Spyder having a Heat Stroke

[blambert]

Folks,

I live in the desert southwest i.e. Phoenix metro area and yes I ride my 2011 RS Spyder (with auto tune power commander) as a commuter bike to and from work. However my Spyder does not like the heat. When temps get above 100+ the bike either shuts down or gives me check engine light, DPS / VSS error codes. In addition, the bike revs higher than nomal at idle (can't put in neutral). When I get it home to cool down, she starts right back up (no errors) and when i look for codes there are none. In cooler weather i.e 80-90's no problems, just when it gets outside hot, issues pop up. Relays are seated, oil is full, anti-freeze is up to line, battery connections seem tight. Again issue occurs only when outside temps are above 100+ - any suggestions?

Lambo

[MikeinGA]

Folks,

I live in the desert southwest i.e. Phoenix metro area and yes I ride my 2011 RS Spyder (with auto tune power commander) as a commuter bike to and from work. However my Spyder does not like the heat. When temps get above 100+ the bike either shuts down or gives me check engine light, DPS / VSS error codes. In addition, the bike revs higher than nomal at idle (can't put in neutral). When I get it home to cool down, she starts right back up (no errors) and when i look for codes there are none. In cooler weather i.e 80-90's no problems, just when it gets outside hot, issues pop up. Relays are seated, oil is full, anti-freeze is up to line, battery connections seem tight. Again issue occurs only when outside temps are above 100+ - any suggestions?

Lambo

I had the same problem this summer with the check engine light in the real hot weather here in Ga.
I added air scoops to my 2011 RS-S SE5. Read the threads:
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...ighlight=scoop
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...-SYD3R-aka-Dan

They really work. That's IMHO

Mike

[abowser4u]

Having problems that are more perplexing! Need to talk and not enough room on web sight. Please send me an e-mail.

abowser4u@hotmail.com

Thanks

[coz]

have you guys removed your splash pans from underneath the bike, to let the heat out? it makes a hell of a difference. and it's FREE.

[BajaRon]

Here are a few things I would do. Not guaranteed fixes but on the other hand, can't hurt and may make a world of difference.

1- Use the highest octane fuel you can find. Use Non-Ethanol if you can get it. This helps keep your ECU from retarding ignition timing in hot conditions.
2- Do a Canister-ectomy. You're probably getting a lot of fuel vapor going through the purge valve.
3- Wrap your exhaust pipes with Exhaust Wrap. Keeps the heat In your pipe and sends it out the back.
4- Pull the lower splash pans. This provides a great exit for engine compartment heat.

I'm wondering if the Auto-Tune may be part of the high idle issue. Did it do this before installing the PC?

I've run my 08 GS in 110+ degrees without issues.

[Gray Ghost]

When we rode through the Mojave this summer I found that if the temp on the display was 123 or over, the check engine light would come on. Checking it with BUDS, IIRC, the system gave a high temp at the mass air sensor (P0127??). Once I started it up and got some minimal air flow going the check engine light would go off.

[Bob Denman]

...Move to Flagstaff... it's cooler up in the mountains!

Sorry; I got nuthin' for the problem!

[blambert]

Just ordered the 2014 air scoops from powersportswarehouse.com.

[blambert]

Here are a few things I would do. Not guaranteed fixes but on the other hand, can't hurt and may make a world of difference.

1- Use the highest octane fuel you can find. Use Non-Ethanol if you can get it. This helps keep your ECU from retarding ignition timing in hot conditions.
2- Do a Canister-ectomy. You're probably getting a lot of fuel vapor going through the purge valve.
3- Wrap your exhaust pipes with Exhaust Wrap. Keeps the heat In your pipe and sends it out the back.
4- Pull the lower splash pans. This provides a great exit for engine compartment heat.

I'm wondering if the Auto-Tune may be part of the high idle issue. Did it do this before installing the PC?

I've run my 08 GS in 110+ degrees without issues.

Ron,
how do you do a canister-ectomy.. I do smell a lot of fuel vapors when parking in such high temperatures.

[GrumpySteelMan]

Having problems that are more perplexing! Need to talk and not enough room on web sight. Please send me an e-mail.

abowser4u@hotmail.com

Thanks

No.

[BajaRon]

Ron,
how do you do a canister-ectomy.. I do smell a lot of fuel vapors when parking in such high temperatures.

Personally, I highly recommend it. I believe that at least some, if not several of the Spyder fires are traceable back to this canister. I don't have any inside info on this. Just my gut feeling from 33 years in the fire service and knowing that it is not uncommon to get raw fuel into this canister. These evaporative canisters are not designed to handle raw fuel.

Here is a video removal sequence. http://www.youtube.com/embed/SKujdUHh4iM
The video makes it look harder than it is. It's very easy to do. Once you get into it, use the video as an aid. What needs to be done is pretty obvious.

The only thing I don't like about this video procedure is what they do with the vent hose from the fuel tank. While it is the quick and dirty way to exit the vent hose, it guarantees that any raw fuel getting into the vent hose will drain out under your Spyder (or onto your garage floor). While the amount will most likely be small and the fire hazard also very small, you'll still get the fuel smell. And there is a better way.

Raw fuel in the vent hose is the crux of the original problem and really, the main reason you're getting rid of the Canister. I don't want ANY raw fuel draining anywhere if I can help it. So, I added an extension to the vent hose with a coupler (where he installs a metal fuel filter). You can get plastic or brass. Either will work but I recommend the brass.



Get about 1 ft of the same size fuel line (I think it was 5/16") and run it along the top right frame tube and terminate near the rear fender. You will need to remove some more Tupperware and route the original vent hose back up to where it originates from the fuel tank. It's not that much work and it isn't like you'll be doing it again.

I then added this small lawnmower fuel filter at the exit end of the vent hose. It has stepped ends and will fit both 1/4" and 5/16" fuel line. There are many similar filters. It is not critical which one you use, just that you do use one to both prevent raw fuel from exiting and any contaminants from entering. I doesn't really matter which way you install it since only air will be moving through it, not fuel.

I like that it is clear so I can see if any fuel has accumulated in it. Since it is horizontal, raw fuel, even if it reaches the filter, will slowly evaporate instead of leaking raw fuel out the end.



I have never had raw fuel in this filter and I have never had fuel vapor smells since doing this mod.

Good Luck!

[blambert]

Ron,

Thanks so much for yoru help - tell me why does the raw fuel going into the purge value only at high tempertatures or is it at any time, and how does this affect the RS Spyder operation?

Regards

Lambo

[BajaRon]

Ron,

Thanks so much for yoru help - tell me why does the raw fuel going into the purge value only at high tempertatures or is it at any time, and how does this affect the RS Spyder operation?

Regards

Lambo

Raw fuel can get into the canister which is designed to process fuel vapors only. Raw fuel overwhelms the canister system quickly and renders it pretty much ineffective. The purge valve is designed to open at certain times based on engine RPM, vacuum, etc. This opens the engine intake to the canister, which is supposed to have fuel vapor ONLY trapped within. If the system is working properly, this 'Purges' the canister of these vapors by sucking them into the engine and burning them as fuel.

It is more likely to get raw fuel pushed into the canister in hot weather as the fuel expands more in hot weather. Once you get raw fuel in the canister it has to be replaced. You can't just drain it and be good to go.

If you fill/top off your fuel tank in hot weather and do not immediately ride enough to lower the fuel level in the tank, the fuel will expand with the heat and you'll very likely get raw fuel in your canister.

If raw fuel gets into the canister it tends to off-gas continually giving you the smell of fuel most, if not all of the time. More so when it is hot as you get more vapors off the raw fuel when it is hot.

Theoretically, if you have raw fuel in the canister, especially when it is hot, it is creating a great deal of fuel vapors which, when the purge valve is open, can increase the fuel mix to the rich side. This could be a reason for increased idle, but the overall effect isn't really going to be detrimental.

The main thing is that you don't want raw fuel sitting in your canister. That is not good. If you have a great deal of fuel smell after a ride, this is a good indication that your canister has raw fuel in it. Though there are other possibilities which can also give you this smell.

[MikeinGA]

Here are a few things I would do. Not guaranteed fixes but on the other hand, can't hurt and may make a world of difference.

1- Use the highest octane fuel you can find. Use Non-Ethanol if you can get it. This helps keep your ECU from retarding ignition timing in hot conditions.
2- Do a Canister-ectomy. You're probably getting a lot of fuel vapor going through the purge valve.
3- Wrap your exhaust pipes with Exhaust Wrap. Keeps the heat In your pipe and sends it out the back.
4- Pull the lower splash pans. This provides a great exit for engine compartment heat.

I'm wondering if the Auto-Tune may be part of the high idle issue. Did it do this before installing the PC?

I've run my 08 GS in 110+ degrees without issues.

When the gas starts to boil it can somewhat pressurize the canister at idle and when the key is shut off, the canister will dump the gas into the engine or on the ground. The canister is made in such a way that if it gets liquid fuel in the bottom of the tank the gas vapor is trapped due to liquid fuel does not let the gas vapor go to the dump side of the tank. When the charcoal canister stops working things happen, like heavy gas fume spell and sometimes fire. When I worked on cars for a living the charcoal canisters were located higher that the gas tank in a cooler place. There were no problems with the system. That's IMHO.

Mike

[oldgoat]

Just ordered the 2014 air scoops from powersportswarehouse.com.

I looked at the parts diagrams in 2014 RS & got lost.

Could you please direct me to the scoops you bought?

Thanks

oldgoat

[blambert]

1 of 219800345 - Can-Am - KIT PANNEAU GA BLANC*WHITE LH PANNEL KIT @$250.49ea.

1 of 219800346 - Can-Am - KIT PANNEAU DR BLANC*WHITE RH PANNEL KIT @$250.49ea.

Subtotal: $500.98
Shipping: $17.43 via UPS Ground
Estimated Delivery: 9/8/14 - 9/9/14
Sales Tax: $0.00
Total Amt: $518.41

www.powersportswarehouse.com
329 By pass 123
Seneca, SC 29678
864-888-8123

[oldgoat]

Thank you

[blambert]

So I performed the following on my 2011 RS Spyder and something resolved the shutting down problem.

1. Did a Canscopy, purge line is blocked and gas vent line has fuel filter installed at the end
2. Reset all of the relays in the front fuse box. I have also ordered ( from 2wheels.com) two 30 amp main 1 & 2 relays for installation
3. Drilled 2 inch circular holes in the bottom of both splash pans
4. Installed new air scoop side panels
5. Tighten battery connections on the main battery posts and frame ground points
6. checked vacuum lines on the carb, all looks good no cracking.

So now I don't have shut down going ( check engine, DPS etc.. failures any longer and the heat is still on in Phoenix - rode home from work on Friday in 104 degree temps (Ahh! Fall weather to us here in the desert).

So not sure what actually solved the problem but I now have more confidence riding since the problem was pretty consistent and I haven't had the problem in the last few days of riding. Hope it isn't a loose wire connection on the back of the front fuse box.

I will keep you posted.

Regards,

Bob Lambert

[Bob Denman]

Glad to hear that both you, AND your Spyder; are happy!