Battery age

[bluestratos]

Check my earlier post but yes, the large one drops right in and they give some shims as part of the package since they are a bit smaller. They are up to 70% lighter than lead acid (the big boy wieghts under 5 lbs.). You pay big for this technology but it is worth it.

 

[MikeinGA]

Yes!

Spyder batteries come in two forms...dry charged and factory charged. The Spyders were originally shipped with dry charged batteries, but problems with the dealers failing to allow time after filling for the glass mats to absorb the acid, and failures to charge them sufficiently before laying them on their sides and installing them, led to numerous premature failures. It is my understanding that they now come factory prepared in the Spyder, but replacement batteries may still be dry charged. The dry-charged version should have a longer shelf life. If you want the best battery available, I would consider a lithium-iron battery. They are lightweight, durable, and don't lose a charge sitting idle (except for parasitic losses).

What's the price of a lithium-iron battery compared to glass mat that the Spyder come with?

Mike

 

[Mr. White]

This is only my opinion. I have been doing batteries since 1946, in my old Dodge pickup, several times removed. I also was in the auto parts business for a couple of years. When I get a battery, I charge it with a Battery Tender (or simular) for 24 hours before installing it. Batteries from "anywhere" seldom come with more than a 80% charge...and you need to bring them up to 100%...they will perform better and last longer. I also keep a charger on my Spyder, Wing, tractor, riding mower and motorhome 24/7. Just my humble opinion....but it works.

:spyder2:

 

[NancysToy]

What's the price of a lithium-iron battery compared to glass mat that the Spyder come with?

Mike

It's more. The life should be longer, though.

 

[WackyDan]

What about the new high tech LiPo batteries? Anyone try 'em or know if they have adverse effects on the Spyder's computers?

Those aren't made for traditional vehicle batteries to the best of my knowledge. They use them for some of the electric hybrids, but they are massive. Just not economical to use for traditional use, plus they don't handle rapid discharge/high draw well. They also have finite amount of charge cycles and they chemically degrade over time. I have some pretty extensive experience with that battery tech and trust me, you are better off with traditional lead acid batteries.

 

[Bob Denman]

This whole question of batteries has put me in an investigatvie frame of mind...
So far; here's some VERY simple and rough comparisons of three batteries

The OEM Yuasa YTX24HL
CCA 350
21 amp hours

MotoBlatt's MBTX 24U
CCA 285
25 amp hours

Shorai's LFX36A3-BS12
CCA 540
36 amp hours

There's got to be somebody in here who can tell me what some of this means; or what it is that I've missed.

 

[asp125]

CCA = cold cranking amps. The amount of current it can provide at 0*F
Amp Hours= the time a battery can deliver it's rated voltage (in the absence of charging)

From a weight & performance point of view, the Shorai outperforms regular acid / glass mat batteries. But what's missing is how long of a service life they have. If I'm shelling out twice the price I want them to last ~twice as long.

 

[Bob Denman]

I wonder if anybody's had enough long-term experience with them in this application yet?? :dontknow:

 

[asp125]

I wonder if anybody's had enough long-term experience with them in this application yet?? :dontknow:

I have friends who use Shorai in their race bikes, due to the weight savings and better charge characteristics. But compared to the Spyder the electrical requirement is pretty simple without all that computer VSS DPS whatnot parasitic draw.

 

[bertmc]

A rose is a rose is a rose, but is lithium ion same as lithium iron same as LiPo?

Scotty says: "If you want the best battery available, I would consider a lithium-iron battery."

WackyDan says, re the LiPo battery: "you are better off with traditional lead acid batteries."

Are we comparing apples to apples here? Apparently there is more than one lithium compound used to furnish the lithium ions in these batteries. Perhaps the LiPo is a lithium phosphorus compound rather than lithium iron. Of course, the "irony" of my comments is that I don't know what I'm talking about.

Would someone who knows clarify this for us so we don't buy the wrong one?

 

[WackyDan]

Scotty says: "If you want the best battery available, I would consider a lithium-iron battery."

WackyDan says, re the LiPo battery: "you are better off with traditional lead acid batteries."

Are we comparing apples to apples here? Apparently there is more than one lithium compound used to furnish the lithium ions in these batteries. Perhaps the LiPo is a lithium phosphorus compound rather than lithium iron. Of course, the "irony" of my comments is that I don't know what I'm talking about.

Would someone who knows clarify this for us so we don't buy the wrong one?

My experience comes from the computer industry and working at one time as a systems engineer for a major manufacturer. Lithium Ion batteries have finite charge cycles, which wouldn't make them a good replacement for a lead acid battery designed to start and have constantly different states of charge. They also chemically degrade just sitting on a shelf charged or uncharged and can hate the cold or heat far more than a lead acid battery. They may save weight for specific applications, but it would be my last choice in battery to put in my spyder due to cost, and the fact that I want my spyder battery to be reliable and last more than a year or two. Some of the newer Lithium Ion tech improves on a number of things that have plagued that tech in the past. They are starting to use IC's on every cell to limit charge state to less than 100% of the individual cell's capacity. Before they would charge the battery as one unit and some cells would have their charge exceed 100% in order to charge the whole battery - generating heat and reducing capacity. You can buy batteries that come with extra capacity but are limited to far less than 100% charge... A nice trick to give you a longer battery warranty. They will show as charged 100% however... Nothing fishy, just a way to make them hold capacity longer. They also hate being totally discharged... If you look into the lithium ion batteries used in electric cars, you'll find they do not allow full discharge, and you'd find that they are not actually charging the batteries to 100% even if the battery gauge reads so. You'd also find that charging on 110volt is slower but the battery packs will last longer versus always using 220volt chargers. You'll also find that many of these electrics don't even use lithium ion simply due to cost.

I do not think the technology is well suited for a traditional car battery used to start as well run accessories and be subject to the daily charge cycles a vehicle would see. Just my opinion. In a few years that may change.

 

[asp125]

Here is a good review and comparison from Webbikeworld.

http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcy...ai-vs-ballistic-li-ion-motorcycle-battery.htm

 

[WackyDan]

Here is a good review and comparison from Webbikeworld.

http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcy...ai-vs-ballistic-li-ion-motorcycle-battery.htm

Good find. It is Lithium Ion but a different composition so some of my cautions are not valid. I still don't think they are worth the coin.

 

[Bob Denman]

So who in here needs a battery bad enough right now and is willing to be the "Test Pilot"?? :shocked:

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

BEST BATTERY

My experience comes from the computer industry and working at one time as a systems engineer for a major manufacturer. Lithium Ion batteries have finite charge cycles, which wouldn't make them a good replacement for a lead acid battery designed to start and have constantly different states of charge. They also chemically degrade just sitting on a shelf charged or uncharged and can hate the cold or heat far more than a lead acid battery. They may save weight for specific applications, but it would be my last choice in battery to put in my spyder due to cost, and the fact that I want my spyder battery to be reliable and last more than a year or two. Some of the newer Lithium Ion tech improves on a number of things that have plagued that tech in the past. They are starting to use IC's on every cell to limit charge state to less than 100% of the individual cell's capacity. Before they would charge the battery as one unit and some cells would have their charge exceed 100% in order to charge the whole battery - generating heat and reducing capacity. You can buy batteries that come with extra capacity but are limited to far less than 100% charge... A nice trick to give you a longer battery warranty. They will show as charged 100% however... Nothing fishy, just a way to make them hold capacity longer. They also hate being totally discharged... If you look into the lithium ion batteries used in electric cars, you'll find they do not allow full discharge, and you'd find that they are not actually charging the batteries to 100% even if the battery gauge reads so. You'd also find that charging on 110volt is slower but the battery packs will last longer versus always using 220volt chargers. You'll also find that many of these electrics don't even use lithium ion simply due to cost.

I do not think the technology is well suited for a traditional car battery used to start as well run accessories and be subject to the daily charge cycles a vehicle would see. Just my opinion. In a few years that may change.

I could not have said it better...so you can get an exact fit, lower cost Motobatt #MBTX 24U...and it does have 350 cca 25 a/h Mike :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:.

 

[Bob Denman]

Mike,
We may be debating how many Angels can dance on the head of a pin; but doesn't MotoBlatt list the CCA of their battery at 285?

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

IT DEPENDS

Mike,
We may be debating how many Angels can dance on the head of a pin; but doesn't MotoBlatt list the CCA of their battery at 285?

Bob, it depends.....I've seen both , but mostly 350 cca......and the cca is not as important strength wise as the Amp/Hour rating....some people will debate this but I don't care......CCA is important if you live in the ARTIC CIRCLE.

 

[Bob Denman]

Thanks for the info.:thumbup:
I see that CCA is measured at zero degrees; I figured that it would be a good extreme test of a battery.
"Batt-speak" is one language that I'm not fluent in. pps:

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

ZERO DEGREE'S

Thanks for the info.:thumbup:
I see that CCA is measured at zero degrees; I figured that it would be a good extreme test of a battery.
"Batt-speak" is one language that I'm not fluent in. pps:

And you start your Spyder at " 0 " how often ?????????????....:roflblack: :roflblack: :roflblack: :roflblack: :yikes: ...Mike..:thumbup:

 

[Bob Denman]

Now there is a reason for this type of thinking...
You set yourself up for absolutely the worst conditions that you might EVER have to endure; that way everything else is just like beer 'n skittles! :thumbup:
That theory always worked great when practicing for pistol matches...
We'd go to the range in January; single digit temperatures with the snow and wind just howling and the guns were trying to freeze up and the sights would fog up... :shocked:
It kind of made 70 degrees and calm clear days seem so very easy in comparison! :firstplace: