F3 SE6 and "Target" RPM's?

[newbert]

Does anyone know what the recommended RPM range or "sweet spot" is for the F3 SE6? At what RPM is it recommended that you shift up?

Thanks!

 

[JKMSPYDER]

SHIFT POINT

On my '15 F3-S I upshift between 3500 and 4000 RPM with my SE6. I think anything above 3000 would be OK. I prefer to manually downshift and do that at about 3000 RPM. Hope this helps.

 

[newbert]

On my '15 F3-S I upshift between 3500 and 4000 RPM with my SE6. I think anything above 3000 would be OK. I prefer to manually downshift and do that at about 3000 RPM. Hope this helps.

It does. Thanks!

 

[Slowpoke387]

4000 upshifts are seamless. 3000 downshifts are seamless. Dont wait for the machine to downshift for you, its an annoying affair at best.

 

[TRLBLZR1]

Engine doesn't even begin to produce power until higher RPM's, so why limit up-shifts @ 3k?
It hasn't even hit it's "power-band!" (One of the most mis-used powersports phrases lol.)

But seriously: Last thing you want to do (IMO) is make an engine LUG, right? 60%, maybe 65% of red-line is where I typically up-shift when I'm not trying to "squeeze juice."
And since the engine will spend much of it's life spinning/cruising in the 3k realm (or less), why not spin her up once in a while and enjoy?

~Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Bob Denman]

I can't believe that this discussion is ongoing... :banghead:
The fact of the matter, is that the 1330 has no sweet-spot: It really doesn't matter when you shift: the bike will like it just fine! :thumbup:
The answers in here tell a whole lot more about the riders; than it does the bikes! nojoke

 

[Easy Rider]

Does anyone know what the recommended RPM range or "sweet spot" is for the F3 SE6? At what RPM is it recommended that you shift up?

It depends on what your objective IS.
If it is fuel economy, shifting about 3500 and never getting above 4500 or so is fine.
If it is "sport riding", then shift around 4500 minimum.
The red line is the limit but practically about 1K below that is better.

 

[Easy Rider]

But seriously: Last thing you want to do (IMO) is make an engine LUG, right?
~Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Not wrong maybe but somewhat misleading.

You are in no way "lugging" the engine until you get down around 2500 RPM....in normal circumstances.

Now......if you are fully loaded and going uphill while pulling a trailer.......bump that up to 3500 or so.

 

[Bob Denman]

I shift into second at third at 2,000 rpm.
Fourth, fith and sixth get grabbed at 2,500 rpm.
I'm normally in sixth gear at 39 mph.
The bike doesn't lug: it just puts it's shoulder against the load, and makes magic happen!

CAVEAT: When climbing a steep hill: I will let the rpm levels come up a bit... :thumbup:


People worrying about lugging these engines can give it a rest.
You're trying to apply the warning given to owners of Post WW2 British sports cars. They had notoriously weak bottom ends in their engines, and they would break stuff if you didn't keep the revs up.
Rest assured that Rotax knows how to build a strong engine! nojoke

 

[petegtsv10]

The correct response to your questions requires more info from you. If you are just leaving a light with other traffic, low rpm shifts will be fine. (not so low as to "lug" engine, however) If you are merging onto an interstate, a minimum of a medium rpm is appropriate. If you are looking for max acceleration, then max rpm is required (near redline). Think of what an automatic transmission does in a performance car: If I pull away easily, it'll shift at 1500 rpm and be in 8th gear at 40 mph. If I floor the pedal, it'll shift at 7500 rpm and stay in 1st gear till almost 60 mph! Quite simply, the more degrees you rotate the throttle, the higher the rpm you should go before a shift.

 

[Easy Rider]

I shift into second at third at 2,000 rpm.
Fourth, fith and sixth get grabbed at 2,500 rpm.
I'm normally in sixth gear at 39 mph.
The bike doesn't lug: it just puts it's shoulder against the load, and makes magic happen!

Oh come on Bob.....REALLY ???

The engine idles about 1300 RPM so you are shifting only 700 RPM above idle.......with an engine that redlines at 8K ???

I don't believe in making like you are on a race track either but what you quoted above is extreme in the other direction.

At engine speeds that low things can happen suddenly that WILL lug the engine......and cause damage.
What you are doing is NOT good.
Loosen up a little.......or maybe you need to get a golf cart instead. :shocked:

 

[ARtraveler]

Some of us mentioned this in one of your previous threads.

From a personal standpoint, I shift between 3500 and 4000 most times. I like seamless, quiet, shifts. Also, like to let the machine downshift on its own--unless I need the power now--then I will manually downshift.

The 1330 does have a lot of low end torque.

Another .02 for the pile. :yes:

 

[Bob Denman]

Oh come on Bob.....REALLY ???
The engine idles about 1300 RPM so you are shifting only 700 RPM above idle.......with an engine that redlines at 8K ???
I don't believe in making like you are on a race track either but what you quoted above is extreme in the other direction.
At engine speeds that low things can happen suddenly that WILL lug the engine......and cause damage.
What you are doing is NOT good.
Loosen up a little.......or maybe you need to get a golf cart instead. :shocked:

I never said that you had to ride the way that I do...
And frankly: :lecturef_smilie: you're an idiot for sticking with that old tired "lug the engine" line!
The shifting is computer controlled: the bike will not let you shift too early! nojoke

Golf carts only have one useful place: the Town Dump! :roflblack:

 

[Easy Rider]

The shifting is computer controlled: the bike will not let you shift too early! nojoke

I have no personal knowledge of that......but am HIGHLY skeptical.
Just the numbers that you provided pretty much convinced me that it is NOT true.

ANY engine can be "lugged" and damaged......unless maybe an automatic transmission down shift saves it.

What happens with your machine if you approach a really STEEP hill at your minimum RPM in top gear and just hold the throttle steady as you try to climb that hill ??

Anyway, shifting like you claimed takes most of the fun out of riding. :banghead:

And it definitely is NOT good advice for those with a manual transmission and a smaller engine.
But I suppose you will want to argue about that too.

 

[LateLifeCrisis]

Humber Hawk

I shift into second at third at 2,000 rpm.
Fourth, fith and sixth get grabbed at 2,500 rpm.
I'm normally in sixth gear at 39 mph.
The bike doesn't lug: it just puts it's shoulder against the load, and makes magic happen!

CAVEAT: When climbing a steep hill: I will let the rpm levels come up a bit... :thumbup:


People worrying about lugging these engines can give it a rest.
You're trying to apply the warning given to owners of Post WW2 British sports cars. They had notoriously weak bottom ends in their engines, and they would break stuff if you didn't keep the revs up.
Rest assured that Rotax knows how to build a strong engine! nojoke

While stationed in England after the war, Dad and a few of his friends pooled their resources and bought a "Humber Hawk," or as Dad called it a "Hummer Hawk." He told stories of the "Bloody B*tch" (yeah, they named HER) leaving them stranded numerous times and you didn't dare start a trip unless you took along your trusty mechanic's tool bag and left word with someone at the base as to where you were headed. He also said SHE ran best when you kept HER in first or second second; third - if the road ahead was reasonably clear and only used fourth if you were going like a bat out of h*ll. It couldn't have been too bad as he always smile when he recalled the experiences of that period in his life. :cheers: Me thinks the beer helped as well.......

 

[Bob Denman]

I have no personal knowledge of that......but am HIGHLY skeptical.
Just the numbers that you provided pretty much convinced me that it is NOT true.
ANY engine can be "lugged" and damaged......unless maybe an automatic transmission down shift saves it.
What happens with your machine if you approach a really STEEP hill at your minimum RPM in top gear and just hold the throttle steady as you try to climb that hill ??
Anyway, shifting like you claimed takes most of the fun out of riding. :banghead:

Did I ever say that I never downshift depending on load and circumstances?
As far as "taking the fun out of riding": how do you define "fun"?

I simply shift at the lowest possible rpm levels allowed. My bike pulls hard from those levels, and I've never had a bit of trouble with clutches, connecting rods, crankshaft bearings, drivebelts, etc...

If you don't want to believe me: try it for yourself just once... :thumbup:

 

[Road-Kill]

I can't believe that this discussion is ongoing... :banghead:
The fact of the matter, is that the 1330 has no sweet-spot: It really doesn't matter when you shift: the bike will like it just fine! :thumbup:
The answers in here tell a whole lot more about the riders; than it does the bikes! nojoke

I agree 100%.

Adding to it: BRP responded in a previous thread because there was an ongoing and very stupid argument about what RPM to shift in. They (BRP) said "the tranny will handle it" in reference to whatever RPM you are in. In my opinion....what is your total added weight? how fast are you accelerating? I keep my RPMs between 3,000-4,000 until 6th gear then I let her rip, unless I'm accelerating really fast such as getting on a highway. My thoughts.

 

[Easy Rider]

If you don't want to believe me: try it for yourself just once... :thumbup:

Just because you are getting away with it does NOT change the fact that it is NOT A GOOD THING TO DO ALL THE TIME.

But I don't blame you for not taking my word for it.
The next time you are in a motorcycle shop......of any kind......Spyder is better.......ask every mechanic/technician that you can find about this.
Pick the ones who are over 40 years old. They don't teach stuff like this to new mechanics these days.

And then don't believe them either.
You certainly are free to do whatever you want with your ride.
Giving out bad advice to others, however, is something quite different.

 

[petegtsv10]

Here's an interesting observation regarding shifting at too low of an RPM: My ZO6 , which has gobs of TQ (650 lb/ft most available just above idle!), will indicate "shift denied" in the instrument cluster if you try to paddle shift the automatic upwards too soon. With the incredible TQ it produces, it could physically handle cruising and accelerating from < 1000 rpm, but the computer won't allow that. I wonder if it's related to "lugging". The manual version can fairly easily leave a stoplight in 5th gear if you wanted to prove a point.

 

[Bob Denman]

Just because you are getting away with it does NOT change the fact that it is NOT A GOOD THING TO DO ALL THE TIME.

But I don't blame you for not taking my word for it.
The next time you are in a motorcycle shop......of any kind......Spyder is better.......ask every mechanic/technician that you can find about this.
Pick the ones who are over 40 years old. They don't teach stuff like this to new mechanics these days.

And then don't believe them either. .

Ahhhhhhhh... But I DO believe them! :thumbup:
When you ask the mechanics about MODERN engines: they say that there's nothing to worry about.
ESPECIALLY in computer -controlled engines that also control the shift points.

But if you ask them about long-stroke, high displacement engines from a different era: their answers change.