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Originally Posted by troop
OK .. For the OP. Go to www.bobistheoilguy.com and search for Rotella T6 5w40 in the motorcycle forums. You will see a big consensus that when used in shared sump applications, that the T6 5w40 shears down quite a bit in viscosity compared to other m/c specific oils (Amsoil/M1/Motul/etc), when used over longer mileage intervals. It is cheap though, and certainly good enough to use..
I looked up this Rotella Oil and all I see as an option is Diesel oil.
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911
Also Rotella has a great rebate until end of Dec.... If anyone has been able to PRINT the rebate form, please share how you accomplished this …. much Thanks …. Mike
I just looked at it. It's online filing only. You have to select from the list of authorized farm retailers and that leaves out Walmart. From my past experience with other kinds of rebates there's no way to submit it other than the prescribed online method.
2014 Copper RTS
Tri-Axis bars, CB, BajaRon sway bar & shock adjusters, SpyderPop's Bumpskid, NBV peg brackets, LED headlights and modulator, Wolo trumpet air horns, trailer hitch, custom trailer harness, high mount turn signals, Custom Dynamics brake light, LED turn signal lights on mirrors, LED strip light for a dash light, garage door opener, LED lights in frunk, trunk, and saddlebags, RAM mounts and cradles for tablet (for GPS) and phone (for music), and Smooth Spyder belt tensioner.
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by troop
OK .. For the OP. Go to www.bobistheoilguy.com and search for Rotella T6 5w40 in the motorcycle forums. You will see a big consensus that when used in shared sump applications, that the T6 5w40 shears down quite a bit in viscosity compared to other m/c specific oils (Amsoil/M1/Motul/etc), when used over longer mileage intervals. It is cheap though, and certainly good enough to use..
Yes I am a fan of the Rotella T-6 it has served me well over the years. ( and it's a real money saver )….. After learning that it Shears sooner than some others, when I change out my oil ( 1330 eng. ) I then began using One Qt. of 20W50 ( Valvoline 4-stroke ) and Four 5W40 T-6 ….. both are full syn…… plus I change at approx. 5000 mi. …… Thanks …. Mike
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Last edited by CopperSpyder; 12-11-2019 at 10:09 AM.
My Spyder
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Originally Posted by acdcking12
I looked up this Rotella Oil and all I see as an option is Diesel oil.
It is, indeed, intended for heavy vehicles. That said, it does meet JASO MA/MA2 specs. Use with no worries..
2022 RT Sea To Sky
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Very Active Member
2022 RT Sea To Sky
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Am I able to use this oil in my Spyder?
Castrol 06113 Power1 4T 5W-40 Synthetic Motorcycle Oil
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2022 RT Sea To Sky
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JASO-MA is for motors with a wet clutch. JASO-MA2 is for wet clutches and catalytic converters.
Rotella T6, being a Diesel engine oil, therefor it has a heavier engine protection additive package as Diesels have a 22:1 compression ratio.
Ours is a red, black and chrome 2017 F3 Limited. Bought new in 2/2019. The avatar is my first bike back in 1952, a Simplex Servi-Cycle. Photo taken at the Barber Museum.
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by RICZ
JASO-MA is for motors with a wet clutch. JASO-MA2 is for wet clutches and catalytic converters.
Rotella T6, being a Diesel engine oil, therefor it has a heavier engine protection additive package as Diesels have a 22:1 compression ratio.
But yet it scores lower in 540rats test program than Mobil 1 motorcycle oil, which his tests in simple terms determines psi until film failure. And as crazy as this may seem, oil quality surpasses a more viscous oil or zinc additives. 540rat is a smart guy and has a well proven test method that is independent of any financial input or sponsorship.
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by PMK
But yet it scores lower in 540rats test program than Mobil 1 motorcycle oil, which his tests in simple terms determines psi until film failure. And as crazy as this may seem, oil quality surpasses a more viscous oil or zinc additives. 540rat is a smart guy and has a well proven test method that is independent of any financial input or sponsorship.
Who is 540rats? He's not an SL member.
2014 Copper RTS
Tri-Axis bars, CB, BajaRon sway bar & shock adjusters, SpyderPop's Bumpskid, NBV peg brackets, LED headlights and modulator, Wolo trumpet air horns, trailer hitch, custom trailer harness, high mount turn signals, Custom Dynamics brake light, LED turn signal lights on mirrors, LED strip light for a dash light, garage door opener, LED lights in frunk, trunk, and saddlebags, RAM mounts and cradles for tablet (for GPS) and phone (for music), and Smooth Spyder belt tensioner.
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by IdahoMtnSpyder
Who is 540rats? He's not an SL member.
He is a blogger with pretty good credentials. Just search 540rats and you'll have a days reading about oil testing.
Lew L
Kaos----- Gone but not forgotten.
2014 RTS in Circuit Yellow, farkle-ing addiction down to once every few months. ECU FLASH IS GREAT.
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by CopperSpyder
Mike, I have looked all over for that form all I could find was 2017, 2018 and one for 1/2019 to 6/2019 after that it is all the on line only rebate form for the rest of 2019. I did see this one for 11/2019 to 12/2019 at O'Reillys https://www.oreillyauto.com/cmsstati...9-12.24.19.pdf check the dates see if that is good for you. I think it is only good at O'Reillys.
Thanks for this … I've reviewed my options and this is how it pans out …. Tractor supply ( which is near me ) is selling the 2.5 gal jug for $43.99, @ 10 qts. = $ 4.44 per ….. so even without the $17.50 re-bate that's a darn good price, the on-line rebate is the problem for me …. I'm computer illiterate , Shell requires you to download to one of 8 possible files ie. JPG ,JPEG, GIF, PDF, PNG, TIF, TIFF, or BMP …. I have No Clue how to do any of that ….. But I can get a Mail-in re-bate form from O'Reilly's that isn't O'Reilly's specific ./…..so maybe this can be done in a round-a-bout way ….. Thanks …. Mike
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by Lew L
He is a blogger with pretty good credentials. Just search 540rats and you'll have a days reading about oil testing.
Lew L
I did find his blog a bit ago. I'm not sure about him, particularly when he won't disclose his testing methods. Not doing that shields them from critical reviews, especially from those who would tend to agree with him. In this life and country no one person can be 100% correct about any subject. A big question that comes to my mind is the affect of smoothness of the surfaces being lubricated. If they are mega super smooth there is no roughness to hold onto and push oil molecules around, so I'm not sure that film strength is the absolute best measure, especially with regard to engine to engine results.
2014 Copper RTS
Tri-Axis bars, CB, BajaRon sway bar & shock adjusters, SpyderPop's Bumpskid, NBV peg brackets, LED headlights and modulator, Wolo trumpet air horns, trailer hitch, custom trailer harness, high mount turn signals, Custom Dynamics brake light, LED turn signal lights on mirrors, LED strip light for a dash light, garage door opener, LED lights in frunk, trunk, and saddlebags, RAM mounts and cradles for tablet (for GPS) and phone (for music), and Smooth Spyder belt tensioner.
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by IdahoMtnSpyder
I did find his blog a bit ago. I'm not sure about him, particularly when he won't disclose his testing methods. Not doing that shields them from critical reviews, especially from those who would tend to agree with him. In this life and country no one person can be 100% correct about any subject. A big question that comes to my mind is the affect of smoothness of the surfaces being lubricated. If they are mega super smooth there is no roughness to hold onto and push oil molecules around, so I'm not sure that film strength is the absolute best measure, especially with regard to engine to engine results.
He may not reveal his actual test apparatus, but explains the test focal point, plus what test methods he does not use. Add to this, his logic of the testing in regards to temps and reaching ultimate failure is important. Going further, he may not give specific details of his equipment, but reading between the lines, his method is the same for each specimen tested, and his knowledge / background leans towards having correct micro inch finished test panels.
A while back, a person here led me to his blog. That person and I were discussing the importance of zinc in oil. I had always been led to believe zinc was critical as a high pressure additive. After reading his blog, what I thought was true for decades, I no longer endorse as correct.
Myself, I see the merits in his blog / test results. In his blog he clearly states many people oppose his testing, but also states that people within the industry, not merely internet gurus, endorse his methods and parameters. Seems those opposing his data have no facts to support their opposition. Merely a speculated reason, but done so without common sense reasoning as to why his tests are not valid. Oil industry professional and oil end product users have validated the test results match real world testing, where as ASTM tests seem less real world.
Also stated is the information is factual data. Repeatable factual data, and sadly, not everyone is open to seeing, reading or wanting to understand facts.
If someone here can suggest a better source of information regarding oil performance, I would enjoy seeing it.
If someone here can explain why his methods are not accurate and fair, I would enjoy that.
At this point, yes, I drink his Kool Aid. 540rat is far smarter than me regarding oil film strength, and testing for it.
Below, I copied sections of his blog and placed them in bold / italics for others to read.
“My testing is a dynamic friction test under load, similar to how an engine dyno test is a dynamic HP/Torque test under load. Both tests show how their subjects truly perform in the real world, no matter what Brand names are involved, no matter what outrageous claims may have been made, and no matter what their spec sheets say.”
”METHODOLOGY
The details of the specific test equipment set-up I developed, as well as the details of the specific test procedure I developed, that provide the accuracy and repeatability that I demand, are Proprietary Intellectual Property. But, I can share the following:
The test methodology or test procedure I use at a representative operating oil temperature of 230*F, is a dynamic rubbing friction test under load, which generates a wear scar on a test specimen that is bathed in the oil being tested. This procedure, which is performed exactly the same for every motor oil tested, provides excellent repeatability, which is critical to validate the methodology. And as shown above, my test data EXACTLY matches real world severe over-heating experience, real world race track experience, real world flat tappet break-in experience, and real world High Performance street experience. No matter what any critics may say, with my test data exactly matching real world experience, that absolutely PROVES and VALIDATES that my data is the real deal. You cannot get any better than that, so you will not find better motor oil comparison data anywhere. The test result is “pounds” of force being applied over the wear scar “area”, which is in square inches (the size of that “area” is of course is determined by the oil’s film strength/load carrying capability/shear resistance capability). So, the result is pounds per square inch, which of course is just shortened to “psi”. The better an oil’s wear protection capability, the smaller the wear scar will be on the test specimen, and the higher the resulting psi value will be. Multiple tests are performed on each oil, and the resulting values are averaged to arrive at the most accurate possible value for comparison. And the motor oils are ranked, based on the average psi value they generated.
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The motor oil “Dynamic Wear Testing Under Load” I performed to generate my “Wear Protection Ranking List”, is worst case torture testing, using oil testing equipment that is for the record, NOT a “One Armed Bandit” tester and NOT a “4-Ball Wear Tester”. My testing subjects the oil to far more severe loading than even the most wicked flat tappet race engine ever could. So, since my oil testing compares various oils under worst case conditions, absolutely no further testing is required in a running engine. If oils rank higher in my “Wear Protection Ranking List” than the oil you currently use, those higher ranked oils will provide a HIGHER LEVEL OF WEAR PROTECTION than your current oil. It’s really that simple.
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My test equipment is NOT intended to duplicate an engine’s internal components. On the contrary, the test equipment is specifically designed to cause an oil to reach its failure point, in order to determine what its capability limit it is. And every oil I test is brought to its failure point, that’s how it works. The difference in the failure points, is what we compare. And in addition to that, my equipment’s calibration is checked and adjusted if required, each time the testing switches to a different oil. That keeps the final results accurate at all times.”
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The rebate check I received was from O’Reilly’s bank in Clinton, IA so I’d be leary about using the form elsewhere.
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In my small city of 12k, I have an O'Reilly's about .5 miles away and a Super Walmart 1 mile away. O'Reilly's cost is $26.99 and Walmart is $20.97. That's damn near the rebate. Ask O'Reilly to price match Walmart ?
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b...and=true&pos=1
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Shell-Rot...-gal/102646780
2022 RT Sea To Sky
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Mobile 1. 10/30 auto oil
Has anyone used mobile 1 10/30 ( regular auto oil ) (not for wet clutches) in their 1330 spyder?? My buddy has used it in his 1330 spyder rt for about 20,000 mi with NO clutch problem
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Active Member
With so many choices in wet clutch compatible oils out there why would you want to take a chance?
2012 RT A&C SE5
2015 Victory Cross Country (Dyno tuned 118hp 116tq)
2006 Triumph Rocket Dyno tuned 140hp 154tq)
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FWIW, the 30 wt is a lower viscosity than the 40 wt BRP states to use.
If your friends clutch survives it is likely from not getting the plates hot. Heat attracts moly. The moly binds to the surface. Moly is more slippery than Teflon.
Seems risky to save $20. Mobil 1 motorcycle oil, 10w40 Sportbike is more expensive, but inexpensive compared to needing clutch plates. The moly is good for everything, except the clutch plates.
So to answer your question, no, I have never run friction modified oils in any of my wet clutch motorcycles.
FWIW, cost vs cost, your buddy could run Shell Rotella T6 in 5w40 for about the same price as Mobil 1 car oil, maybe even less, plus it is wet clutch rated.
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Sarcasm on..
What? No, can't be. Someone using an oil made, marketed, certified for an engine of a different type? And successful? Say it ain't so!
Sarcasm off.
Of course he has had no problems. And probably won't.
Now I will say that there are oils that have a better VI component that won't shear as much in a shared sump engine. And there are oils that have higher doses of phosphorus, zinc, boron, or other wear additives that are may be more suitable for the Spyder engine. But will M1 auto oil do any harm? Nope. Changed regularly, should be fine. M1 has a percentage of PAO, and their Visom basestock, all good stuff. I'd rather see a 40 weight go in, but most Spyders are running around with 30 weight in the sump after a couple thousand miles, and they keep on running. The SN versions of M1 have less phos, zinc, and anti-wear additives than MC oils, but the 1330 is really very "car" like with hydraulic lifters, less valve spring pressure, lower RPM, etc than many other MC engines. It should have about 100 PPM of moly, and many will say NO to that. M1 uses a tri-nuclear moly and even at double that dose would not cause a clutch to slip
I'll even go out on a limb and say his selection of M1 10w30 is a better choice than BRP 5w40. Just keep on riding.
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SpyderLovers Sponsor
There is more to a wet clutch lubricant than just attributes for the wet clutch alone. They also assume that the engine oil is going to be running in the transmission gears as well. Transmission gears are brutal on oil. So, wet clutch lubricants are also designed to withstand this crushing force better than engine only lubricants which do not see this level of service.
Do what you like. It's your ride. But sometimes, cutting corners leaves you just a bit short in the end.
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Mobil 1
My BRP manual says to avoid API Service SM oil, as it will cause the centrifugal clutch to slip. It’s been my experience that API designations are ever increasing. Years ago, I remember SA class oil. Since then, we’re now up to SN, I believe. I was always taught that every new class of oil supercedes those before it. i.e. they are backwards compatible. Truth or fiction? I’d like to run Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40.
~~2010 RS SE5 My first Spidey, but not my first ride~~
The trigger’s been pulled. We have to
get there before the hammer falls.
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SpyderLovers Sponsor
Originally Posted by DaniBoy
My BRP manual says to avoid API Service SM oil, as it will cause the centrifugal clutch to slip. It’s been my experience that API designations are ever increasing. Years ago, I remember SA class oil. Since then, we’re now up to SN, I believe. I was always taught that every new class of oil supercedes those before it. i.e. they are backwards compatible. Truth or fiction? I’d like to run Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40.
Most oils are now SM rated. It's getting hard to find one that is not. The key is the JASO rating. If it is MA2, then you are good to go and you don't have to worry about the SM rating anymore.
Shop Ph: 423-609-7588 (M-F, 8-5, Eastern Time)
Only SLOW people have to leave on time...
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Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie
I've merged your new thread into one of the many existing threads on this subject Daniboy, but please be aware that there's a whole lot of oil info, experience, and discussion on the Forum already that's well worth a read, lots of it about the various types of Mobil 1 - all you hafta do to find it is to type 'Mobil', 'Mobil 1' or even 'Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W/40' into the Search Field up towards the Top Right of the page; check the 'Search Titles Only' box in the drop down list that'll appear once you start typing; then hit the little Magnifying Glass to submit your search! Once you've got the pages of results back, simply read thru the thread titles to pick those that seem to apply most to what you want to know & read on! The Forum's been around for a long time now, so there's a vast amount of accumulated and shared knowledge & experience stored here, if you make the relatively small effort to look first - and there's a very good chance your question has at least been touched upon, if not answered completely at least once before - except if it's a question about oils or tires, it's almost certain to have been asked and answered multiple times already!
We do try to encourage Members starting New Threads to always try to briefly state their question in their thread titles, because it makes searching so much easier for everyone looking for the same info later on; just like Searching and doing a bit of reading on the info that's already here before starting a new thread helps to avoid ending up with multiple threads asking much the same thing & none of them ever quite getting the complete answer! Still, if we all make juuust a little effort up front & do these things, it'll at least help everyone find the answers they want/need as well as making the Forum easier for all to use & navigate in the long run - wins all round!
Just be aware that if you're posting a new question or a variation on the earlier question in an older thread, you might not get the same people responding - thread archeology in itself isn't necessarily a bad thing, especially if it's adding to the knowledge/experience base; but asking someone who last posted on the Forum almost 10 or 15 years ago how/what they did/learnt/liked might not get much in the way of a response! The Membership here does tend to evolve over time.... the numbers of active & contributing Members are steadily growing, sure, but none of us are getting any younger, and those who stop riding or move on to other things tend to contribute less, while the new-comers contribute more - hopefully adding to & expanding on that knowledge/experience base rather than just repeating the same mistakes &/or asking the same questions!
Over to you!
2013 RT Ltd Pearl White
Ryde More, Worry Less!
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