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Understeering in curves
I'm three weeks into my 3-wheeled life after 10 years on 2 wheels. Yes, it is a transition as adverstised. I'm finding that the biggest challenge is that I appear to be understeering on curves at highway speed. I've had a couple of episodes of the sensation of the inside wheel lifting (which I know isn't possible) yet I'm trying to take the advice I've seen here on not having a death grip so that the Spyder isn't feeling jittery. And I'm guessing that the answers are going to be getting more experience and the steering will become natural. Any other suggestions on avoiding what I think is understeering???
2019 Can Am F3 Limited
Spyder Upgrades/mods:
F4 Windscreen,
Ultimate seat and Driver's backrest,
Lamonster Fog lights,
Lamonster Brake Rod kit,
CanAm Short Reach Handlebar
Other Current Bike: 2009 Honda Shadow 750 Aero
Past Bikes:
2018 BMW C650CT
2013 BMW C650GT
2011 Honda SH150i
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Time and experience........................
Look where you are going. Don't look down at the road. Look farther ahead. You will follow your eyes.
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Lean your body into the turn a little more... and try planting your outside foot.
2017 Can Am Commander Limited
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Black Diamond
2020 F3 Limited Magma Red (miss the 2011 Viper red)
2010 RT622 - Black
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A few things to think about, but once you become one with the Spyder, it will all fall into place.
Try this:
Enter all curves at such a speed that you do not have to brake at the beginning. Ideally, you should be able to accelerate during the curve.
Apex the curves...that is...enter from the inside of the curve and track to the outside of the curve. Look at where you are going...your Spyder will follow the route.
To avoid "g" forces...plant your outside foot on the pegs or foot board, grab the gas tank with the knees and lean slightly into the curve.
All of these things done together, will result in you enjoying the twisties. I can go 20 mph above the posted curve speed, but am more comfortable with 10 to 15 mph over.
May the force be with you.
EDIT: see post #19 A great graph is shown explaining "apex." I do the LATE APEX version.
Last edited by ARtraveler; 06-30-2020 at 11:05 AM.
Currently Owned: 2019 F3 Limited, 2020 F3 Limited: SOLD BOTH LIMITEDS in October of 2023.
Previously : 2008 GS-SM5 (silver), 2009 RS-SE5 (red), 2010 RT-S Premier Editon #474 (black) 2011 RT A&C SE5 (magnesium) 2014 RTS-SE6 (yellow)
MY FINAL TALLY: 7 Spyders, 15 years, 205,500 miles
IT HAS BEEN A LONG, WONDERFUL, AND FUN RIDE.
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This is how we teach it Speed, Position, Aim, Turn. Adjust your speed before you enter the turn, Position refers to both your position on the bike (shift weight and lean to the inside of the curve) and your position in the lane, Aim all the way through to the exit of the curve, turning your head and looking all the way through the turn and finally Turn. Repeat.
2017 F3T-SM6 Squared Away Mirror Wedgies & Alignment
2014 RTS-SM6 123,600 miles Sold 11/2017
2014 RTL-SE6 8,600 miles
2011 RTS-SM5 5,000 miles
2013 RTS-SM5 burned up with 13,200 miles in 13 weeks
2010 RTS-SM5 59,148 miles
2010 RT- 622
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Most of us 2 to 3 wheel riders went thru the same feelings. At first i thought this thing is going to flop on its side anytime. I found it helped my confidence in its ability to corner when I was doing lower speed corners down town. Then I started going around them faster. They are very stable machines. Then I started riding with a couple other spyder owners. I'll call them spirited riders. These things will handle a corner a lot better than my Street Glide. I now feel it is more like snowmobiling than motorcycling. Can't wait for the next corner. Now that I've got the hang of it I can't stop riding it. I have over 7000 miles on my less than 1 year old RTL. Take your time get comfortable with it and most of all keep it fun.
2021 RTL Chrome Deep Marsala
HELI Bars
Garmin Zumo XT
USB power port
Front fender lights & Sequential turn signals
Front LED Auxiliary light
Flashing brake module TricLED
Baha Ron sway bar
belt tensioner
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Got this off another video and thought it was pertinent to cornering on a Spyder. It's from a Youtube video about Engineering Connections (Richard Hammond) Bullet Train.
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I pop my wheels up all the time... the nanny is always getting mad at me, but I don’t like slowing down. Planting your foot and shifting your whole body weight, you can take turns and keep all the wheels down a lot better, but I always keep pushing it.
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Active Member
Originally Posted by ARtraveler
A few things to think about, but once you become one with the Spyder, it will all fall into place.
Try this:
Enter all curves at such a speed that you do not have to brake at the beginning. Ideally, you should be able to accelerate during the curve.
Apex the curves...that is...enter from the inside and track to the outside. Look at where you are going...your Spyder will follow the route.
To avoid "g" forces...plant your outside foot on the pegs or foot board, grab the gas tank with the knees and lean slightly into the curve.
All of these things done together, will result in you enjoying the twisties. I can go 20 mph above the posted curve speed, but am more comfortable with 10 to 15 mph over.
May the force be with you.
You've got that exactly backwards! Apexing a corner is just the opposite of what you posted. As you enter a turn, left's say a left-hander in this example, your bike should be close to the the outside edge of the lane. As you start into the turn, the bike should be headed towards the apex of the corner.....the half way point of the turn. As you pass the apex of that corner you can slowly start applying the throttle again and let it run "wide" towards the outside of the lane again. The whole purpose of this is to "straighten out" the corner as much as possible, which will allow you to go faster through the corner. Doing it like you posted has the exact opposite affect.
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Originally Posted by scorpion56
And I'm guessing that the answers are going to be getting more experience and the steering will become natural. Any other suggestions on avoiding what I think is understeering???
Have you had the front wheels laser aligned? If not find someone who uses the Rolo alignment system and have the wheels aligned. Misalignment can cause various steering problems, including under and over steering. Spyders are quite often not well aligned coming from the factory.
2014 Copper RTS
Tri-Axis bars, CB, BajaRon sway bar & shock adjusters, SpyderPop's Bumpskid, NBV peg brackets, LED headlights and modulator, Wolo trumpet air horns, trailer hitch, custom trailer harness, high mount turn signals, Custom Dynamics brake light, LED turn signal lights on mirrors, LED strip light for a dash light, garage door opener, LED lights in frunk, trunk, and saddlebags, RAM mounts and cradles for tablet (for GPS) and phone (for music), and Smooth Spyder belt tensioner.
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Originally Posted by triplethreat
You've got that exactly backwards! Apexing a corner is just the opposite of what you posted. As you enter a turn, left's say a left-hander in this example, your bike should be close to the the outside edge of the lane. As you start into the turn, the bike should be headed towards the apex of the corner.....the half way point of the turn. As you pass the apex of that corner you can slowly start applying the throttle again and let it run "wide" towards the outside of the lane again. The whole purpose of this is to "straighten out" the corner as much as possible, which will allow you to go faster through the corner. Doing it like you posted has the exact opposite affect.
And sometimes give an added cushion for running wide or time to close the throttle and stay on the pavement.
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Very Active Member
If you have true understeer with the front tires pushing through the corners, you might consider checking tire pressures to bring up the grip.
Our Spyder with oem Kenda tires gave the impression of understeer, but was actually flexing the tires under the rim excessively.
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Entering a turn on the outside of the lane is exactly right (as much as you can on a Spyder without crowding the centerline). Plus this method gives a bit more visibility to what’s around the turn!
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I've got Vredsteins up front and I can definitely feel and hear them howling and sliding on hard turns. It's not much but more than my Kendas did. I'm running my pressure at 18 up front and I think if I raised it a little it probably would help but since its only on very hard turns I'll leave it as is. BTW, OP said it's not possible to pick up inside tire but that's not true at all, I've done it and seen many pics of guys with that tire off the ground, but the Nanny will kick in and bring it down.
Last edited by Peter Aawen; 11-25-2023 at 04:19 PM.
Reason: ' 's ;-)
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: 2017 RTL ORBITAL BLUE
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Originally Posted by triplethreat
You've got that exactly backwards! Apexing a corner is just the opposite of what you posted. As you enter a turn, left's say a left-hander in this example, your bike should be close to the the outside edge of the lane. As you start into the turn, the bike should be headed towards the apex of the corner.....the half way point of the turn. As you pass the apex of that corner you can slowly start applying the throttle again and let it run "wide" towards the outside of the lane again. The whole purpose of this is to "straighten out" the corner as much as possible, which will allow you to go faster through the corner. Doing it like you posted has the exact opposite affect.
I guess I should have said enter from the "Inside" of the curve...and track to the outside of the curve
Last edited by ARtraveler; 06-30-2020 at 10:52 AM.
Currently Owned: 2019 F3 Limited, 2020 F3 Limited: SOLD BOTH LIMITEDS in October of 2023.
Previously : 2008 GS-SM5 (silver), 2009 RS-SE5 (red), 2010 RT-S Premier Editon #474 (black) 2011 RT A&C SE5 (magnesium) 2014 RTS-SE6 (yellow)
MY FINAL TALLY: 7 Spyders, 15 years, 205,500 miles
IT HAS BEEN A LONG, WONDERFUL, AND FUN RIDE.
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Originally Posted by ARtraveler
I should have said enter from the "Inside" of the curve...and track to the outside of the curve
Here is a comparison of two different entries into a corner....a "late" apex and an "early" apex. As you can see by the description, a late apex does exactly what I was referring to in my previous post....it "straightens" the corner out much more than an early apex. There are obviously other advantages to late apexing a corner, as described in the picture.
I spent 7 years working as an Instructor/Coach with the largest motorcycle Track Day organization in the U.S.....the last 3 as one of the Lead Instructors. We always taught customers that were riding with us, given the choice of late apexing or early apexing, take the late apex, as there are so many more advantages to it. There are of course other options besides the two shown here on the pict, but that is geared more for tracks days/racing applications and are way beyond the scope of this topic. So to recap, Setup on the far side of the lane for a left-hander, start the turn in from there and let your eyes take you to the apex. Then after apexing the corner, head still up and looking at your exit point, get back on the throttle and smoothly drive to the exit point of the turn....which is the far side of the lane. Making a right-hander is done the same way except you start as close to the center line as is safe to do....and end up at the center line or as close as it's safe to do....
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I owned a Harley Ultra before surgeries put me on my F3. Totally different riding sensation, but really enjoying my new ride! Now have 1200 miles on it, best piece of advice I've received is when you initiate your turn, (right turn, let's say) straighten your left arm, push off your left foot, and lean into the turn like a GP dude keeping your upper body facing forward like a downhill skier. It gives me the feeling of pushing my butt back into the seat and planting it... feels very secure and under control. Once I started doing this and stopped trying to "muscle" my bike through the turn, it felt effortless. I also agree with everyone to hold that grip like a baby bird bro; us newbies tend to strangle that thang, especially at high speed on a straight away. When I have hit an unexpected bump or pothole with a death grip, the bike does not react well. Give the horse its lead and the ride is a lot smoother and way less effort.
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Originally Posted by triplethreat
Here is a comparison of two different entries into a corner....a "late" apex and an "early" apex. As you can see by the description, a late apex does exactly what I was referring to in my previous post....it "straightens" the corner out much more than an early apex. There are obviously other advantages to late apexing a corner, as described in the picture.
I spent 7 years working as an Instructor/Coach with the largest motorcycle Track Day organization in the U.S.....the last 3 as one of the Lead Instructors. We always taught customers that were riding with us, given the choice of late apexing or early apexing, take the late apex, as there are so many more advantages to it. There are of course other options besides the two shown here on the pict, but that is geared more for tracks days/racing applications and are way beyond the scope of this topic. So to recap, Setup on the far side of the lane for a left-hander, start the turn in from there and let your eyes take you to the apex. Then after apexing the corner, head still up and looking at your exit point, get back on the throttle and smoothly drive to the exit point of the turn....which is the far side of the lane. Making a right-hander is done the same way except you start as close to the center line as is safe to do....and end up at the center line or as close as it's safe to do....
I guess I will just not mention the word "apex" as I see it can mean different things. I am a "late apex" type of driver. That graph shows exactly what I was trying to say.
Last edited by ARtraveler; 06-30-2020 at 10:55 AM.
Currently Owned: 2019 F3 Limited, 2020 F3 Limited: SOLD BOTH LIMITEDS in October of 2023.
Previously : 2008 GS-SM5 (silver), 2009 RS-SE5 (red), 2010 RT-S Premier Editon #474 (black) 2011 RT A&C SE5 (magnesium) 2014 RTS-SE6 (yellow)
MY FINAL TALLY: 7 Spyders, 15 years, 205,500 miles
IT HAS BEEN A LONG, WONDERFUL, AND FUN RIDE.
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Originally Posted by spyder01
Ive got Vredsteins up front and I can definitely feel and hear them howling and sliding on hard turns.Its not much but more than my Kendas did.Im running my pressure at 18 up front and I think if I raised it a little it probably would help but since its only on very hard turns Ill leave it as is.BTW OP said its not possible to pick up indside tire but that's not true at all,Ive done it and seen many pics of guys with tire off ground,but nanny will kick in and bring it down.
What's more important to you .... sound or traction ???? ..... sometimes you can't achieve both in the same tire .... jmho ..... Mike
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Originally Posted by ARtraveler
I guess I will just not mention the word "apex" as I see it can mean different things. I am a "late apex" type of driver. That graph shows exactly what I was trying to say.
I think where the misunderstanding in terminology is; you are saying enter from the inside of the curve. The entry is actually started at where you first turn (or on a 2 wheel motorcycle..where you start your lean in) and in the illustration, that would be when the bike is right next to the left black line and you transition from the bike going straight.....to starting the turn. The apex is obviously the center of the turn, and the ideal exit point is right back at the black line on the left. In a normal street scenario, that black line at the left would be the yellow or double yellow line that divides the two lanes of traffic. I'm pretty sure we are both thinking the same thing, but I just wanted to add some clarification so that no one thought that you should actually be at the inside part of the lane when they started their turn......on right hander like the one illustrated above.
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Originally Posted by Gwolf
Time and experience........................
Look where you are going. Don't look down at the road. Look farther ahead. You will follow your eyes.
This was hard to do at first for me. Kind of like riding off road, if there are two rocks with just enough room between them for the tires LOOK EXACTLY AT THE SPACE, NOT AT EITHER ROCK. Look as far into the curve as you can see. Your brain knows what to do, let it.
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Thanks everyone for all the good advice. This forum is so useful. I've spent time hunting down curves to practice on. I found that the postings about lane position and apex really made a huge difference into the effectiveness of my turns. And my confidence going thru them. I know that I learned all of that in moto school years ago (and it's in the Spyder manual), but the last many years on two wheels made me lazy I think.
2019 Can Am F3 Limited
Spyder Upgrades/mods:
F4 Windscreen,
Ultimate seat and Driver's backrest,
Lamonster Fog lights,
Lamonster Brake Rod kit,
CanAm Short Reach Handlebar
Other Current Bike: 2009 Honda Shadow 750 Aero
Past Bikes:
2018 BMW C650CT
2013 BMW C650GT
2011 Honda SH150i
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