Front Sprocket Spline Failures

[PMK]

Yes, well I know what fretting is but many of the pictures of the issue have the rust on the outside of the sprocket. So if the bolt is tight and it's sealed and fretting, how does the fretted material get out of the spline to the outside of the sprocket?

IMHO there's water involved. That Mariner's Choice never seize looks about the ticket to me!

All the best with your plan. If you fully understand fretting and the dynamics of how it is created, and propagates, plus have such faith in a using an anti seize vs more focused spline lubricant simply enjoy.

For others reading this, the pulley is made of steel, same as the gearbox output shaft. Many people assume that seeing the rust involves moisture or water. In normal cases, such as a body panel on a car, you see the rust and it has that typical reddish color. The reddish color is the conversion of the iron within the steel, into iron oxide. In that situation, yes, water corrodes the material when combined with other stuff. Fretting is a non moisture, high pressure type corrosion. The pressure within the joint of two or more items still allows microscopic movement. On aircraft we often see fretting as rivets with black rings around the heads. Aluminum oxide is blackish in color. Again, rivets are a high pressure expanded tightly fit when properly driven. The Spyder pulley, with tension from the drive belt, and the inability to prevent the pulley from walking around the splines of the shaft as the pulley rotates, creates the needed movement for fretting to occurr. As for the idea of moisture being the culprit, consider the heat given off by the engines exhaust, plus the gearbox shaft itself runs a touch warm. These applications of heat would minimize any water intrusion issues or concerns if they existed. Regardless of how tight the bolt is, the pulley will still walk as the shaft is turned. The bolt does not apply anywhere near enough friction to the pulley mounting to prevent the pulley from moving. Consider, if the splines were removed, would the bolt and washer alone be adequate to propel the Spyder forward. Obviously, no. The splines are responsible for 99.999999% of making the Spyder drive go to the wheel.

Could it be simply viable that as the splines fret, the pulley is now able to not only walk more on the splines, but also begin to not run true on center with the shaft AND with that, the washer and pulley faces begin to wear, creating the red dust from even more fretting that we see on the exterior of the pulley.

The drive pulley is a maintenance item and wear item. While not specified in the manual to routinely remove the drive pulley, clean the splines, inspect, and if serviceable, lubricate and reinstall. What interval to reinspect, with a quality proper lubricant a guess is the 28,000 mile check.

[dondje]

All the best with your plan. If you fully understand fretting and the dynamics of how it is created, and propagates, plus have such faith in a using an anti seize vs more focused spline lubricant simply enjoy.

The drive pulley is a maintenance item and wear item. While not specified in the manual to routinely remove the drive pulley, clean the splines, inspect, and if serviceable, lubricate and reinstall. What interval to reinspect, with a quality proper lubricant a guess is the 28,000 mile check.

The anti seize that I referenced is an extreme high pressure lubricant designed for this type of application and more. It has an added benefit of anti seize properties and is extremely water proof. That is why the military uses it for all kinds of spline applications at sea and other extreme conditions. As I stated earlier, I believe that the factory lubricant breaks down. This creates an increased tolerance between the pulley and the shaft for wear (you call fretting), along with allowing water intrusion. Moisture's roll is when it does get in (yes it drys out, becoming a cycle), it helps breakdown of the lube even faster, and helps the acceleration of the color change of the iron dust.

My thought for using the product I introduced is that not only does it have some of the best lubricating properties I know of that are needed for this application. Read its spec sheet. Just as important, and what makes it stand out in this case, is it also has staying properties that I don't believe the factory or most any other lube has.

I agree with you that this a maintenance issue. I also believe from the millage that people are having problems at, that the stock lube should be replaced asap after purchase. What people use is up to them. I know what
I am going to use. From that point, only time will tell.

Regards,

Don

[TerryTheSpyderRyder]

The anti seize that I referenced is an extreme high pressure lubricant designed for this type of application and more. It has an added benefit of anti seize properties and is extremely water proof. That is why the military uses it for all kinds of spline applications at sea and other extreme conditions. As I stated earlier, I believe that the factory lubricant breaks down. This creates an increased tolerance between the pulley and the shaft for wear (you call fretting), along with allowing water intrusion. Moisture's roll is when it does get in (yes it drys out, becoming a cycle), it helps breakdown of the lube even faster, and helps the acceleration of the color change of the iron dust.

My thought for using the product I introduced is that not only does it have some of the best lubricating properties I know of that are needed for this application. Read its spec sheet. Just as important, and what makes it stand out in this case, is it also has staying properties that I don't believe the factory or most any other lube has.

I agree with you that this a maintenance issue. I also believe from the millage that people are having problems at, that the stock lube should be replaced asap after purchase. What people use is up to them. I know what
I am going to use. From that point, only time will tell.

Regards,

Don

Also, extreme belt tension can cause/hasten wear on the drive sprocket and counter shaft splines. If it's whining back there, loosen the tension until it's just tight enough to be quiet and have no slop.

[Freddy]

Also, extreme belt tension can cause/hasten wear on the drive sprocket and counter shaft splines. If it's whining back there, loosen the tension until it's just tight enough to be quiet and have no slop.

That's guess work. Correct tension is better but EXTREME tension certainly ain't.