Rear shock info

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Have either thought about the ratchets or either build a spring compressor. Going to do some measuring and will try and replace both springs if I can get them. Will probably be a while before I try this. Might order a new shock and new springs. Got time to think about it and come up with a plan. Can't see $600 for the cheapest aftermarket one. I am (was) a chief mechanic on a drill ship so I like to do stuff like this. Retired so will up date if and when I decide to go this route. Again thanks for all the info.
David

I've worked on the poor OEM suspension system .... but my solutions only involve the front set-up ( shock angle change ) .... doing something like that is not viable for the rear ..... However I got some very good input from a Mtc Shock expert ( He worked with Ohlins ) .... By compressing the springs, you are losing how much they are able to compress because the device takes up space .... If carried it to the extreme you will end up with a Harley Hard Tail - ie. no spring to compress.... The compression device will make the ride harsher .... For what you want, I would look at a better SINGLE Spring. The DOUBLE spring ( with the donut separator ) set-up takes up the space between the coils....... I believe BRP moved away from their own Pre-load device ( which was on earlier Spyders ) because when people used them , they discovered the ride did get stiffer, but the ride also became Harsher ..... There are usually trade-offs ....... I did what BRP did in 2013 , they changed the Angle of the front shock/spring, which kept the nice ride feel but FIRMED it up for the twistie's ..... I just increased the change. I was willing to do a bit of trimming on the plastic to accommodate the angle change ....BRP wasn't willing to do that because it would require them to change the molds for the two plastic parts ..... It was about the money for them ..... Mike

[Warlock]

I've worked on the poor OEM suspension system .... but my solutions only involve the front set-up ( shock angle change ) .... doing something like that is not viable for the rear ..... However I got some very good input from a Mtc Shock expert ( He worked with Ohlins ) .... By compressing the springs, you are losing how much they are able to compress because the device takes up space .... If carried it to the extreme you will end up with a Harley Hard Tail - ie. no spring to compress.... The compression device will make the ride harsher .... For what you want, I would look at a better SINGLE Spring. The DOUBLE spring ( with the donut separator ) set-up takes up the space between the coils....... I believe BRP moved away from their own Pre-load device ( which was on earlier Spyders ) because when people used them , they discovered the ride did get stiffer, but the ride also became Harsher ..... There are usually trade-offs ....... I did what BRP did in 2013 , they changed the Angle of the front shock/spring, which kept the nice ride feel but FIRMED it up for the twistie's ..... I just increased the change. I was willing to do a bit of trimming on the plastic to accommodate the angle change ....BRP wasn't willing to do that because it would require them to change the molds for the two plastic parts ..... It was about the money for them ..... Mike

The brackets up front made all the difference in the world. Now to find a solution for the rear shock. Your brackets fixed the front.
David

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

The brackets up front made all the difference in the world. Now to find a solution for the rear shock. Your brackets fixed the front.
David

I'm glad they are working for you ...... I was confident they would .... How about when you are riding double ????? .... and my comments ,along with Space Tiger should get the rear like you need ..... Mike

[JerryB]

Hi David,

Re: Now to find a solution for the rear shock.

Last year I was noticing that my rear shock was occasionally bottoming out as I would hit a pot-hole, etc. I only ride 1-up & am about 220 lbs.

I just bought a new rear shock, Part #70600411, from the ProCaliber website; about $75. And they are just across the river from me, so no shipping.

I simply did not think the much higher prices for the after-market shocks is worth it.

The shock I got is about 9 3/4" from one end to the other when compressed.

shock.jpg

Unless I find someother parts in bad shape, broken, etc, I will just replace the shock itself. There is a local business in this area that does only motorcycle suspensions. While he has never taken on a Spyder shock, he does think that he can get it apart & reassembled as necessary.

I am of the opinion that a shock, with a load on it, will compress to its shortest length. It will take time but it will happen.

So, if a shock has a load ( weight ) on it ( the weight of the Spyder at the rear ), it will compress all the way. What stops this from happening is the spring. The spring provides the resistance to prevent the shock from compressing completely.

Anyone else have a thought on this?

Jerry Baumchen

[Warlock]

Hi David,

Re: Now to find a solution for the rear shock.

Last year I was noticing that my rear shock was occasionally bottoming out as I would hit a pot-hole, etc. I only ride 1-up & am about 220 lbs.

I just bought a new rear shock, Part #70600411, from the ProCaliber website; about $75. And they are just across the river from me, so no shipping.

I simply did not think the much higher prices for the after-market shocks is worth it.

The shock I got is about 9 3/4" from one end to the other when compressed.

shock.jpg

Unless I find someother parts in bad shape, broken, etc, I will just replace the shock itself. There is a local business in this area that does only motorcycle suspensions. While he has never taken on a Spyder shock, he does think that he can get it apart & reassembled as necessary.

I am of the opinion that a shock, with a load on it, will compress to its shortest length. It will take time but it will happen.

So, if a shock has a load ( weight ) on it ( the weight of the Spyder at the rear ), it will compress all the way. What stops this from happening is the spring. The spring provides the resistance to prevent the shock from compressing completely.

Anyone else have a thought on this?

Jerry Baumchen

I believe once the springs start losing the strength it puts more stress on the shock which causes it to evidently fail. I can push mine down pretty easy while standing beside it. No evidence if any leaks. Thinking about getting a new shock like you bought and maybe adding new 900 lbs spring if I can find one to work.
David

[JerryB]

Hi David,

Re: I believe once the springs start losing the strength it puts more stress on the shock which causes it to evidently fail.

Yup.

Re: adding new 900 lbs spring if I can find one to work.

And I would be up for one of those; let us/me know if/when you find one.

Jerry Baumchen

[Warlock]

Hi David,

Re: I believe once the springs start losing the strength it puts more stress on the shock which causes it to evidently fail.

Yup.

Re: adding new 900 lbs spring if I can find one to work.

And I would be up for one of those; let us/me know if/when you find one.

Jerry Baumchen

Will share all the info here if it works out to the good. Will be a few months before I try this. Might even buy a used one to experiment on.

[spacetiger]

The 2 spring setup works fine. I think BRP changed springs because they found they could get a single spring (but made to be a 2 rate spring) cheaper than staying with 2 springs and the spacer.

I think you will find changing out the shorter (weaker) spring easier than replacing the 2 spring + spacer set up with a single rate spring. If someone would send me the shock, I could disassemble the shock and test the springs to confirm spring rates. That info could help you pick the right rate spring to replace either the short or both springs. Of course, you'd have to pay shipping both ends. My labor and use of test equipment is free.

I know I have read a lots of comments about springs losing their capacity over time, but I have not seen this short of a spring actually breaking. The spring material is good for all OEM manufactures (Chinese bikes aside) so I would be very surprised to see a spring loose a substantial amount of its spring rate. A few % might be lost over 100,000's spring cycles. So, unless you have more than 100K mikes on your spyder, I doubt your oem springs have lost too much of their capacity.

Another reason to consider only changing the shorter spring, the ID of the OEM spring ends are likely to be 2.25" and just short of 2.25; aftermarket springs are a uniform 2.25". I found I had to sand off some of the powder coating on the aftermarket spring to get the 2.25" ID spring to fit inside the top end fitting. The other end should fit nicely on the spacer. If you go with one single rate spring, the ends are not 2.25". When I went with a single spring, I used a 8" coil over sleeve that made setting the preload a breeze.

Jerrycoil over sleeve.jpg4. eibach spring installed.jpg