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ar-15

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Wonder how many were criminals killing criminals with guns they should not have legally possessed ? Or just the number of guns used that were not legally obtained. Even good statistics can be used multiple ways.
 
Machinegunner said:
Most killings are done by deranged people. I never heard of one rifle or pistol that fired by it self. It's NOT THE GUN.
Click to expand...

Oh sure you have. They get dropped. Trigger catches on clothing. Dog knocks over shotgun. Hunter props rifle against fence. Hunter climbs fence. Fence breaks. Hunter falls off fence. Gun falls on ground and shoots hunter in butt. How about son who comes in late and is shot by non-deranged father? That happened in my neighborhood two years ago. Upscale neighborhood. Not much crime. Father was not "deranged". Wonder how he is feeling now?

We have got to keep firearms of all kinds out of the hands of people who should not have them. Not only 'deranged' people but youngsters, old farts who cannot see what they are shooting at and, of course, criminals.

IT ABSOLUTELY IS THE GUN!

We need a total ban on semi-automatic weapons and the devices that make them so effective at killing people. We need mandatory safety training, licensing and usage/storage requirements just as we do for vehicles. And we need mandatory and effective background checks to prevent 'deranged' persons from having guns of any type.

I personally would like to see a mandatory 20 years imprisonment added to any crime committed with a gun.

None of the above would negatively impact your personal enjoyment of target shooting or hunting so the only thing I can say if you continue to disagree with this direction is that you value your guns more than your children.
 
Saluda said:
Wonder how many were criminals killing criminals with guns they should not have legally possessed ? Or just the number of guns used that were not legally obtained. Even good statistics can be used multiple ways.
Click to expand...
I don't see any such statistics, probably because 'criminal' is a fairly subjective term.

However, homicide (the one crime we most fear and is used to justify Americans arming themselves to the teeth) is negligible;

https://www.statista.com/statistics/202703/crime-rate-in-the-usa-by-type-of-crime/
 
We've had semi-automatic weapons in this country since the early 1900s. We didn't start seeing these mass shootings until the 80s or 90s. What happened to our society? Nobody I ever knew in school in the 50s and 60s ever even thought about shooting anyone. And we all had guns.
 
Machinegunner said:
We've had semi-automatic weapons in this country since the early 1900s. We didn't start seeing these mass shootings until the 80s or 90s. What happened to our society? Nobody I ever knew in school in the 50s and 60s ever even thought about shooting anyone. And we all had guns.
Click to expand...

we also had cocaine in the early 1900's, why don't we have it anymore legally?
 
UtahPete said:
I didn't know the history of the evolution of what I knew of as the M-16 in Vietnam. Interesting choice by the military, considering the enemy was using the far more lethal and reliable AK-47 at the time.
Click to expand...

I guess you could call them both "spray & pray" weapons. I guess the AK was "designed like a tractor" according to Kalashnikov! I came in to my military career later on in life and I was not trying to be disrespectful and by the way, THANK YOU for your service. Mac:doorag:
 
Mad Mac said:
I guess you could call them both "spray & pray" weapons. I guess the AK was "designed like a tractor" according to Kalashnikov! I came in to my military career later on in life and I was not trying to be disrespectful and by the way, THANK YOU for your service. Mac:doorag:
Click to expand...

I didn't consider your post to be disrespectful in any way. I found it insightful. My editorial comment probably led you to think otherwise. Sorry.
 
UtahPete said:
I didn't know the history of the evolution of what I knew of as the M-16 in Vietnam. Interesting choice by the military, considering the enemy was using the far more lethal and reliable AK-47 at the time.
Click to expand...

Lethality wasn't the issue...
It took more men to remove and treat a wounded soldier; than it did to transport a body.
The older M14 (Which is a VERY desirable rifle!), used ammo that was tougher to carry in bulk. You could pack along a whole lot more ammo for the M16. :thumbup:

I've owned AR-15s.... I personally don't see the thrill in them. :dontknow:
But I also know that you cannot differentiate between an AR, and ANY other semi-automatic rifle that might be more useful in the hunting field or target range.
And THAT is the problem: It would be too easy to "move the goalposts", and start outlawing a whole bunch of other rifles. nojoke
 
UtahPete said:
I didn't consider your post to be disrespectful in any way. I found it insightful. My editorial comment probably led you to think otherwise. Sorry.
Click to expand...

With what you posted and quoted, I thought maybe I missed something with my "old eyes" because I d/n see the M-16 mentioned in that informative article. When I went to my basic training in '77, we had to qualify w/M-16A1's and I don't think their was a "civilian version" at that time in history.(young & dumb??) I should do a little bit more research before I post! Mac:bowdown:
 
Bob Denman said:
Lethality wasn't the issue...
It took more men to remove and treat a wounded soldier; than it did to transport a body.
The older M14 (Which is a VERY desirable rifle!), used ammo that was tougher to carry in bulk. You could pack along a whole lot more ammo for the M16. :thumbup:

I've owned AR-15s.... I personally don't see the thrill in them. :dontknow:
But I also know that you cannot differentiate between an AR, and ANY other semi-automatic rifle that might be more useful in the hunting field or target range.
And THAT is the problem: It would be too easy to "move the goalposts", and start outlawing a whole bunch of other rifles. nojoke
Click to expand...

Can I say "slippery slope" anyone?? Mac:doorag:
 
RinconRyder said:
I personally would like to see a mandatory 20 years imprisonment added to any crime committed with a gun.
Click to expand...

In this day and age that would be an extra 6 months. Won't comment on the rest, you'll never see it happen thankfully.
 
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RinconRyder said:
Oh sure you have. They get dropped. Trigger catches on clothing. Dog knocks over shotgun. Hunter props rifle against fence. Hunter climbs fence. Fence breaks. Hunter falls off fence. Gun falls on ground and shoots hunter in butt. How about son who comes in late and is shot by non-deranged father? That happened in my neighborhood two years ago. Upscale neighborhood. Not much crime. Father was not "deranged". Wonder how he is feeling now?

We have got to keep firearms of all kinds out of the hands of people who should not have them. Not only 'deranged' people but youngsters, old farts who cannot see what they are shooting at and, of course, criminals.

IT ABSOLUTELY IS THE GUN!

We need a total ban on semi-automatic weapons and the devices that make them so effective at killing people. We need mandatory safety training, licensing and usage/storage requirements just as we do for vehicles. And we need mandatory and effective background checks to prevent 'deranged' persons from having guns of any type. Then you'll be wanting my side by side double trigger shotguns 'cause I can fire 2 shots as fast as any semi-auto.

I personally would like to see a mandatory 20 years imprisonment added to any crime committed with a gun.

None of the above would negatively impact your personal enjoyment of target shooting or hunting so the only thing I can say if you continue to disagree with this direction is that you value your guns more than your children.
Click to expand...

Even my semi-auto .22LR cal target rifles?? Surely you jest! How about my semi-auto 12 gauge shotgun?
 
Guns

Machinegunner said:
Most killings are done by deranged people. I never heard of one rifle or pistol that fired by it self. It's NOT THE GUN.
Click to expand...
​



RinconRyder said:
Oh sure you have. They get dropped. Person dropped it, so it was the person's fault not the gun. Trigger catches on clothing. Person not being careful. Sure it was an accident, but not because it went off by itself, so it was the person's fault. Dog knocks over shotgun. Gun left loaded, and cocked, so gun did not just go off. Again person's fault. Hunter props rifle against fence. Hunter climbs fence. Fence breaks. Hunter falls off fence. Gun falls on ground and shoots hunter in butt. Hunter did not have control of gun like he should, did not have safety on, Hunter caused gun to fall on ground, hunter is cause for gun to go off. How about son who comes in late and is shot by non-deranged father. Every gun safety class I took said if you are going to pull the trigger then know what you are shooting at, and what is behind it. That happened in my neighborhood two years ago. Upscale neighborhood. Not much crime. Father was not "deranged". Wonder how he is feeling now? I hope the kid lived, and is alright. Father should be charged with attempted murder.

We have got to keep firearms of all kinds out of the hands of people who should not have them. Not only 'deranged' people but youngsters, old farts who cannot see what they are shooting at and, of course, criminals. On this I agree with you

IT ABSOLUTELY IS THE GUN! Nope, it is the person that for whatever reason chooses to
use it to kill someone.​


We need a total ban on semi-automatic weapons and the devices that make them so effective at killing people. Many countries have tried this, and how has it worked for them? We need mandatory safety training, licensing and usage/storage requirements just as we do for vehicles. And we need mandatory and effective background checks to prevent 'deranged' persons from having guns of any type. Don't we already do?

I personally would like to see a mandatory 20 years imprisonment added to any crime committed with a gun. What we need is a return to the death penalty, but the crazy person that does this does not care about the punishment.

None of the above would negatively impact your personal enjoyment of target shooting or hunting so the only thing I can say if you continue to disagree with this direction is that you value your guns more than your children. I will use my gun to protect my children
Click to expand...


RinconRyder, ​
I think you are way off on your point of view
 
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