What are the odds? BRP Focus Group at Owner's Event.

[ARCTIC]

They need to make every model "handbrake ready" and let the aftermarket easily install a handbrake

 

[jthornton]

I commend BRP for the focus group and your participation. Re the Goldwing, the Spyder has only 10 horsepower less than the GW1800 , but has a faster 0 to 60 time , 4.5 sec vs 4.7 sec for the GW1800 (two wheel). The Spyder 0 to 60 time is faster than almost all those heavy cruisers with the big engines, because of the Spyder higher rpm.

I own both a 2012 RT and a 2009 GL1800. The GL1800 has so much torque it can accelerate from 20 MPH with two up in 5th gear without any hesitation on flat roads. My GL1800 can beat my RT in a drag race no problem. The GL1800 and RT weigh about the same, IIRC the RT is 50-75 lbs heavier. I really find it hard to believe the GL1800 has only 10 more HP than the RT. The GL1800 will go from 0 to 130 MPH faster than you can write the check for your bail. The RT starts to run out of steam at 90 MPH. The GL1800 gets 40-45 MPG while the RT gets 25-30 MPG (and I know some people claim more on both).

Spyder People are more fun to be around! GL1800 People seem to be a bit more reserved.

Don't get me wrong, I'm just trying to present a even comparison on the two bikes from someone that owns both and rides both. I love both bikes!

JT

 

[bruiser]

Nice post JT. On our 2010 RTS, I took it out on one of the long straight (2.7 miles) back roads in our area to test it's speed. Got it to 110 MPH and still had throttle left before running out of road. Have had the occasion to pass some slow vehicles on my 2012 RTS. Straight out of fifth gear, no downshift, twist the throttle and hit 85-90 in no time.

I like what you said about Spyder owners vs wing owners. Know some folks who own wings (GL 1800s) and some who own wing trikes. You're correct in that assessment. Oh, and I agree on the comment about the GL 1800 having only 10 HP more than the Spyder, :hun:.

 

[jthornton]

Nice post JT. On our 2010 RTS, I took it out on one of the long straight (2.7 miles) back roads in our area to test it's speed. Got it to 110 MPH and still had throttle left before running out of road. Have had the occasion to pass some slow vehicles on my 2012 RTS. Straight out of fifth gear, no downshift, twist the throttle and hit 85-90 in no time.

I like what you said about Spyder owners vs wing owners. Know some folks who own wings (GL 1800s) and some who own wing trikes. You're correct in that assessment. Oh, and I agree on the comment about the GL 1800 having only 10 HP more than the Spyder, :hun:.

So I have to be Jekyll and Hyde when I swap back and forth :roflblack:

Yea, the GL1800 is only a few cc's less than double the size of the Rotax... and 6 cylinders to boot.

I must admit I've not taken the RT above 95 but it seemed to be loosing umph at 90 or so. And I even have the 23" windshield on mine...

I love your profile photo of the cat.

JT

 

[Netminder]

:thumbup::thumbup: Nice job! Covered a lot of concerns and suggestions!

 

[KatLen0405]

not much of a Focus

My Hubby and I were also asked to participate in the 4:00pm focus group. We showed up at the assigned time, at the tent we were told to be at, but no one from BRP was there. We waited until they made the announcement to seek shelter because of the tornado warning, but were very disappointed that BRP didn't show. Additionally, I had been in contact directly with a BRP PR rep and had been asked to have a one on one session with them on Thursday between 1-3 pm. That appointment was also not followed through on by BRP. VERY DISAPPOINTING!! I didn't do any of the scheduled rides on Thursday so that I could keep that appointment. I was told there was going to be a women's only focus group on Friday morning at 9am but declined that so that I could at least get out on one ride while there.

 

[DR Buck]

Well since you brought it up......................

The wife and I sat with 3 ladies working for BRP at the dinner. They were with an independent market research group BRP hired to interview Spyder owners at the event. We had almost an hour discussion with them and covered everything from Spyder colors, complaints, design improvements, handling and dealer satisfaction. What we didn't bring up, they did in their questions to us. They were all familiar with Spyderlovers and had spent time lurking here prior to the owners event.

I made a point to mention the recurring dealer issues many have raised here on the forum as well as some of the other more common issues posted. Since it is ocassionally raised as an issue by others I did bring up my annoying front end shaking, probably related to tires. I made sure they understood that I had stopped at a tire dealer in the Maggie Valley area the day before to have them spin balanced again and the shaking still occured even after balancing. I also pointed out some minor nits that just don't make sense to me. One example I gave was the fact that BRP goes to all the trouble to include in the wire harness the wires and connectors for the Frunk power connector, but does not install it. What probably would cost an additional few $$ in manufacturing takes a monumental effort in tupperware removal and reinstallation for the owner to add.

Bottom line is I like my Spyder and personally have had nothing major to complain about (other than the front end shaking) and BRP is wanting to know owner oppinions to make the product better.

 

[Bob Denman]

I've noticed something... :shocked:
Everybody tries to compare the Spyder to the GoldWing...
WHY? :dontknow:
You'd think that Honda was holding a focus group in an attempt to turn that great horizon-chaser into an oem Trike of some sort!

In reality; they share very little in design or concept similarities.
Spyder are as unique as the 'Wings are mainstream...

 

[daveinva]

I've noticed something... :shocked:
Everybody tries to compare the Spyder to the GoldWing...
WHY? :dontknow:
You'd think that Honda was holding a focus group in an attempt to turn that great horizon-chaser into an oem Trike of some sort!

In reality; they share very little in design or concept similarities.
Spyder are as unique as the 'Wings are mainstream...

Well Bob, your answer is right there! The Goldwing is the "gold standard" (pun intended) of the "retire and see the country" bikes. The RT sure seems to many to be in direct competition with the likes of the Goldwing, especially the GW trikes. It's a fair comparison in the same way every luxury auto manufacturer benchmarks against BMW when building their own sports sedans.

 

[Bob Denman]

Thanks! I just needed somebody to say that! :thumbup: nojoke

 

[daveinva]

They need to make every model "handbrake ready" and let the aftermarket easily install a handbrake

Oh, darn it, I forgot! :banghead: The GF mentioned her scooter experience, and how when demo'ing the ST she found herself reaching for the (non-existent) handbrake. Tom asked if that was an issue for her; she said no, that eventually she got the hang of the footbrake, and felt in time she'd get used to having only that brake. Tom thought that was a good thing because he mentioned that adding a handbrake "wasn't something BRP was interested in with the Spyder design."

So, yeah, looks like the only handbrake solution is going to remain an aftermarket deal for the foreseeable future.

Personally, I don't mind not having one 98% of the time, but I admit that a handbrake would come in handy when I'm too far leaned over in a twisty corner to easily dab the footbrake.

 

[daveinva]

My Hubby and I were also asked to participate in the 4:00pm focus group. We showed up at the assigned time, at the tent we were told to be at, but no one from BRP was there. We waited until they made the announcement to seek shelter because of the tornado warning, but were very disappointed that BRP didn't show. Additionally, I had been in contact directly with a BRP PR rep and had been asked to have a one on one session with them on Thursday between 1-3 pm. That appointment was also not followed through on by BRP. VERY DISAPPOINTING!! I didn't do any of the scheduled rides on Thursday so that I could keep that appointment. I was told there was going to be a women's only focus group on Friday morning at 9am but declined that so that I could at least get out on one ride while there.

Yeah, I think the storm threw them for a loop. From the moment Thursday morning when I was asked to participate I planned my riding that day around getting back in time for my 3:00 pm appointment to talk the RS (the GF kept ribbing me, the moment I was asked she KNEW I was eager to share my opinion-- "Oh God, OF COURSE they had to ask you for your opinion, you're *always* ready to share it!"

Since I was the only one who made it, my guess is most of the other folks were still out in the group rides, something we dodged as the GF and I rode our own pace that morning. By the time 4 pm rolled around, I think the storm had them giving up on the deal.

So sorry you didn't get to talk...

 

[Bob Ledford]

BRP J D Power Service Department Survey at the Dealer Level

Your GF should have used "the Lincoln Grand Marquis" as her example of OF's

BRP obviously has heard the dealer complaint as I received a J D Power survey card in the mail on Monday and responded immediately to it. It is one of those numerical ranking surveys with a 400 character no holds bared get it off your chest opinion boxes at the end. They are very up front on the fact that the survey deals with Dealer Service from the greeting through pickup and riding home

 

[Grandpa Spyder]

I talked to a rep also.

I also had a chat with one of the reps, Mr. Riley I gave him some praises on the fact that they are listening to us by improving the oil change procedure. I also told him that I thought they hit a home run with the new ST. and that the floorboards were a great addition.
Then I got on him about the fact that they don't tell people in their manuals how to properly drive the spyder. I told him every manufacturer has suggest speed for changing gears except BRP. I told him that people like bought the Spyder and was told they had to shift above 3000 rpms, so I thought that was where I was supposed to shift. I called it the Goldwing attitude. I also told him that there are a lot of people still out there with that Goldwing attitude and sooner or later they are going to have some serious problems. He said that they are considering putting a shift light on the rpm indicator.
We talked about some other things to, but being old I can't remember what. LOL
And yes Bob if Honda would build a Goldwing trike like the Spyder I would be the 1st in line to buy one.

 

[Jeriatric]

I also had a chat with one of the reps, Mr. Riley I gave him some praises on the fact that they are listening to us by improving the oil change procedure. I also told him that I thought they hit a home run with the new ST. and that the floorboards were a great addition.
Then I got on him about the fact that they don't tell people in their manuals how to properly drive the spyder. I told him every manufacturer has suggest speed for changing gears except BRP. I told him that people like bought the Spyder and was told they had to shift above 3000 rpms, so I thought that was where I was supposed to shift. I called it the Goldwing attitude. I also told him that there are a lot of people still out there with that Goldwing attitude and sooner or later they are going to have some serious problems. He said that they are considering putting a shift light on the rpm indicator.
We talked about some other things to, but being old I can't remember what. LOL
And yes Bob if Honda would build a Goldwing trike like the Spyder I would be the 1st in line to buy one.

Almost got laughed out of here with that idea.

 

[Bob Denman]

A lot of us might take a peek over the fence if a "Tri-Wing" was announced...
But I do still like this design! :thumbup:

 

[ARCTIC]

Oh, darn it, I forgot! :banghead: The GF mentioned her scooter experience, and how when demo'ing the ST she found herself reaching for the (non-existent) handbrake. Tom asked if that was an issue for her; she said no, that eventually she got the hang of the footbrake, and felt in time she'd get used to having only that brake. Tom thought that was a good thing because he mentioned that adding a handbrake "wasn't something BRP was interested in with the Spyder design."

So, yeah, looks like the only handbrake solution is going to remain an aftermarket deal for the foreseeable future.

Personally, I don't mind not having one 98% of the time, but I admit that a handbrake would come in handy when I'm too far leaned over in a twisty corner to easily dab the footbrake.

There is a group of owners that cannot ride one of these without the handbrake and I bet BRP thinks it's covered by the isci kit. That kit is well engineered and does the best it can with what they have to work with. BUT..... it's a far cry from being perfect. The effort required to pull the lever is bad and you cannot get 100% braking force with that system. No fault of isci as I think they have the best that they can produce with what they have to work with for attachment to the spyder

 

[Bob Denman]

ISCI has a redesigned brake lever that significantly reduces the effort necessary... :thumbup:

 

[MikeT]

I offered my feedback/frustration on the dealer network: it needs improvement. Tom nodded, mentioning that improving the dealer experience is a major focus for BRP right now. He noted that when it came to BRP-only dealers, many of them still come from the "seasonal" approach to customer service. The dealers are the "face" of BRP to the owner, so helping them out however BRP can is in their best interest for the long-term success of the Spyder.
I mentioned the leg heat problems, and how I had addressed mine aftermarket (through Spyderpops). Tom noted that BRP has long heard the heat concerns and continues to search for ways to solve it. I acknowledged that I was aware that a bike isn't a car, that some heat was to be expected, but the Spyder definitely had a unique problem with leg heat.

I just wonder how many Spyder sales have been lost:
1.because of the small dealer network and inconsistent performance of some of them, and
2.the inability of BRP to solve the "unique problem(s)" that are the result of a design "flaw" in a timely manner.
I just wonder if BRP tracks point #1, or even cares about it? This is the main reason why I'm not making the leap, right now.
There are multiple H-D & Honda local dealers. There's even a solitary Ducati dealer that is surviving. Why no local Can-Am dealer?????? Do they not like the "competition"? At least in my area, the Dealers are in the "small" towns. The closest on is 35 miles away(won't deal on price and has high labor rates). Next on the list is 70 miles away. Followed by 2 who are at least 120 miles away (one of these has a great reputation for sales and service).
I have ridded both H-Ds and GWs since taking up riding again in '96. I've been riding a GL1800 based trike since '06(wife's wish). I'm approaching the Medicare age, and have developped OA in both of my thumbs(L>R), and I'm a southpaw. I'd really like to give a RT-S SE5 a go; but it's not real practical at the current state of the BRP dealer network. I've seen a few nice FSBO '12s & 13s here; but am reluctant to pll the trigger.
Next month the wife and I will be making our annual treck to MI. We'll go right by one of the Can-Am dealers. May stop in and get a demo ride with her on board. Her feedback is very important. As far as one design being inherantly safe than the other, i can't speak to that. What i do know is the biggest safety factor is the person holding the handlebars, regardless if it's a M/cCor any trike configuration. Design can't overcome stupidity.

 

[Bob Denman]

Well; Happy Hunting! :2thumbs: