NHTSA investigation update

[jerpinoy]

Thanks for this information and I'll just wait for now, If boiling gas was taking care off most fumes would have gone away. Just my two cents.

 

[2RTsGV]

Thanks for the info

You should not have been sent a recall letter.

U.S. Federal law prohibits a dealer from selling a recalled vehicle without first performing the recall work. S

Since the recall was released in September, 2013 and you did not buy your Spyder until March of 2014, it is most likely that the recall work had been completed before you bought it. It is very easy to tell . . . pop off the Tupperware on the right side and look at your master cylinder. If it is plain white plastic on top, the work was not done. If it is wrapped with insulation, it was done . . .

Thank you, I will do as you suggest this weekend

 

[Magdave]

Thanks for this information and I'll just wait for now, If boiling gas was taking care off most fumes would have gone away. Just my two cents.

:agree: Boiling gas is the root of the problem.

 

[DrewNJ]

...

 

[Raknid]

It is not just the '13s. Our 2012 has to sit in driveway after long rides... or the garage and living area reek of gasoline.

 

[jcthorne]

They all can have the problem given the right circumstances. The 2013s are a bit worse due to the reconfiguration of the frame and suspension redesign. The 13 has even less air flow through the engine bay and fuel tank area than previous years. So more folks have experienced the required heat load to vaporize the fuel in the tank. Still there are LOTS of owners that swear they do not have the problem. And yet I can clearly smell the fumes when they pull up and park in a group of bike at owners events. Many folks CANNOT smell gasoline vapors in low concentration. The vapors are still there and just as flammable.

Its a design defect they ALL have. and they ALL need to be fixed by BRP. the evaporative emissions system does not meet federal requirements. Its as simple as that. The recall will require that it does. That $7000 a day fine mentioned in the letter for delay of the response is peanuts compared to what the EPA will levy if they are found to have falsified emissions certifications. And it will be a continuous and ongoing fine until they are all fixed or reacquired. ALL. BRP has a thin line to walk here and needs to appear cooperative or it could get very ugly in the current NHTSA climate.

 

[CruiseRT]

My 2013 has always had the heat problem. When I took it back for the band-aid recall they found the evap canister almost burned completely through. Since that I have always used a box fan to cool it down after a ride. If you look under it after a ride, even if you have just filled it up with cool gas you can still see the fuel vapors coming from the vent hose (big time), this is every time I ride. With what I know now about the Spyder I wish I had spent my money on something else, and if BRP does not come up with a real fix, not just patch something with tin foil, it will be the last Spyder I will own.

 

[hchays]

I've been trying to keep my mouth shut on this topic, but I can't. There are several issues with the fuel smell (not all BRP's fault and certainly not the NHTSA's fault)! Yes, the Spyders do get hot under the plastic panels due to (my assumption) positioning of the cat converter. The 2013's tend to have more issues because that was the year BRP decided to take the cat out of the muffler and stuff it in the engine compartment. It is not just an RT issue (I know it's hard for a lot of RT owners to except that there is other models made). HOWEVER, here is where ALOT of Spyder riders (mostly RT riders) are at fault also. Posted in many threads are riders talking about shifting at low RPM's and riding at slow speeds (falling behind the other riders in groups) "because they want to enjoy the ride". There is no shame in wanting to enjoy the ride, I think we all do. But, It has been clearly stated by BRP and dealer service departments that it is recommended to shift at 5,000-5,500 RPM in order for the charcoal canister and evap system to work properly. If you are putting around (as many have stated they like to do) then your going to have issues with the system no matter what is done to solve the heat issue. So people can point the finger at BRP (and they certainly have some blame in this), but if your putting around on your Spyder it's time to start pointing the finger at yourself as well....

 

[Craniac]

I hooked a hose up to my evap canister vent after a ride. Then hit the vapor with an ignition source.
This is NOT safe.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jaherbst]

Agree 100%. The internet, and specifically these forums tend to really make it sound like the world is coming to an end. Remember, the majority of spyder riders have no idea what "spyderlovers" is and ride without giving it a second thought....the majority I'm sure are quite happy.

You must be saying then that ignorance is bliss!

Jack

 

[jaherbst]

I've been trying to keep my mouth shut on this topic, but I can't. There are several issues with the fuel smell (not all BRP's fault and certainly not the NHTSA's fault)! Yes, the Spyders do get hot under the plastic panels due to (my assumption) positioning of the cat converter. The 2013's tend to have more issues because that was the year BRP decided to take the cat out of the muffler and stuff it in the engine compartment. It is not just an RT issue (I know it's hard for a lot of RT owners to except that there is other models made). HOWEVER, here is where ALOT of Spyder riders (mostly RT riders) are at fault also. Posted in many threads are riders talking about shifting at low RPM's and riding at slow speeds (falling behind the other riders in groups) "because they want to enjoy the ride". There is no shame in wanting to enjoy the ride, I think we all do. But, It has been clearly stated by BRP and dealer service departments that it is recommended to shift at 5,000-5,500 RPM in order for the charcoal canister and evap system to work properly. If you are putting around (as many have stated they like to do) then your going to have issues with the system no matter what is done to solve the heat issue. So people can point the finger at BRP (and they certainly have some blame in this), but if your putting around on your Spyder it's time to start pointing the finger at yourself as well....

Unfortunately you are terribly mis informed on the whole matter. Retrofitting the 998 engine in the new frame because the 1330 was not ready is the main reason for the problems. Not enough space and air for the front exhaust that runs back and under the gas tank by 1 1/2 to 2 inches. Removing the CAT does nothing. I tried that also. Did not work. I was also a test source for BRP's latest campaign to solve this problem. This did not work either.

PS: If you knew how I ride you could hardly "paint" me as "putting" around. This is a real problem that has been more severe on the 2013 because of the above. I see you do not own an RT. You need to walk a mile in these moccasins before making the above remarks or get better informed. No disrespect meant here only seeking the truth.

Jack

 

[jcthorne]

I've been trying to keep my mouth shut on this topic, but I can't. There are several issues with the fuel smell (not all BRP's fault and certainly not the NHTSA's fault)! Yes, the Spyders do get hot under the plastic panels due to (my assumption) positioning of the cat converter. The 2013's tend to have more issues because that was the year BRP decided to take the cat out of the muffler and stuff it in the engine compartment. It is not just an RT issue (I know it's hard for a lot of RT owners to except that there is other models made). HOWEVER, here is where ALOT of Spyder riders (mostly RT riders) are at fault also. Posted in many threads are riders talking about shifting at low RPM's and riding at slow speeds (falling behind the other riders in groups) "because they want to enjoy the ride". There is no shame in wanting to enjoy the ride, I think we all do. But, It has been clearly stated by BRP and dealer service departments that it is recommended to shift at 5,000-5,500 RPM in order for the charcoal canister and evap system to work properly. If you are putting around (as many have stated they like to do) then your going to have issues with the system no matter what is done to solve the heat issue. So people can point the finger at BRP (and they certainly have some blame in this), but if your putting around on your Spyder it's time to start pointing the finger at yourself as well....

Couple of wrong points here that bear clarification.

ALL RTs have the cat under the midsection of the frame, not in the muffler or in the engine bay. The cat does add heat to the fuel tank but its only a small part of the problem. Granted, it all adds up.

The speed at which you ride has NOTHING to do with fuel vapors belched from the machine after it is parked. Further, any speed above the 3500rpm clutch lockup speed has been deemed normal operating RPM. The NHTSA will not accept that the bike will belch fuel vapors under ANY normal operating circumstances. That includes sitting in city traffic and low speed operation. This is normal operating condition, NOT a fault of the owners.

If BRP designed a touring bike to ONLY operate above 5500 rpm and above speeds of 50 mph, that is a design defect for the purpose for which it was sold, not improper operation.

Please DO NOT continue to attempt to point fingers at owners for a poorly designed and improperly working bike. BRP is SOLELY responsible for its safe design and emissions certification. Do it right, or don't sell it. That's the law.

 

[hchays]

Unfortunately you are terribly mis informed on the whole matter. Retrofitting the 998 engine in the new frame because the 1330 was not ready is the main reason for the problems. Not enough space and air for the front exhaust that runs back and under the gas tank by 1 1/2 to 2 inches. Removing the CAT does nothing. I tried that also. Did not work. I was also a test source for BRP's latest campaign to solve this problem. This did not work either.

PS: If you knew how I ride you could hardly "paint" me as "putting" around. This is a real problem that has been more severe on the 2013 because of the above. I see you do not own an RT. You need to walk a mile in these moccasins before making the above remarks or get better informed. No disrespect meant here only seeking the truth.

Jack

First of all I CLEARLY said that the cat is not the only issue! Second I CLEAR (once again) did not say all RT riders putt around! However there are SEVERAL people that have beat ST/RS/GS riders down because they do not putt around. I in no way pointed a finger at anyone specifically, but what I posted is a valid point weather you want to believe it or not. I don't need to ride an RT to know there is an issue. My RS has a heat issue as well, but I know the RT's are worse. I also did not say the cat was the only issue, but it does contribute to the problem.

 

[hchays]

Couple of wrong points here that bear clarification.

ALL RTs have the cat under the midsection of the frame, not in the muffler or in the engine bay. The cat does add heat to the fuel tank but its only a small part of the problem. Granted, it all adds up.

The speed at which you ride has NOTHING to do with fuel vapors belched from the machine after it is parked. Further, any speed above the 3500rpm clutch lockup speed has been deemed normal operating RPM. The NHTSA will not accept that the bike will belch fuel vapors under ANY normal operating circumstances. That includes sitting in city traffic and low speed operation. This is normal operating condition, NOT a fault of the owners.

If BRP designed a touring bike to ONLY operate above 5500 rpm and above speeds of 50 mph, that is a design defect for the purpose for which it was sold, not improper operation.

Please DO NOT continue to attempt to point fingers at owners for a poorly designed and improperly working bike. BRP is SOLELY responsible for its safe design and emissions certification. Do it right, or don't sell it. That's the law.

I'm pretty sure I mentioned very early in my post that it is not only an RT issue..... I was speaking of the ST/RS portion of the problem when I said they relocated the cat. I think you are the one that's mis-informed if you think the designed shift point is 3,500 rpm. I have spoken to 2 different service managers and someone that is much more informed about the situation than anyone on this site and my numbers have been confirmed. If your riding and shifting at a low RPM it does not allow the evap system to operate properly thus creating issues. I in no way said that the NHTSA says it's okay to have fumes emitting from the bike, but if the rider is not riding it the way it is suppose to be ridden then yes it is partially the riders fault. With your way of thinking if a rider with a manual clutch slips the clutch everytime they shift or at every stop light they are not to be held responsible for a burnt up clutch. I also CLEARLY said that BRP has blame in this issue!!
So do not attack my post if you do not read it. It is BRP's fault for the design and that the Spyders are getting hot, but if a rider does not ride it like it is designed to be ridden then they are contributing to the issue! So stop trying to blame EVERYTHING on someone else and acknowledge that SOME people CONTRIBUTE (not the total blame) the problem.

 

[bmwlarry]

I have a 2011 and have always had the gas smell very bad after a days ride. On one occasion last year on our ride to Colorado, It was hot and when we stopped for gas - I did hear the sound of boiling gas when I removed the cap. I generally let the bike sit outside if the weather is OK to clear the gas smells. I have never overfilled the bike and hope at some point, BRP will come up with affix.

 

[Magdave]

I'm pretty sure I mentioned very early in my post that it is not only an RT issue..... I was speaking of the ST/RS portion of the problem when I said they relocated the cat. I think you are the one that's mis-informed if you think the designed shift point is 3,500 rpm. I have spoken to 2 different service managers and someone that is much more informed about the situation than anyone on this site and my numbers have been confirmed. If your riding and shifting at a low RPM it does not allow the evap system to operate properly thus creating issues. I in no way said that the NHTSA says it's okay to have fumes emitting from the bike, but if the rider is not riding it the way it is suppose to be ridden then yes it is partially the riders fault. With your way of thinking if a rider with a manual clutch slips the clutch everytime they shift or at every stop light they are not to be held responsible for a burnt up clutch. I also CLEARLY said that BRP has blame in this issue!!
So do not attack my post if you do not read it. It is BRP's fault for the design and that the Spyders are getting hot, but if a rider does not ride it like it is designed to be ridden then they are contributing to the issue! So stop trying to blame EVERYTHING on someone else and acknowledge that SOME people CONTRIBUTE (not the total blame) the problem.

Well I NEVER ride under 5k RPM and I have all the issues. To paint yourself as the know all be all does not impress me there are plenty of us that have as much experience and knowledge as you. There is very little blame on the riders if any. Even riding it wrong will not make it run hotter and spew more fumes. You can let it idle in the driveway and get fumes. This thread is about BRP's responsibility not who has the most knowledge. It is not a debate about what the riders do wrong. It is simply an update on what is in the works. Thanks for your input.

 

[Dragonrider]

Perhaps just removing the two side panels will alleviate the problem (AKA the F3) - If BRP told the dealers to do that, would that be acceptable? It would certainly get the heat out.... as in all things mechanical, there is no perfect end point for everyone. Someone will continue to be unhappy.

 

[ekfraz]

heat

The gas fumes give me an upset stomach at times, the heat is the real problem. just a little vomit and burns on my inner thighs and gasoline boilimg, I am glad that gas does not burn.

 

[Deanna777]

My first spyder was a 2012RTS-SE5 I did not have any gas smell problems, traded it for a 2014RTS-SE6 Cognac, I like the new 1330 ACE Engine and all of the upgrades that BRP did.

Best of luck to the owners that have gas smell issues and ect. I am not going to say any more on this subject. Deanna

 

[vided]

I've been trying to keep my mouth shut on this topic, but I can't. There are several issues with the fuel smell (not all BRP's fault and certainly not the NHTSA's fault)! Yes, the Spyders do get hot under the plastic panels due to (my assumption) positioning of the cat converter. The 2013's tend to have more issues because that was the year BRP decided to take the cat out of the muffler and stuff it in the engine compartment. It is not just an RT issue (I know it's hard for a lot of RT owners to except that there is other models made). HOWEVER, here is where ALOT of Spyder riders (mostly RT riders) are at fault also. Posted in many threads are riders talking about shifting at low RPM's and riding at slow speeds (falling behind the other riders in groups) "because they want to enjoy the ride". There is no shame in wanting to enjoy the ride, I think we all do. But, It has been clearly stated by BRP and dealer service departments that it is recommended to shift at 5,000-5,500 RPM in order for the charcoal canister and evap system to work properly. If you are putting around (as many have stated they like to do) then your going to have issues with the system no matter what is done to solve the heat issue. So people can point the finger at BRP (and they certainly have some blame in this), but if your putting around on your Spyder it's time to start pointing the finger at yourself as well....

Are you saying spyders cannot be ridden slow. That makes no sense to me. Jmho