanks.

 

[BertRemington]

According to my 2014 wiring diagram, the fog lights (and ACS) are on the same load shedding circuit as the front and rear heated grips. Is you fog light switch still functional after turning off the ignition? This test confirms that circuit.

The load shedding relay is solely controlled by the instrument cluster. What is your instrument cluster doing when you turn the ignition on and off without starting the engine? Does it follow the grips (and fog light) power in any manner?

Do you have any powered accessories installed?

 

[NuttyBuckeye]

According to my 2014 wiring diagram, the fog lights (and ACS) are on the same load shedding circuit as the front and rear heated grips. Is you fog light switch still functional after turning off the ignition? This test confirms that circuit.

The load shedding relay is solely controlled by the instrument cluster. What is your instrument cluster doing when you turn the ignition on and off without starting the engine? Does it follow the grips (and fog light) power in any manner?

Do you have any powered accessories installed?

-I can switch on fog lamps with the key removed from the ignition.
-turning key on shows the usual cluster of icons, then is replaced by the normal startup cluster of safety card yada yada, park brake engaged light on and gear light on (N). Then loading of all accessible functions.
-turning key off displays parking brake engaged and gear.
-have no powered accessories installed.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[BertRemington]

Fog lamp operation was as I expected.

-turning key off displays parking brake engaged and gear.

This is quite concerning. The load shedding relay is solely controlled by the instrument cluster by driving the relay coil to ground.

Do you feel comfortable testing the load shedding relay socket with a DVOM?

According to my 2014 wiring diagram R4 is SPST with 4 terminals. Two of the terminals would have +12 from F5, a third terminal would go to the cluster, and the fourth to the load circuits (grips, fog, ACS). I haven't looked to see if its a Bosch-style ISO relay or a 280 style. Once you know the style, it's easy to determine the ST and coil terminals. One of the ST and one of the coil terminals will have +12. The opposite ST terminal is load and the opposite coil terminal is cluster. I suspect an ohmmeter would show that coil terminal is shorted to ground. If you do measure this terminal what is the exact resistance? The difference between a short and a low resistance will probably be important for follow-on fault isolation.

 

[NuttyBuckeye]

Fog lamp operation was as I expected.



This is quite concerning. The load shedding relay is solely controlled by the instrument cluster by driving the relay coil to ground.

Do you feel comfortable testing the load shedding relay socket with a DVOM?

According to my 2014 wiring diagram R4 is SPST with 4 terminals. Two of the terminals would have +12 from F5, a third terminal would go to the cluster, and the fourth to the load circuits (grips, fog, ACS). I haven't looked to see if its a Bosch-style ISO relay or a 280 style. Once you know the style, it's easy to determine the ST and coil terminals. One of the ST and one of the coil terminals will have +12. The opposite ST terminal is load and the opposite coil terminal is cluster. I suspect an ohmmeter would show that coil terminal is shorted to ground. If you do measure this terminal what is the exact resistance? The difference between a short and a low resistance will probably be important for follow-on fault isolation.

It’s always displayed the park brake and current gear light icons on shutdown. I considered that a normal display.

I can test the relay tomorrow. Watching football off and on right now. I did swap it for another similar one from the other box and produced the same results.

I wonder if the connection on the box for the relay is suspect.

Worse case is taking it in the Spring to a tech for diagnosis and troubleshooting that area of the system. Maybe the Winter months will give me some time to learn more about it.

Really appreciate this site. I’m not on much, but it’s here when I need it.

I’m open to all suggestions because it helps me to learn.

 

[BertRemington]

NB -- I wasn't asking about testing the relay. I was asking about testing the relay socket connections. If I'm correct there is a short or low resistance to ground on the relay coil terminal to instrument cluster circuit that is improperly holding R4 closed.

 

[NuttyBuckeye]

NB -- I wasn't asking about testing the relay. I was asking about testing the relay socket connections. If I'm correct there is a short or low resistance to ground on the relay coil terminal to instrument cluster circuit that is improperly holding R4 closed.

Ah, ok. I agree with that. Seems to be a logical place to check.

 

[Snowbelt Spyder]

Hey NB. How ‘bout them Browns. Will drive anybody nutty. I read your first post about 10 times. And I know that you swapped relays. Bottom line is that the electrical contacts in the relay are closed, and allowing power to flow, when they’re supposed to be open. You proved that the circuit properly opens when you removed the relay from the socket. The question is, whether the relay itself has failed or has something gone haywire with the cluster, keeping it turned on when it should be turning it off.

The most probable failure is that the relay has broken internally and that the electrical contacts are stuck closed. I don’t see anywhere in your testing that you proved that the relay was good.

I’m not a fan of swapping relays when there are two different styles in there that look alike. I know, it’s easy for me to spend other people’s money, but I would just replace that relay with new. You don’t need to buy a BRP part. Just take it to the auto parts store. They will cross reference it and probably have one in stock.

If the problem still persists after that, then you’ll know that you’ve eliminated that possibility.

 

[NuttyBuckeye]

Hey NB. How ‘bout them Browns. Will drive anybody nutty. I read your first post about 10 times. And I know that you swapped relays. Bottom line is that the electrical contacts in the relay are closed, and allowing power to flow, when they’re supposed to be open. You proved that the circuit properly opens when you removed the relay from the socket. The question is, whether the relay itself has failed or has something gone haywire with the cluster, keeping it turned on when it should be turning it off.

The most probable failure is the relay. I don’t see anywhere in your testing that you proved that the relay was good.

I’m not a fan of swapping relays when there are two different styles in there that look alike. I know, it’s easy for me to spend other people’s money, but I would just replace that relay with new. You don’t need to buy a BRP part. Just take it to the auto parts store. They will cross reference it and probably have one in stock.

Browns are adding to my gray hair, lol. What are ya gonna do though, they’ve been my team since someone else was wiping my nose. I remember my Dad on the roof fiddling with the antenna to get a good feed from Toledo when he couldn’t get the local station.

Good idea from you as well on swapping out relay with new.

All great info/suggestions so far. A good project to learn more about the Spyder.

 

[Snowbelt Spyder]

I think that relay is the same one they’ve been using since the beginning. Probably this one:

Duralast 19271 41-5100 relay. Around 10 bucks at autozone. Let them look it up to be sure. See what they say.

 

[BertRemington]

That's an ISO 280 style relay in the mini size although according to my 2014 wiring diagram it will be 4 not 5 terminals. Note the diagram on the side. 86 and 85 are the coil terminals, with the little rectangle next to the coil being a resistor (often 680 ohms) to reduce peak voltages when the coil circuit opens and therefore protect the typically semiconductor driver (also helps contact operation). Convention is the 86 terminal (and 30 terminal) are the +12 supply voltages and the 85 terminal is the control voltage but that's just a convention. After confirming the +12 terminals on the socket then measure the resistance on the control terminal. BTW if you measure the resistance on the load terminal you should see it change when operating the heated grips and fog light switches. This is a good test to confirm your measurements.

 

[NuttyBuckeye]

That's an ISO 280 style relay in the mini size although according to my 2014 wiring diagram it will be 4 not 5 terminals. Note the diagram on the side. 86 and 85 are the coil terminals, with the little rectangle next to the coil being a resistor (often 680 ohms) to reduce peak voltages when the coil circuit opens and therefore protect the typically semiconductor driver (also helps contact operation). Convention is the 86 terminal (and 30 terminal) are the +12 supply voltages and the 85 terminal is the control voltage but that's just a convention. After confirming the +12 terminals on the socket then measure the resistance on the control terminal. BTW if you measure the resistance on the load terminal you should see it change when operating the heated grips and fog light switches. This is a good test to confirm your measurements.

Yes, it is a 4-terminal. Thanks for the helpful instructions.