Potential to Make Some Money - Ram Air Scoops

[CyncySpyder]

Yup! Yup!Maybe just do a naked version of the Spyder!

[Bob Denman]

Dave,
Seeing your AMPLE jugs, on a Tuesday morning...

Back to what Coz said for a moment...
he's absolutely right; It's my own honest (and unfortunate) opinion, that some folks in here are experiencing the joys of riding for the first time... They might not have th "benefit" of riding some of our more "compromised" bikes over the years.
But when parts are melting; that's a horse of a different color...

And my apologies to those out there who have hot body parts, AND have ridden for years...

[coz]

There are people here who have done exactly that. Some have traveled hundreds of miles to a great dealer, AND, are still reporting problems.

What would you suggest they do?

I'm sure they will hang on your every word.

maybe these folks should file a class action.

[Jeriatric]

Been throwing a leg over bikes since 1957. There were some that were hotter than others. That said, a first class, high end, Touring Bike, should not present heat issues for the rider. If it does...then the manufacturer missed the mark.

Dave,
Seeing your AMPLE jugs, on a Tuesday morning...

Back to what Coz said for a moment...
he's absolutely right; It's my own honest (and unfortunate) opinion, that some folks in here are experiencing the joys of riding for the first time... They might not have th "benefit" of riding some of our more "compromised" bikes over the years.
But when parts are melting; that's a horse of a different color...

And my apologies to those out there who have hot body parts, AND have ridden for years...

May be ?

maybe these folks should file a class action.

[anthony422]

[QUOTE=CyncySpyder;713189]No doubt, what you say has merrit, but think about it......... what would that really solve?

You'd be forcing ambient air into the engine compartment only when your moving at higher speeds.
I don't think most of us complain all that much about that issue in particular. (IMHO) The real problem seems to be when we're going slow or in stop & go traffic, & the heat builds up under the tupperware and when the radiator kicks on and causes the right foot to get torched The solution of the air scoop under the mirrors wouldn't really help much in these cases....... would it?
Heat rises, and those vents were placed there in an effort to give the heat another route of escape, instead of being trapped under the tupperware. Many of the posts I've read about the Vertika air-scoops that owners have them installed are not all that glowing of an endorsement and the results seem marginal at best, again at least from what I've read. I've yet to see anyone post that it relieved their problems with the heat.



Don't forget about FiberGlass & or Carbon Fiber (not that Carbon-fiber is cheap by any means) I do believe the parts that Vertika builds are actually made out of FiberGlass.

Exactly how I feel !!!!

[Dan McNally]

i've been around here for a while now. since day one people have bitched about the heat coming off their spyder, it never ends. as for the 13 models, if you have a heat problem, take it to a COMPETENT dealer and get it fixed.

Please, enlighten us as to what steps the competent dealer should take . . . and, if there is a known solution, why BRP has not shared it with us?

[DrewNJ]

DAVE, I love the nakedness....lose the bags and fenders and paint the gas tank and your set!!

[DrewNJ]

Please, enlighten us as to what steps the competent dealer should take . . . and, if there is a known solution, why BRP has not shared it with us?

This question is going to sound like an ass, but I promise it is not meant that way....
What I'm curious about is why hasn't someone (or a group of you) taken it upon yourselves to make their own machine run right instead of waiting for BRP to take an interest in correcting?
I understand the "blah blah blah, I paid X amount of dollars, it should be right" type of thought, but personally, life is to short. I would want it to be right, even if it cost me a bit to make it right.... Also, you all are kidding yourselves if you think BRP is going to do anything significant retroactive on the 13's they've already sold. They'll change it up for 14'+

Many times, we the consumer, are better at making things BETTER than they came from the factory. MANY improvements that came from the factory started as aftermarket mods people came up with on their own.
Come on all, put your heads together and get it worked out and quit complaining that BRP isn't going to do it for you..... JMHO.....

[3 Wheel Addict]

This question is going to sound like an ass, but I promise it is not meant that way....
What I'm curious about is why hasn't someone (or a group of you) taken it upon yourselves to make their own machine run right instead of waiting for BRP to take an interest in correcting?
I understand the "blah blah blah, I paid X amount of dollars, it should be right" type of thought, but personally, life is to short. I would want it to be right, even if it cost me a bit to make it right.... Also, you all are kidding yourselves if you think BRP is going to do anything significant retroactive on the 13's they've already sold. They'll change it up for 14'+

Many times, we the consumer, are better at making things BETTER than they came from the factory. MANY improvements that came from the factory started as aftermarket mods people came up with on their own.
Come on all, put your heads together and get it worked out and quit complaining that BRP isn't going to do it for you..... JMHO.....

If you read into many many of the threads posted a lot of us have done various things to no avail. I personally thought I had the answer when I replaced the fog lights back with the factory vents, alas this did help but minimally. I have now removed and wrapped the complete exhaust system and that seems to have helped but it is too cold here now to tell for sure? Cuznjohn and Magdave as well as many many others have done lots and spent a fortune to come up with a fix. Maybe BRP is waiting for one of us to give them a solution to THEIR problem???

[Bob Denman]

3...
There's no doubt that it's going to take a multifaceted approcach to put a stop to this problem...
Yours is a part...
MagDave tinkered with heat shielding...
There have been ECMs getting re-flashed also!

The collective efforts will find an answer!

Jer: "That said, a first class, high end, Touring Bike, should not present heat issues for the rider. If it does...then the manufacturer missed the mark."
Thrown a leg over a "Big-Twin" lately in traffic on a hot day...
We're not alone...

[SpyderRx]

No doubt, what you say has merrit, but think about it......... what would that really solve?

You'd be forcing ambient air into the engine compartment only when your moving at higher speeds.
I don't think most of us complain all that much about that issue in particular. (IMHO) The real problem seems to be when we're going slow or in stop & go traffic, & the heat builds up under the tupperware and when the radiator kicks on and causes the right foot to get torched The solution of the air scoop under the mirrors wouldn't really help much in these cases....... would it?
Heat rises, and those vents were placed there in an effort to give the heat another route of escape, instead of being trapped under the tupperware. Many of the posts I've read about the Vertika air-scoops that owners have them installed are not all that glowing of an endorsement and the results seem marginal at best, again at least from what I've read. I've yet to see anyone post that it relieved their problems with the heat.



Don't forget about FiberGlass & or Carbon Fiber (not that Carbon-fiber is cheap by any means) I do believe the parts that Vertika builds are actually made out of FiberGlass.

If this is all true, which I believe it is, then shouldn't we assume that the 2014 ST will still have the same issue since the only major change they made to deal with this is the side air scoops that will only work when traveling at higher speeds and not sitting still? Sounds like they didn't solve the problem with the ST unless I missing something.

[Yfactor]

If this is all true, which I believe it is, then shouldn't we assume that the 2014 ST will still have the same issue since the only major change they made to deal with this is the side air scoops that will only work when traveling at higher speeds and not sitting still? Sounds like they didn't solve the problem with the ST unless I missing something.

When sitting still they also reverse the fan to pull the heated air forward away from the rider.

[DrewNJ]

So, is it just a hot rider situation OR is it truly a motor running hot?


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[CyncySpyder]

If this is all true, which I believe it is, then shouldn't we ass ume that the 2014 ST will still have the same issue since the only major change they made to deal with this is the side air scoops that will only work when traveling at higher speeds and not sitting still? Sounds like they didn't solve the problem with the ST unless I missing something.

You know what they say about assuming....... right Your free to assume anything you'd like

We don't have an ST, never been on one (tho Teddy has) and have no desire to do so, and I try not to write about things I do not know about Maybe someone else that has an ST or experience/knowledge in the subject might chime in to enlighten us all

[Dan McNally]

This question is going to sound like an ass, but I promise it is not meant that way....
What I'm curious about is why hasn't someone (or a group of you) taken it upon yourselves to make their own machine run right instead of waiting for BRP to take an interest in correcting?
I understand the "blah blah blah, I paid X amount of dollars, it should be right" type of thought, but personally, life is to short. I would want it to be right, even if it cost me a bit to make it right.... Also, you all are kidding yourselves if you think BRP is going to do anything significant retroactive on the 13's they've already sold. They'll change it up for 14'+

Many times, we the consumer, are better at making things BETTER than they came from the factory. MANY improvements that came from the factory started as aftermarket mods people came up with on their own.
Come on all, put your heads together and get it worked out and quit complaining that BRP isn't going to do it for you..... JMHO.....

We have been trying to find a solution for a long time . . . nothing seems to work, yet . . .

[DrewNJ]

A solution to what kind of heat problem? Is it just a rider discomfort heat OR is the motor indeed running hot?
There is a big difference. I don't have a 13' and while my 12' gets hot riding in the summer, I am certain it's running the way it should. That I'm hot because I'm sitting on an internal combustion engine that runs about 200 degrees or so and doing this in 100 degree ambient temps.


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[SpyderRx]

When sitting still they also reverse the fan to pull the heated air forward away from the rider.

I thought this was only on the new RT. Is it that way on the ST also? Would be great if it is.

[kman]

We have been trying to find a solution for a long time . . . nothing seems to work, yet . . .

I have mentioned this before in another thread and I will say it again.Pull your sparkplugs and check for a lean running condition.BRP is not going to come right out and say this is the problem because of the EPA.OOps got to get back to work!

[Dan McNally]

A solution to what kind of heat problem? Is it just a rider discomfort heat OR is the motor indeed running hot?
There is a big difference. I don't have a 13' and while my 12' gets hot riding in the summer, I am certain it's running the way it should. That I'm hot because I'm sitting on an internal combustion engine that runs about 200 degrees or so and doing this in 100 degree ambient temps.


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It isn't just discomfort. My master cylinder, brake cable, and charcoal canister all melted. They were replaced and insulated. However, the heat is still there. I can't keep my cell phone in the glove box because it gets too hot . . . one died. What is that intense heat doing to my wiring harness or to the rubber hoses? What kind of gas mileage would I get if my gas didn't boil after a long ride? Obviously better than I get, now. If it was something as simple as discomfort, I'd just velcro neoprene inulated pads to my seat where my legs get burned . . . my concern is the hidden damage going on inside. There needs to be a way to get more air moving through the inside to vent that heat that seems to stay there. There probably isn't a single solution . . . more airflow, wrapped pipes, insulated gas tank, remapping so the engine runs a bit richer . . .

[DrewNJ]

Ok, so if it's a motor running hot concern has anyone actually checked afr to see what is going on? Remember, it's liquid cooled so adding air under the plastic isn't going to do much, if anything, to fix the problem. Air under the plastic will help with rider comfort.
I posted a thread a bit ago about afr on my own machine and it got very little attention. That surprised me with all the heat talk around here. On our pretty heavily modded skis we rely quite a bit on afr and tune accordingly.
Someone NEEDS to do some afr checking on a 13'. If its a fuel map issue and the machine is indeed running hot from being lean its a fairly easy fix.


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[3 Wheel Addict]

My 13 RT/S is not even 2 months old yet and I have some serious heat issues. I'm not talking about heat coming from the radiator area either, I understand that issue and it's a whole nother ball game. I'm talking about such heat under the plastic that the fuel in the tank boils and the gas cap is to hot the handle, I have to put a towel over the front of the seat/plastic area to keep from cooking my nuts and inner thighs. That's what we are all complaining about! There is a issue for some and not others and we can't seem to put a finger on why? I have got in some decent riding lately but it's been cool (50's) and it been nice to just out and cruise around for a couple hundred mile or so. My gas cap is still really hot but the heat coming out of the cracks around the seat is nice right now, i'm worried about the high 90's this summer.

[Huddleston]

Ok, so if it's a motor running hot concern has anyone actually checked afr to see what is going on? Remember, it's liquid cooled so adding air under the plastic isn't going to do much, if anything, to fix the problem. Air under the plastic will help with rider comfort.....

I just returned from a trip 5 1/2 hours each way. It was the first longer trip since I added my Vertika Trykes top vents. Cruising up and down the Interstate at 75 miles per hour for two hours at a time, my heat gauge showed only 3 bars! The area around the glove box was not even warm. Of course when you stop or are slowed down in traffic, the vents do not force air under the hood, and the heat went back up to 4 bars. FYI

[DrewNJ]

I just returned from a trip 5 1/2 hours each way. It was the first longer trip since I added my Vertika Trykes top vents. Cruising up and down the Interstate at 75 miles per hour for two hours at a time, my heat gauge showed only 3 bars! The area around the glove box was not even warm. Of course when you stop or are slowed down in traffic, the vents do not force air under the hood, and the heat went back up to 4 bars. FYI

On my 12' RS I run 3-5 bars. I see 3 bars in the cooler weather on the highway or riding steady. Steady 4 bars this time of year (50-70 degree weather). I will see 5 bars with the fan running during the summer heat going slow or in traffic. I'm hot as well as everything around me. But it's the kind of normal heat I've seen on just about every other motorcycle I've owned.
Vent type mods are personal comfort mods and some of them work very well at keeping the rider more comfortable. Similar to pulling the splash pans and the diverters/block off plates we all do and have done for several years. They keep the heat AWAY from the rider but do very little for motor cooling overall. The heat is still there.

More airflow across the radiator, or a larger radiator, will improve motor cooling MUCH more than airflow across the motor itself. MUCH MORE. Just like opening the hood of your car after driving for any period of time and touching anything under there....Including the hood. It's HOT. But you don't notice it because your sitting in the the cab behind the motor compartment.
Remember, 200 degree water temps for a water cooled motor isn't really that hot. It feels hot to us because our bodies are air cooled. It's accentuated on something like the spyder because it's smaller and you literally sit straddling that hot motor.

Now, EXCESSIVE heat can only be from a few sources. Either the cooling/lubrication system isn't up to the task OR the motor is running to lean creating hot spots that don't cool well by the cooling/lubrication system. Sometimes hot spots can be a motor design issue as well.

We know the cooling system works and the design of the setup is solid because not much has changed in that area since 08'.
So, again IMHO this likely comes back to a tuning area of concern.

[DrewNJ]

I'll go a step further and this might help make some more sense.

We run well over 300hp supercharged motors in our jetskis. Liquid cooled. Those motors sit down in a hull under a seat. There are no direct airflow vents for air flowing over the motors for any type of motor cooling. The only vents are at the rear for the air intake on the motor/supercharger to draw in air for combustion.
Tuned properly we have NO overheating issues and no heat issues around the seat, dash etc etc.

[DrewNJ]

There probably isn't a single solution . . . more airflow, wrapped pipes, insulated gas tank, remapping so the engine runs a bit richer . . .

Agreed! and from what I've been reading you all have wrapped and insulated to what most would consider an extreme! With very little, and sometimes even sketchy results...

Now, Get tuning and put this problem to bed!