2012 Spyder RS Tyres

[dicko]

About to replace my tyres but the sizes are hard, if not impossible, to get.

My 2008 Spyder ran MC 165/65 R14 47H on the front and MC 225/50 R15 68H on the rear. The Spyder went to god with 36,000 kms on it. First 2 Kenda rears lasted 10,000 kms. The 3rd rear was a Toyo car tyre that was still looking good with 16,000 kms on it. Original fronts lasted 25,000 kms and replacement Kenda were looking good at 36,000 kms.

Replaced with a 2012 Spyder which runs same tyres. Spyder has 30,000 kms on it. Still running original fronts but RH has scrubbed on inside. LH still looking good but planning to replace both and have steering looked at. Just about worn out 3rd Kenda rear. Planning to get a Toyo or similar car for rear and car tyres for the front.

Anyone running 165/65 R14 car tyres on front? OK? The originals are 1-ply walls. Car tyres are at least 2-ply hence maybe stiffer.
Do I really need the H speed rating or will T do? I will avoid anything lower.
The load ratings are also significantly higher than required.

 

[Peter Aawen]

Dicko, here in Oz, our Nationally Mandated Rules say that you have to at least match or exceed the specified load and speed ratings printed on the tyre placard, regardless of what size tyre you use; so if the 14" Kendas are 'H' rated, then that's the MINIMUM Speed rating any replacement tyre is permitted to have. Similarly with the load rating, you must at least match or exceed that shown on the tyre placard. If you are in any way concerned, your local Rego Authorities have a number of guides & sources of information relating to what tyre size & rating changes are allowed, so it shouldn't be too hard for you to check up on this & confirm it to your own satisfaction - and I generally recommend that with regard to things like this, it's a good idea to check with your local Authorities. :thumbup:

Now that the speed & load rating concerns are sorted, you should also be aware that just so long as you only ever fit an auto tyre with a 'J' type bead onto a 'J' type rim (like those our Spyders run! ) you don't have to EXACTLY match the nominal tyre size shown on the sidewall when you replace them - regardless of that nominal sidewall size you are permitted to increase the width &/or vary the profile a little just so long as the ACTUAL wheel track width (which for Spyders, is only applicable up front! ) doesn't vary by more than 25mm; and at either end, the ACTUAL tyre rolling diameter doesn't vary by more than +/-15 mm from that of the OE Spec tyre shown on the tyre placard (nb: while I believe those dimensions are still correct, I haven't recently checked the latest rulings specific to Vic :lecturef_smilie: ) So this gives you some scope to fit some better/different sized tyres, possibly also in a more readily available size; and as you've already surmised, just about any 'P' (Passenger) type auto tyre run at a pressure appropriate to the (much lighter) load a Spyder imposes upon them vs that needed for the weight of most cars WILL almost certainly be better AND cheaper than the OE spec Kendas! :shocked: hyea:

Good Luck! :cheers:

Ps: to anyone who might feel tempted to complain about my use & spelling of the word 'tyre' instead of the US preferred 'tire' please note that just like me, Dicko's an Aussie too; so I've used the correct spelling of that word in Australia & most of the rest of the 'Queen's English' speaking World!

 

[dicko]

Peter. When you say tyre placard do you mean the recommendations in the user manual or is there something stamped on the Spyder somewhere? There are only a couple of H rated 165/65R14 tyres available.

PS: I worked for a US Motor company for 27 years and had to learn American spelling and other quirks (boot vs trunk). Even though I got most of my reports correct, they were still all "word-smithed" before being presented to the intended US recipient.

 

[Peter Aawen]

On your Aus Spec Spyder Dicko, there should be a 'Tyre Information' placard affixed under the seat on the kerb side of the main spar (LHS) - that's the one any 'Authority' here will refer to if it ever comes down to it, so even if there is one in the manual, unless it exactly matches the placard under the seat, then it's not necessarily correct & it's never going to be considered 'authoritative'... and besides, BRP is renowned for never getting their manual updates correct at the best of times!

As for tyre sizes, why restrict yourself to 165/65R14's with any load/speed rating?? :dontknow: You should be able to find other suitable sizes, like saayyy, 175/60 or maybe 55's with appropriate speed/load ratings to suit; in fact, I'm pretty sure there are a few early Spyders out there running 185/50R14's with up to V or Z speed ratings &/or 81 or even 96 Load Ratings on them.... Altho admittedly, the 185's may have needed to add a couple of washers to the fender brackets so they'd fit without rubbing the fender's inside edges!! pps:

OR, if you want to find yourself a pair of Spyder 15" 'take-offs' or maybe some early Smart Car 15" rims fairly cheaply, you could then readily run 175/60R15 81H tyres up front, and probably get a little better handling into the bargain! Just don't lock yourself into 165/65's simply cos BRP purposefully chose a bastard size to make it difficult for anyone to readily find many size matching alternatives so they could foist their more expensive rubbish things off on us!! :cus: IMHO, the OE spec Kendas are probably the most significant ride & handling drawback/restriction our Spyder/Rykers have!! :gaah:

 

[dicko]

Peter.

Cannot find tyre info on any stickers under seat. The manual recommends MC 165/65 R14 47H on the front and MC 225/50 R15 68H but the specifications just say 165/65 R14 on the front and 225/50 R15 on rear. No MC or H rating. My neighbour has a Tyrepower franchise and although Typrepower doesn't mention the sizes I'm after, he stocks the brands that do have the sizes. He can balance the fronts. Had that done before. But I do need an alignment.

Just remembered I bought my profile pic (AA) from the guys who used run the Flat Earth Rally in SA. Run into quite a few Spyders at bike rallies in Western Vic and Eastern SA.

 

[Peter Aawen]

The rims on your Spyder are 'J' type Auto rims - it's illegal in Aust for any tyre retailer to knowingly install a tyre that isn't a tyre with a 'J' type bead on them, so you can ignore anything that refers to 'MC' Tyres - they have a different bead profile and so are illegal in Aust on the rims we run on our Spyders! (Check the sidewalls on your current Kendas, I think they might even say 'Must be fitted to 'J' type rims' or something along those lines... )

But your Spyder SHOULD have a Tyre Information Placard somewhere (if it passed ADR's & was legally sold in Aust, anyway!! ) Maybe yours is down on the swingarm? Or maybe it's been removed - in which case you could end up in the brown smelly stuff!! :shocked: You might want to search for it, and if you can't find one anywhere, talk to your dealer about getting a replacement.... do you ever need to get your Spyder inspected in Vic?? :dontknow: If so, you'll need to have that Tyre Placard fitted in the appropriate place by then, just like you need an engine number & a VIN, but in the case of the Tyre Placard, it is only a sticker! :thumbup:

Similarly, the tyres themselves MUST have a Load Index & Speed Rating printed on their sidewalls SOMEWHERE in order for them to be legally sold in Aust - I'm pretty sure it'll be there somewhere. Unless maybe whoever last fitted Kendas onto YOUR particular Spyder used cheaply constructed but dodgy import tyres that somehow avoided all the necessary ADR compliance stuff so they could sell them at a ridiculously high profit margin?! :sour: Hang on, these ARE Kendas we're talking about, aren't they???... Cheaply constructed crap? Check! Dodgy as?? Check! Cost waaayyy more than most others..... Hmmm, anyone else detecting a bit of a pattern developing here?? Nah! They couldn't have..... could they?! :shocked:


If you've only seen 'quite a few' Spyders out this way, then you must've missed out on the Spyder Musters (see www.ozspyderryders.com &/or www.spydermuster.com.au) we ran 2 of them in Talbingo, Southern NSW, 2015 & 2016; and then 2 over here in Hahndorf, SA, 2017 & 2018, after which I retired (exhausted) from the Committee; then there was a NSW based Spyder Roulle in 2019 (was that at Bathurst??); and there would've been a Spyder Muster in WA this year, except for the obvious issues causing 2 postponements; and I think the 2021 event is planned for SE Qld - see the Muster website for the latest info. There were HEAPS of Ozzie Spyders at all of those, in turn being the biggest Southern Hemisphere Spyder Gatherings I believe; and then there were the smaller Echuca runs; the June Long Weekends in the Grampians; Apollo Bay & Lorne gatherings, and more..... in 'more normal' years, there's quite a few Spyders around the place and quite a few out this way too.... altho I haven't been able to get too many takers for the 1000km/12 hour South East Silo Art Run that I tested out a coupla years back - everyone seems to think it's an Iron Butt Ride instead of just the enjoyable (12 hour) ride day it's meant to be, or they want to make a bleedin' long weekend of it! :shocked: :gaah:

 

[dicko]

Peter.

Wheeled the Spyder out into the sunshine and there were the details on the top of the LH swing arm. Now it appears that I can only source these tyres via a Spyder dealer. That would appear to be a constraint of trade (illegal?). Car tyre shops (when fitting cars) appear to only fit what is on the placard or better. No brand specified. Never had a non-Kenda on front before but have had a TOYO on the back. Looking at a pair of MAXXIS MAP1 165/65R14 79H. There are others (eg. Kenda KR23) with a H rating but these are all mail-order although there is a tyre-fitter who does mail-order via Tyroola.

The MAXXIS floated to the top. Even better is that it's available from my neighbour's Tyrepower franchise. He can balance but I really need the front end aligned. RH tyre scrubbed.

The sizes on my 2012 990 Spyder don't even appear in the Kenda catalogue. May be out of production. Hence car tyres maybe the only option.

 

[dicko]

Been researching.

The Australian Federal Govt classifies the Spyder as a LEM2 category vehicle. A tyre placard must be attached to the vehicle clearly showing the rim and tyre sizes, and tyre inflation pressures applicable to that vehicle. No mention of brand. Tyres must be at least the load rating on the placard. Tyres must be at least speed rating S. So I think a car tyre is applicable. Also no mention on sidewall ply.

 

[Peter Aawen]

Yep, that's been said here many times before. :thumbup: It's even pushing the envelope of legality for a dealer to just SAY or INFER that you can not fit anything but an OE Spec/manufacturer supplied item instead of anything that is a 'form, fit, & function' substitute that meets or exceeds the OE Spec (and there have been some succesful prosecutions here in Aust on that too! :lecturef_smilie: ) So just so long as the tyre you choose is a 'P' (for Passenger tyre, which means that unless otherwise stated, it comes with a 'J' type bead profile ) that meets or exceeds the load & speed ratings on that placard and that falls within the mandated size variations for your State (mentioned earlier) then you're good to go! hyea:

Ps: I got to do over 1000km of pretty exhaustive testing on Maxxis tyres, and they handled everything thrown at them pretty well. Off the top of my head, I don't think we went on to do any tread life/longevity tests on them, but I'll have a look later & see if there's any data I can share. Regardless, I really doubt you'll be too disappointed with those, just so long as you match the pressures you run to the load/pressure data printed on the sidewall & the load your Spyder puts on those tyres. I'm pretty sure that the Maxxis fall into the same 14-18 psi range recommended for most other Auto tyres tho.

Cheers :cheers:

 

[Woodaddict]

thats a serious out of tracking front tire wear!!!!!!!!! alot of places to look, control A arms, universal joints, toe in / out ????? frame bent??? how does this spyder handle in curves?

 

[dicko]

thats a serious out of tracking front tire wear!!!!!!!!! alot of places to look, control A arms, universal joints, toe in / out ????? frame bent??? how does this spyder handle in curves?

The ABS/Traction Control kicks in very quickly when stopping not in a straight line. Goes into limp mode. Then I have stop, wait and restart to get it to turn off. Handles okay but it’s the stopping offline in loose stuff that causes an issue. Just had a similar problem with my 4WD that was rectified with a front end alignment.