32000.00 will get you nothing! Still no bike! UPDATED MAR 24

[NancysToy]

At this point, assuming they have done everything right, I would say they need to start looking for the anomaly. That is they need to start looking at an addition cause. Bad weld on an a-arm, bad a-arm bushing, bad shock bushing, improper caster or camber, bad shock, etc. BRP needs to get involved deeper than they have. Perhaps a road trip is in order for the boys from Wausau. JMHO

 

[mjw930]

At this point, assuming they have done everything right, I would say they need to start looking for the anomaly. That is they need to start looking at an addition cause. Bad weld on an a-arm, bad a-arm bushing, bad shock bushing, improper caster or camber, bad shock, etc. BRP needs to get involved deeper than they have. Perhaps a road trip is in order for the boys from Wausau. JMHO

Agreed, it would seem basic troubleshooting is beyond this dealer's capabilities. Simply setting the toe to various degrees of toe in and testing it would yield the type of diagnostic information needed to start ruling out things. Maybe they've done that but aren't communicating effectively.

If it were me I would fully load the RT, including me or someone my size sitting on the bike while it was on the alignment rack and measure the settings. That alone would give insight they seem to be lacking.

Setting critical alignment isn't rocket science but I guess we need to remember these are typically motorcycle mechanics, not automotive mechanics and even within the auto mechanic world it's difficult to find one who truly understands cause and effect with alignment.

Here's a simple procedure they could do that would eliminate alignment as a cause. Load the bike to max capacity (400 lbs or so) and set the toe in to 1/8" more negative than factory spec. Take it for a ride and see how it handles. Reset toe to factory spec fully loaded and try again. The results of this simple test would give them all the info they need to target their "fix"

 

[rcturner]

Does anybody see a fundamental issue here ? If the alignment is going to be that sensitive to load, it is never going to be correct. The load on the front of these bikes is going to vary a lot from ride to ride and dependent on what you carry for passengers and misc equipment. I realize that toe in will vary some but, if it is properly designed, it should be minimal within the load limits of the bike. This sounds like a design problem that will never be completely solved.

 

[Bob Denman]

:shocked: I see your point... But once you set it initially to the proper specs; the additional weight that goes in the frunk is pretty minimal... I think! :shocked:

 

[Lamonster]

At this point, assuming they have done everything right, I would say they need to start looking for the anomaly. That is they need to start looking at an addition cause. Bad weld on an a-arm, bad a-arm bushing, bad shock bushing, improper caster or camber, bad shock, etc. BRP needs to get involved deeper than they have. Perhaps a road trip is in order for the boys from Wausau. JMHO

If I was the dealer I would put him on another unit and if it wasn't an issue I would send him on his way and figure out what's going on with this one.

 

[Bob Denman]

He's a big guy; the alignment procedure may have to take that into account... :dontknow:

 

[mjw930]

Does anybody see a fundamental issue here ? If the alignment is going to be that sensitive to load, it is never going to be correct. The load on the front of these bikes is going to vary a lot from ride to ride and dependent on what you carry for passengers and misc equipment. I realize that toe in will vary some but, if it is properly designed, it should be minimal within the load limits of the bike. This sounds like a design problem that will never be completely solved.

No, it's not a design problem, it's simply one of getting the unit properly setup from the start. I have no idea why this one has been so difficult but I suspect it's partially due to untrained hands making changes that have spiraled in the wrong direction. I don't see it as any more sensitive than the bike has been since it's introduction, it's just that the newly designed suspension has changed the game and like everything else there's a learning curve. The older design had the same issues with toe under load but the typical solution was to crank up or replace the shocks where the new one doesn't have that capability. Not having that capability isn't a bad thing as long as the entire suspension is dialed in correctly.

It simply amazes me that something as simple as setting the toe at the proper setting under load has caused so much issue. Nothing I've read here or experienced in the 4 years of owning the previous design give me any pause.

Lamont made an interesting observation, have you had the opportunity to ride a different unit for comparison?

 

[bhfromme]

Step 2 in this scenario should have been a quick and accurate diagnosis and repair. It sounds like this is not what happened and this is where it gets sad.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Your Spyder experience will be only as good as the knowledge and attitude of your dealer.

 

[NancysToy]

If I was the dealer I would put him on another unit and if it wasn't an issue I would send him on his way and figure out what's going on with this one.

:agree: but most dealers are not willing to go that route. I aslo agree that he should demo another for comparison, although if the tech says this one isn't right, it certainly isn't.

 

[spydaman60]

If I was the dealer I would put him on another unit and if it wasn't an issue I would send him on his way and figure out what's going on with this one.

lamont, bettin rab wished you owned brp right about now!!!nojoke

 

[flaggerphil]

Changing dealers can make a huge difference. I fired the dealer that's only 20 minutes from me because of problems and went to a dealer that's 75 minutes away. All my problems were solved. My new dealer was also able to get 2013 problems solved with a minimum of fuss and bother. That says a lot to me...

 

[Huntindawg1962]

He's a big guy; the alignment procedure may have to take that into account... :dontknow:

Me and the OP are about the same size guys - and neither my 2011 or 2012 RT has an issue with me alone or me and a rider = sounds like this machine or this dealership (or combination thereof).

 

[spydee owner]

I would like to see Lamont put a rule in place for this site that bans participants from airing their threats. I kind of thought this forum was to mention problems and get help with issues, and to socialize with other riders.

However, threats of lawsuits and publicly advertising disatisfaction should not be posed here in my opinion.
There used to be a saying about not airing dirty laundry in public. It seems that this does not apply to the internet.
It's one thing to come on a site and get some assistance for an issue, and even show some frustration, but when a poster tries to poison the views of many other participants of the sight it is just ....... well wrong!

 

[Jeriatric]

Yes!! We should live in a vanilla world.

 

[Bob Denman]

Me and the OP are about the same size guys - and neither my 2011 or 2012 RT has an issue with me alone or me and a rider = sounds like this machine or this dealership (or combination thereof).

That's the change in the suspension that has been mentioned in here...

I would like to see Lamont put a rule in place for this site that bans participants from airing their threats. I kind of thought this forum was to mention problems and get help with issues, and to socialize with other riders.
However, threats of lawsuits and publicly advertising disatisfaction should not be posed here in my opinion.
There used to be a saying about not airing dirty laundry in public.
It's one thing to come on a site and get some assistance for an issue, and even show some frustration, but when a poster tries to poison the views of many other participants of the sight it is just ....... well wrong! Today, 12:55 PM
Huntindawg1962

I'm sorry; but I have to disagree with you on this one... to a point! :shocked: Customers haven't never been 100% happy; somebody will always find something to gripe about.
some of it's vaild, and some isn't... another fact of life.
In an open forum; I suppose that the members who feel that a line has been crossed , should feel just as free to say that, as the member who thinks that he's made a huge purchasing mistake....
Just keep it all within reason so as not to bruise egos or fan the flames.
Tact and Diplomacy folks! :thumbup:

 

[bscrive]

Can someone please tell me why they have such a complicated alignment procedure. Why can they not do a 2 wheel alignment like they used to do on rear wheel drive cars? Does the single back wheel really make that much of a difference? My cousin is a front end mechanic and he has wondered this as well. We are going to remove the frunk and put my wife's Spyder on his alignment machine when we can get out on it (still a lot of snow and cold here) to see what the specs are with the current setup. I would think that an electronic alignment would be far superior to the method they use. correct me if I am in outer space on this.

 

[Bob Denman]

The new suspension is just a bit... different!
It'll take the dealers a little while to figure out that they're, "Not in Kansas anymore." :shocked: But they'll get the hnag of it! :thumbup:

 

[murphybrown]

If it was your health!!

I have. And my next question is.... How do I get my bike sent to another dealer with all that has happened. Do I tell BRP that I want to pick it up and carry it to another dealer.. Or am i completely in it till the end with Big Number 1.

Would you not seek a second opinion if your doc was recommending a lobotomy procedure for an ankle problem???? I would hope so. This is still the land of the free and the brave...your Spyder...they cannot hold it "hostage". So you are free to make the choice to be "brave" and seek the second opinion. Do what works for you and your situation? :thumbup:

 

[Jeriatric]

Would you not seek a second opinion if your doc was recommending a lobotomy procedure for an ankle problem???? I would hope so. This is still the land of the free and the brave...your Spyder...they cannot hold it "hostage". So you are free to make the choice to be "brave" and seek the second opinion. Do what works for you and your situation? :thumbup:

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: You go girl!! :firstplace: nojoke

 

[spydee owner]

Yes!! We should live in a vanilla world.

You can live in a vanilla world. My point was that people do not need to air lawsuit threats and the threat of negative publicity ads because they are not happy about something they purchased.
Use the site to give/get assistance from others and to be sociable to others, not to be going off half cocked in a rant.

As has been seen on this forum before, these rants usually have very poor results in getting the manufacturer,dealer, and purchaser of the product to a common place where everyone involved has a satisfactory outcome, regarding the purchase.