SM5 Clutch Slipping

[Chief-J]

Hello all;

I have a 2011 RT-S SM5. It has been great for the past two years, now that I have 15,500 miles the clutch has started to slip. I was on I-95 doing about 60 MPH. Is this about the time the clutch startes to go?

Thanks and be safe out there.

Chief

[kman]

I have over 28,000 miles on my 09gs and no slipping.

[TuckMiddle]

38000 on my 2011 RTS 5
Clutch has been perfect and I hope remains that way
Better get it looked at ASAP
Tuck

[finless]

I am no expert but was told the SM5 has a wet clutch. Check you oil level maybe?

Bob

[spydaman60]

thought i had a little slippage a month ago and found out it was due to dirty hydrolic clutch fluid. normally i guess that is supposed to be checked every four to five thousand miles. mine had 12.000 miles on it and it had never been changed. once changed and bled, no issue. good luck!!

[Chief-J]

I have it in the shop now getting checked out. Have a great team that works on my RT. Hope its something simple!

[spydaman60]

I have it in the shop now getting checked out. Have a great team that works on my RT. Hope its something simple!

let us know what it was!

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Spyderjockey has well over 90,000 miles and I'm 99.999 % sure He has an SM also ......I don't remember Him having any clutch issues......He may read this and chime in.........Mike

[gypsy_100]

Hello all;

I have a 2011 RT-S SM5. It has been great for the past two years, now that I have 15,500 miles the clutch has started to slip. I was on I-95 doing about 60 MPH. Is this about the time the clutch startes to go?

Thanks and be safe out there.

Chief

I am no expert but was told the SM5 has a wet clutch. Check you oil level maybe?

Bob

thought i had a little slippage a month ago and found out it was due to dirty hydrolic clutch fluid. normally i guess that is supposed to be checked every four to five thousand miles. mine had 12.000 miles on it and it had never been changed. once changed and bled, no issue. good luck!!

Both SE's and SM's use almost the same clutch. The difference is in how they are actuated. Either way, they are bathed in engine oil, hence a "wet clutch". It has nothing to do with the hydraulic clutch fluid. That is the fluid, DOT 4 Brake Fluid by the way, that fills the hydraulic circuit between your clutch lever (the master cylinder) and the slave cylinder that actuates the clutch plates. That clutch fluid is a maintenance item and should be flushed out for corrosion and contamination reasons. Almost any weakness in that hydraulic circuit (extreme moisture pickup, dirt, leakage, etc) would make it difficult to disengage your clutch. You would have difficulty getting it into gear at a rest, getting into reverse, etc. It would not cause slippage.

What kind of oil are you using in the engine? While BRP simply specifies not to use oils rated SM, a better thing to look for is an oil made specifically for motorcycles with a JASO rating that says JASO MA or better yet MA2. These are Japanese specs for motorcycle oil that insures the oils will perform well in a wet clutch and not cause slippage. If you happened to use automotive oil in your engine, it could cause clutch slippage. If you always have the oil changed by the dealer and he uses the specified BRP oil, then you should be fine.

A good clutch that is not abused (excessive slipping by the operator) should last "forever". A long time. 100,000 miles or longer. Let us know what your dealer thinks.

[BajaRon]

The 1st thing I would ask is what oil are you using? And have you put any additives into the oil? That is very low mileage to have your clutch slipping. I'm pretty hard on my clutch and it's fine at 35k+

If you are not using a JASO MA2 rated oil I would definitely change it regardless of which Spyder model you're riding.

If you do not know what your JASO rating is it is a very good idea to find out. Once the clutch starts to slip you are looking at a pretty good repair bill in short order.

You know the old adage, an ounce of prevention....

[ARtraveler]

Please keep us posted. My first was an SM5 and I experienced no clutch problems up to 23,500 miles--when I traded it off.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

The 1st thing I would ask is what oil are you using? And have you put any additives into the oil? That is very low mileage to have your clutch slipping. I'm pretty hard on my clutch and it's fine at 35k+

If you are not using a JASO MA2 rated oil I would definitely change it regardless of which Spyder model you're riding.

If you do not know what your JASO rating is it is a very good idea to find out. Once the clutch starts to slip you are looking at a pretty good repair bill in short order.

You know the old adage, an ounce of prevention....

Ron, originally BRP stated you absolutely had to use their Synthetic oil in the Spyder or you might have catistrophic failure or some such non-sense,,so now BRP ( without any major changes to compensate ) says their BLENDED oil is fine ? ? ?........Do you know of ANY blended oil that meets JASO MA2 specs and I believe in AMSOIL .......Mike

[gypsy_100]

The 1st thing I would ask is what oil are you using? And have you put any additives into the oil? That is very low mileage to have your clutch slipping. I'm pretty hard on my clutch and it's fine at 35k+

If you are not using a JASO MA2 rated oil I would definitely change it regardless of which Spyder model you're riding.

If you do not know what your JASO rating is it is a very good idea to find out. Once the clutch starts to slip you are looking at a pretty good repair bill in short order.

You know the old adage, an ounce of prevention....

Agree on changing it. If you don't know what it is or do know that it's not MA2. If you caught it early and haven't abused it by trying to make it slip over and over again, it may be as simple as just changing the oil. No damage done. Excessive slipping can wear down the friction plates and/or generate excessive heat that oxidizes the metal plates. Then, as Ron said, you're looking at some serious money. Let's hope not.

[Huddleston]

How do you know that your clutch is slipping? What are the symptoms?

[Chupaca]

and have your fluids checked. Let us know...we have 14,000+ miles with no problems...!!

[finless]

How do you know that your clutch is slipping? What are the symptoms?

You give it gas and the engine revs but you don't go anywhere or if you do it is slow acceleration.

Bob

[Huddleston]

You give it gas and the engine revs but you don't go anywhere or if you do it is slow acceleration.

Bob

Thanks Bob, but I was actually wanting to know what the symptoms were for Chief-J who started the thread.

[PistonBlown]

How do you know that your clutch is slipping? What are the symptoms?

One example is when accelerating the engine rev's go up but the actual speed of the bike does not increase/increases slowly. Basically on a manual Spyder (or any other motorbike) it's like you've only half released the clutch lever.

To get a feel for it: put your hands together quite hard in a praying position and turn one hand while , the other will move with it - that's normal clutch. Now do lightly press together both hands and move one, one hand will move and will stay in place or just move slightly but slip, that's a clutch slipping.

As already mentioned a common cause on motorcycles with 'wet' clutches like Spyders is the use of the wrong oil. Motorcycle oils have extra additives for wet clutches that normal car oils don't contain. As result using a car oil, even one that seems to be a matching grade, can cause clutch slip. If this is the cause and the problems caught before it does further damage though extra wear on the clutch plates, then just changing the oil can fix the issue - though it may take a few miles for the clutch to recover.

[BajaRon]

Ron, originally BRP stated you absolutely had to use their Synthetic oil in the Spyder or you might have catistrophic failure or some such non-sense,,so now BRP ( without any major changes to compensate ) says their BLENDED oil is fine ? ? ?........Do you know of ANY blended oil that meets JASO MA2 specs and I believe in AMSOIL .......Mike

I would assume that the Blended oil BRP sells meets JASO MA2 standards. But from what I've heard it doesn't list specs on the container so who knows. But if it did not I think we would see a lot more slippage so I would not be concerned about clutch slippage using any of the BRP recommended oils.

But if someone topped off with the wrong oil or changed to a wrong oil, that can spin your clutch in a hurry.

The Spyder seems to be more susceptible to clutch slippage than most motorcycles. It may be that the spring pressure is a bit low to keep clutch lever pressure low (at least in the Manual). But for whatever reason, you need to stay away from low rated or no rated wet clutch specs.

One more thing that people don't always realize is that there is a range within both the MA1 and the MA2 ratings. Your oil could be near the bottom of the MA2 rating and be just a bit better than another oil at the top of the MA1 rating.

Amsoil isn't the only true synthetic out there but their MC oil is near the top of the MA2 rating which is a very good thing for our Spyders.

It is true that if you catch it soon enough and do a complete oil/filter change to a good JASO MA2 rated oil, you can usually save your clutch and live happily ever after. It's certainly worth a try before buying a new clutch.

[NancysToy]

I would assume that the Blended oil BRP sells meets JASO MA2 standards. But from what I've heard it doesn't list specs on the container so who knows. But if it did not I think we would see a lot more slippage so I would not be concerned about clutch slippage using any of the BRP recommended oils.

But if someone topped off with the wrong oil or changed to a wrong oil, that can spin your clutch in a hurry.

The Spyder seems to be more susceptible to clutch slippage than most motorcycles. It may be that the spring pressure is a bit low to keep clutch lever pressure low (at least in the Manual). But for whatever reason, you need to stay away from low rated or no rated wet clutch specs.

One more thing that people don't always realize is that there is a range within both the MA1 and the MA2 ratings. Your oil could be near the bottom of the MA2 rating and be just a bit better than another oil at the top of the MA1 rating.

Amsoil isn't the only true synthetic out there but their MC oil is near the top of the MA2 rating which is a very good thing for our Spyders.

It is true that if you catch it soon enough and do a complete oil/filter change to a good JASO MA2 rated oil, you can usually save your clutch and live happily ever after. It's certainly worth a try before buying a new clutch.

I'd be surprised if the blended oil met JASO MA2 standards. If they are labeled at all, it would likely only be JASO MA. I know of no MA2's except full synthetics, but there might be some. I don't think the BRP oil is JASO labeled at all...and they do not specify a JASO rated oil, unless they recently changed.

For those that don't know, JASO used to rate motorcycle oils that have passed their specs and tests "MA" if the oils were suitable for motorcycle wet clutch use. A few years ago they broke that rating into two parts...MA1 which was the the "slipperier" end of the rating, and MA2 which provided the very best grab. Both are usually suitable, as are most of the old MA rated oils, but for the least likely to cause clutch problems and slippage, choose the MA2 rated oils. They are the very best for wet clutch use and the MA1/MA2 standard is the most recent and most careful protocol...more defined than the old MA standard.

How'd I do Ron? I hope I didn't tell any lies.

[BajaRon]

I'd be surprised if the blended oil met JASO MA2 standards. If they are labeled at all, it would likely only be JASO MA. I know of no MA2's except full synthetics, but there might be some. I don't think the BRP oil is JASO labeled at all...and they do not specify a JASO rated oil, unless they recently changed.

For those that don't know, JASO used to rate motorcycle oils that have passed their specs and tests "MA" if the oils were suitable for motorcycle wet clutch use. A few years ago they broke that rating into two parts...MA1 which was the the "slipperier" end of the rating, and MA2 which provided the very best grab. Both are usually suitable, as are most of the old MA rated oils, but for the least likely to cause clutch problems and slippage, choose the MA2 rated oils. They are the very best for wet clutch use and the MA1/MA2 standard is the most recent and most careful protocol...more defined than the old MA standard.

How'd I do Ron? I hope I didn't tell any lies.

I know a lot about some oils, and not a lot about a lot of oils...

You may be right about the blended oil ratings. I have no idea what the typical blended oil JASO rating is because I personally do not believe in using blended oils in anything. It's either worth going all the way (like my Spyder) or it gets straight oil (like my son's 1989 Honda Accord - You'd understand if you saw it ).

But the fact that there has not been any significant slippage issues with the BRP blended oil means that it at least works ok. So that's what I'm going on there since BRP chooses not to give any information.

I do know that some have tried JASO MA (or MA1) rated oils and gotten slippage, changed (immediately) back to BRP, Amsoil or other proven oil and had no more problems.

There are certainly a number of very good lubricants out there that we cannot use in our Spyder specifically because of the wet clutch requirement.

[ulflyer]

I've used all three, mostly Amsoil, and had a lab test done on all. Valvoline is, like Amsoil, synthetic and nearly as good. Both were shearing quite a bit at 3000 miles; from 40W down to mid to low 30W. Castrol too, makes synthetic, but they also make a ton of other weights in a BLEND. Since its been said Castrol makes BRP oil I decided to try it and ordered some off the internet. No local stores stocked it. Called Castrol Actevo Blend 10-40 Jaso MA2. I recently tested it, at 2000 miles, since I was dealing with a relative unknown. It tested at 2000mi about the same as Amsoil and Valvoline did at 3000mi. Not a very hardy oil.

The upside is my transmission is noticably smoother than before, particularly in reverse and shifting to first gear. Less clunky, smoother take offs. Previously, my reverse was sort of rachety; now its not. I'm thinking the blend has something to do with this.

The choice for me is, change frequently or go back to Amsoil.

Whether or not BRP is the same as Castrol is unknown as I've never used it nor tested it.

[gypsy_100]

You may be right about the blended oil ratings. I have no idea what the typical blended oil JASO rating is because I personally do not believe in using blended oils in anything. It's either worth going all the way (like my Spyder) or it gets straight oil (like my son's 1989 Honda Accord -

Agree on both counts. Seems like motorcycle oils are either regular oil or fully synthetic. Not blends. Can't say I've ever seen a blended motorcycle oil. Like you, I'd never use one. It's sort of like buying a fine wine and then diluting it with Thunderbird to save a buck (no offense to Thunderbird drinkers). I've been using full synthetic in all my cars since 1991 and routinely put over 200,000 miles on them. Current fleet is in the 150,000 range and doing fine. Full synthetic in the bikes, too, with my 'Wing having over 100,000 miles and no problems at all, including perfect clutch operation. For the other bikes, I settle for MA which has been fine, including the 'Wing -- sometimes Amsoil (MA2) and sometimes Mobil 1 which is MA. But because of reported slippage problems on the Spyders, I only use MA2 which usually means Amsoil.

[Lamonster]

I picked this info up searching around.

Found out what was causing the clutch slipping issues. Oil in the airbox should have been my number one area to look at. After exhausting all suggestions from all of you and still having a slipping clutch, it was the airbox at fault. On an RT there is a foam filter in the airbox on the left rear side of the airbox. This is the filter that filters air or gases from the crank case vent on the rear cylinder. When I removed the airbox there was a considerable amount of oil in the airbox. I removed the crank case vent filter and it was saturated with oil. Once it was cleaned dried and unit was reassembled the clutch did not slip anymore. So, long story short, excessive crank case pressure was cause of the slipping clutch. Thanks everyone for your input and I hope this saves lots of aggravation for someone else.

[bruiser]

I picked this info up searching around.

Now that is interesting.