2010 RT reliability and other questions.

[mnefred]

Hi all, and appologies in advance for a long post. I've been a long time lurker here, and you have all been of more help than you'll ever know. Thank you!!! Before you read the list below, please know that this isn't a rant. I really do have some questions I need help with that will make more sense at the end. I also realize that many of the problems I've had are common to the 2010 RT.
To set the stage, I have the afore mentioned '10 RT A&C SM5. It was purchased new on May 8th of 2011. Of course that's Mother's Day, something my wife will NEVER let me forget! I ryde her every single day I can, which here on beautiful Whidbey Island WA is almost every day of the year. As of this post I have just short of 11,000 miles. Obviously I love the bike, and she is my daily driver.

First up is the list of problems I've had fixed under warranty pretty much in the order they occured. Except for #1 and #15 which I did myself because it cost me less in time and gas than driving the 50 miles each way to the dealership. I also had to buy the shock cover in #11.

1. Rear cargo warnings and front trunk release inop. - Moved jumper in the air suspension switch plug to the correct position.

2. After first 600 mile service, bike suddenly runs differently. Choppier idle, more power, I suspect a timing change. Dealership insists they did nothing other than hook up to BUDS. - If the BUDS changed the timing and/or the fuel curves from a restricted break-in set, I'm okay with that. What I don't like is that the mechanic doesn't know about it, and it isn't mentioned in any of the books.

3. Also after the 600 mile service, the tupperware rattled. - Found three missing grommets, obviously a hit on the dealership. I did find out here recently that the 2011's have attached grommets, and there are new grommets for the 2010's that are larger on the outside. No Warranty Campaign to fix them, just a new part number.

4. Gas cap comes loose between fill ups. - Cap replaced.

5. Rear air suspension leaks. - Air bag replaced.

6. Gas cap seal split, broke into three pieces. - Cap replaced again. They couldn't get just the special o-ring.

7. Left turn signal intermittantly turns itself on. - Left switch cluster replaced.

8. Left turn signal intermittantly does not work. - Left switch cluster replaced again.

9. Gas gauge fluctuates. - Gauge replaced.

10. Rear shock bad. - Shock replaced. Note that I complained about the shock from day one, but it finally had to get really bad before they'd change it.

11. Rear shock had a rock stuck between the shock and the spring. - This is caused by the narrowly wound coils of the springs being mounted at the bottom. I asked the dealership to turn it over when they replaced the shock, they said they could not deviate from the book. I bought a pair of shock covers for a snowmobile and the mechanic put one on for me during the shock change.

12. Park brake cable came off the actuator, caused by cable not retracting. This caused multiple codes and error messages, and a bike that wouldn't start for 30 minutes. This happened at 11:30 at night in near freezing temps. Fortunately it happened when I shut it off at home, and not at the card lock gas pumps that were my previous stop! - I lubed and put the cable back on the actuator, the dealership re-clocked the aft pulley, and re-adjusted the parking brake.

13. Cruise control inop. - Replaced the right switch cluster. The bike was in the shop for a week on this one,because BRP sent them a box with the correct part number on the outside, but yet another left switch cluster on the inside.

14. Seat will not stay up when temps get down around freezing. - Gaz strut replaced.

15. Radio antenna fell off. - I had to buy a 6mm tap to chase the threads, then installed as per Warranty Campaign 2010-6. I know that campaign had not been complied with as I was told, because there was no trace of locktite, and the receptacle was not tapped far enough down for the antenna to tighten against the lock washer. Probably another hit on the dealership fo a poor PDI.

Problems that aren't fixed.

1. Gas smell while stopped or at very low speeds. - This one is caused by the exhaust pipes that cross under the fuel tank heating the tank to the point the fuel is boiling inside. Happens most when the weather is warm and the tank is near empty. You can check this by looking inside the tank when you're having the problem. Watch your eyes when you take the cap loose, and I sure hope I don't have to say "Don't use a match!!!" BRP installed some thin pieces of insulation on the bottom of the tank in the problem areas, but not nearly enough. I would have thought wrapping the pipes would have been a better solution. The dealership will do nothing about it, because it is "by the book".

2. Left switch cluster is loose. - I understand some dealerships have been able to fix this, but mine won't deviate from the book so it stays as a design flaw.

3. Stiching is failing on the driver's seat. - In all fairness I haven't asked for a warranty fix on this because I'm planning on a custom seat here shortly.

4. Stering is 'jerky' in corners - Mainly a problem on high G corners, especially when I'm being less than smooth. Seems worse in colder temps, but that might be because I'm worse then too.

5. Brake pedal is not adjustable. - On most bikes you can adjust the brake pedal linkage to account for different foot angles. The RT's shifter pedal is adjustable but not the brake.

As you can tell from the problem count, there has not been a single month since I bought the bike that it hasn't been in the shop for something. That's especially true since the dealership's procedure requires me to bring it in for a diagnosis, so they can order the parts, then a second trip in for the actual repair. They also hate the fact I won't just leave it with them. Since it is my primary transpo, that means I get to wander around the show room and sit on all the new bikes while they're working on mine.

Now for the questions.
Of the problems that have been fixed, are they staying fixed? You'll notice I've had two of my repairs repeat so far.
Are these problems still showing up on the '11 and '12 models?
Anybody have any suggestions on the "not fixed" problems?

Thanks a million for all your past help, and your patience on this post. I really didn't intend to publish a book!
Mark

 

[draboo]

I have a question: Why are you going 50 miles for service? What dealer are you using? There is a dealer in Mt. Vernon.

I also have a 2010 RT and have had no problems, other than a broken shock adjuster.

Wife and I are moving to OR in May. We'all should get together for ride/lunch before then. We live near I-5 exit 221/Conway area.

I ll pm you my cell number.

Brad

 

[draboo]

OOPS..that probably IS your dealer! I didn't realize Coupevile was so far away, across Deception Pass, etc.

 

[mnefred]

Lifestyles

Hi draboo,
Got your PM. Yep, my dealer is Lifestyles. I didn't mention them by name in my first post, because I didn't want to slam them. They really are a nice bunch of guys, and they have taken care of me on 99% of my issues. Some of the things I have heartache with are 'industry standard'. Especially the 'leave it here for a couple of weeks' mode of service. I also can't really blame them for following the book, or not ordering parts until they have the blessing of Mother BRP. Unfortunately that doesn't always get my bike fixed either...

 

[draboo]

The next time you head to the dealer, give me a call. I live just down the road.

 

[Farmboy]

sorry to hear about your prob. your not alone. I have had almost every prob you have had. all ok now.

 

[chris56]

my 2010RT-SE has now more than 13.000 mls .. only problem was the rear shock (got a new one in 2010) and i lost the Antenna ..

had to pay for the new 2011 front-shocks (original where unuseable..)-
thats all - rest still perfect
(its Nr 00064 - one of the first they built)

For our mountainroads here - I couldn`t find a right position so I still be waiting for adjustable handlebars ..

 

[ThreeWheels]

I haven't had the problems with the switch clusters that you have, but other than those, I've had them all and even more.

I keep hoping that I've finally worked out all the bugs in the Spyder and THIS year will be perfect.

I don't know what to tell you.
I like the machine.
I want a trike.
With ALL the problems, BRP and my dealer have been 120% supportive.
This is still my best option.
I am DEFINITELY getting the BEST Warranty before my factory warranty expires in May of this year

 

[NancysToy]

I know you say it is not a rant, but I see no other reason to list a bunch of problems that have already been addressed. It is OK to be frustrated, just tell it like it is. Say "I am disappointed because..." JMO It's OK tocome here and cry a little, especially when you have done it so politely.

Some of the issues you mention can and should be addressed by the dealer. They are known problems. Mainly I am speaking of the seat delamination at the bumstop, the loose control pods, and the parking brake problem. The rear parking brake drum spring should be replaced with the new design, as described in the appropriate service bulletin. The loose pod may be a "defect" but it is also addressable under terms of both the vehicle warranty and the Magnuson-Moss Act. A manufacturer cannot just sell a defective machine, and pawn it off as a known design defect. Frankly, your dealer is not treating you fairly, IMO.

Other issues such as the antenna, grommets, and the misplaced jumper have been addressed by the factory as time has gone by, but they are best addressed on older machines by the owner. Frankly, somme dealers just don't understand the problems or fixes well enough to do a good job. Additional items, such as the seat and the control pods, have also been addressed in later model years. BRP does listen (when the dealers bother to report the problems) and they do seem to respond well.

One last thing. The problem with your Spyder running roughly after the 600 mile service is likely a result of a damaged plug wire. Ham-fisted technicians cause this regularly. Getting them to admit it, recognize it, or repair it properly is almost impossible. You may be able to see the spark jump with the body panels off in a dark room, but it may just be due to increased resistance when they took off the plug boot too roughly. My guess is that a set of BajaRon's plug wires and some fresh plugs would cure your blues.

Sorry to hear that you are struggling with your Spyder. I know all too well what that is like, and how frustrating it can be. Rest assured that the Spyder RT can be made to run well and be reliable. You may have to learn to overlook some minor issues and pay close attention to things like the grommets and panel replacement, but it is a small price to pay for this marvelous machine. Your best bet would be to find a competent, interested, and sympathetic dealer, but in the absence of that option, you may have to tinker with things yourself, like you did with the antenna.

 

[mnefred]

Replies to the replies

Farmboy, thanks for the feedback. My biggest concern is whether the new parts are actually fixing the problems, or if the parts on the shelf have the same issues. It's very encouraging to hear your problems stayed fixed!

chris56, I hear you on the adjustable controls! At 6'5" the handlebars work out nicely for me, but I'd kill for adjustable foot pegs. I'm going to try a set of ISCI's floorboards next...

ThreeWheels, your feelings on the Spyder exactly match my own. Just want the bugs gone... I didn't get the BEST warranty either. Now I'm debating whether to buy it, or just trade up to an '11 or '12.

NancysToy, yep, much tinkering on my own. As a general rule I do all my own work, unless I feel it should be a warranty item, or it would cost me more in gas and time than it's worth.

BTW, Permatex #2 works wonderfully for gluing in grommets!

The ham-handed mechanic theory makes perfect sense. There were a couple of things I was unhappy with after that first service. I suspect that Mark, the 'Can Am Certified' mechanic was not the one who did my service, or at least not all of it. He has been the only one to work on the bike since then, and no more problems. We're planning a one month, 5000 mile trip this August and new plugs and wires were already on my list. I think I'll bump them up their priority a bit.

The seat issue is actually the stitching failing on the side right under my legs, instead of the bum stop delaminating. Looks like it's just flat worn through.

The loose control pod problem, according to the mechanic, is the locating pin on the cluster is much smaller than the hole in the handlebar. This lets the cluster rotate through a 10 or 15 degree arc. I'm told that wrapping the handlebar with tape during the install helps, but it isn't a factory approved fix. Seems to be more of a problem with the SM5's than the SE's. I would presume due to the different cluster w/out the paddle? I know every 2010 SM5 I've touched at the dealer has the problem, and all three of my clusters so far have done it. The 2011 SE5 I checked did not do it. I haven't had a chance to check any '11 or '12 SM5's. Anybody else noticed?

I had read here about the new spring for the park brake, but the dealer says that's only for the RS's. Would you know a service bulletin number I could refer them to?

I know you have a 2011 RT, did you have to work through any of these problems? I'd really hate to trade up, then have to start this process over again, so should I hold out for a '12?

Thanks again to everybody for the help, and the shoulder to cry on. Heaven knows I don't get any pity from my wife!

Mark

 

[CyncySpyder]

We had many issues with our 10 but not nearly as many with our 11

Warranty corrections aside, we haven't had nearly as many issues with our 11 :bowdown: :bowdown: I also worry about the replacement parts failing just like the originals. I know when we got our windshield mount replaced under warranty a couple weeks back, it was replaced by a part that even the Service Manager said he thinks is the same :lecturef_smilie: Another Spyder Ryder rolled up & we looked at his & his is cracked also :shocked: I really hope their not replacing defective parts with the same thing :banghead: But yeah, don't get me wrong, we love our Spyder :yes::thumbup: & the 2011 seemed to be much better than our 2010, but that could also be because we got our 2011 from Len & the crew at CowTown & I think everyone knows, when it comes to Spyders, they know what their doing :firstplace: & I honestly believe many issues with the 2010's were due to the learning curve of the dealer set-up & poor PDI pps:

 

[NancysToy]

The loose control pod problem, according to the mechanic, is the locating pin on the cluster is much smaller than the hole in the handlebar. This lets the cluster rotate through a 10 or 15 degree arc. I'm told that wrapping the handlebar with tape during the install helps, but it isn't a factory approved fix. Seems to be more of a problem with the SM5's than the SE's. I would presume due to the different cluster w/out the paddle? I know every 2010 SM5 I've touched at the dealer has the problem, and all three of my clusters so far have done it. The 2011 SE5 I checked did not do it. I haven't had a chance to check any '11 or '12 SM5's. Anybody else noticed?

I had read here about the new spring for the park brake, but the dealer says that's only for the RS's. Would you know a service bulletin number I could refer them to?

I know you have a 2011 RT, did you have to work through any of these problems? I'd really hate to trade up, then have to start this process over again, so should I hold out for a '12?

My 2010 developed loose control pods. Both were replaced. My 2011 has not had that problem. Not sure whether the pod or the handlebar was redesigned, but I suspect the later parts should fit and solve the problem. At a certain point, it becomes quite disconcerting, and can cause some safety issues as it gets worse and worse. Shimming the bars will not help, but shimming the socket or the peg may do the job. A dealer that is unwilling to venture outside the box or call BRP for approval will never do it, though.

The park brake service bulletin is not just aimed at the RS, but it does only cover just the 2011s. BRP has given permission for a great number of 2010 RTs to be repaired under this bulletin however, and may have indicated that on WebBoss. Your dealer needs to contact BRP for permission. It is Warranty Campaign 2011-009 or 2011-010. A dealer has an obligation to repair a defect or failure whether or not it is covered under a warranty bulletin.

I had to work through a number of problems, including these, with my 2010. To be honest, I ran out of patience and understanding, too, so I traded when the opportunity arose. Some of my problems were far worse, and I would not have worried as much if my engine had run right. My old Spyder was repaired, and is being used as a shop bike for the tech facility at last I knew, so nothing is hopeless. Carlo rode it to Spyderfest last year. My 2011 has had the parking brake problem, which was addressed, and it has seen grommet issues like all of them, requiring gluing and some special care in pulling/replacing panels. The gas gauge is a lost cause on all of them eventually, IMO, including a recently reported 2012. Not sure what's going on with your seat. It may be a personal fit issue. I have not heard of it before. The rear suspension problems seem to be better, and early Spyders with the problems have been taken care of by BRP. The antenna has been redesigned. As far as the jerky steering, I'd suggest having your toe-in adjusted to the latest 3/32" in 6 feet spec, and having the front suspension parts checked for wear and loose components. I'd also do a steering recalibration. The jerking is not typical or normal, and could indicate a bad DPS if these things don't make it better. If corrections in the corner are your major beef, the 2011 shocks or Elkas will help considerably. The brake pedal is still not adjustable, as on many vehicles. It is something you will have to adapt to. The gas smell seems to be common, and hasn't changed. Your theory makes as much sense as anything. Wrapping the pipes may help...at least in that area. I have even considered installing an exposion-proof marine bilge vent fan.

 

[Coolbreeze]

your problems

Wow, can't believe all the problems you've had. I have a 2010 RT 5 speed. DPS, VSS and rear shock leak all fixed under warranty. Coming up on 20,000 miles and it's still going strong. Some have few problems and others have a lot. Wonder if there is anything to that old rumor that you shouldn't buy a car made on a certain day because the guy one the assembly line isn't up to snuff on that day? What was it, a Monday?

 

[bruiser]

Guess I'm one of the lucky few. I've had very few problems with our 2010 RTS SM5. The antenna was replaced under warranty. Had a few minor problems which we're handled by the dealer. And the dealer has improved considerably. Yes, the gas gage still fluctuates but I'm used to it. The gas smell is still there on hot days so I just don't add that little extra to the tank. Other than that, were still pleased with our :spyder2:. Would I like to have a 2012? You bet. But I just can't afford one right now.

 

[mnefred]

More replies

CyncySpyder, I think you're absolutely right as regards the learning curve. I can definitely say that the service from my dealer has improved over time. I haven't seen the cracked windshield problem yet.ray:

NancysToy, On the loose switch cluster I might take a look myself to see if there's anything I can do to help. If it gets too much worse, I might even try to get them to use the 2011 part numbers. I agree they need to spend some more time on the phone to BRP. If the park brake cable repeats, I'm certainly going to press the issue.
Thanks for the input on the steering issue. I hadn't realized there were new spec's on the toe in. I think I'll have the guys check this stuff, then maybe look at the shock idea if the problem persists. 99% of the problem is mid-corner corrections, but I also sometimes feel uncomfortable in strong crosswinds.
The adjustable brake pedal is something I keep hoping to see, along with adjustable floorboards. I have gotten used to having to lift my foot up on top of the peg for braking, but I'm afraid that might not be enough with the ISCI floorboards. Maybe I can get Inspector Gadget to make me something?:sour:
I like your bilge blower idea. It might even help just to move some air through there, just to keep things cooler. I think Lamontster once made the comment that leaving the belly pan off might also help the ventilation.

Coolbreeze, I don't know if it was a Monday, or if the guy just knew it was going to the Left Coast so I couldn't get to him.:joke:

 

[NancysToy]

.....99% of the problem is mid-corner corrections, but I also sometimes feel uncomfortable in strong crosswinds......

Replacing the shocks will do you a world of good. You won't believe the night and day difference between the 2010 and 2011 shocks...or the night and day difference yet again to the Elkas. The shocks were a glaring weakness on the 2010 Spyder. The mid-corner corrections will be much less with less body roll. Behavior in cross winds is greatly improved, too.

 

[Tonga]

An interesting read, Yes the Spyder is not perfect but it sure is fun to drive! Mine has had a few glitches taken care of by my Great Dealer and I am satisfied with it and him. I do hope that BRP are learning as time passes! My lower windshield bracket it cracked and I will get it replaced in the spring, hopefully with a revised stronger bracket?