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Originally Posted by Lamonster
You might have been able to shim it back to spec and saved some bucks what what fun would that be?
I had a clutch that was shimmed wrong but it didn't have any effect on my mileage that I know of. It did have an effect on some of my parts. It's all good now. I'm glad to see you stuck it out in finding the issue. Not too many folks here get their hands dirty that deep into the Spyder.
Not enough clearance
Might I inquire as to what the symptoms were, how you realized it was your clutch. Any unusual sounds, etc. Which way was the clutch shimmed wrong? Too much, or too little. Thanks for your replies.
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Originally Posted by DLE
When I roll on the throttle at higher RPMs, the engine revs and the Spyder catches up after a couple of seconds. Assuming I may need a new clutch plates, is anyone aware of after market clutches for the se5?
BRP has known about the weak/slipping clutch since 2009, and put a new clutch in all Spyders since 2011. I bought my 2009 Spyder brand new and they replaced/upgraded a clutch under warranty, it was never a Recall but a well-known issue. Sunshine riders who never open the throttle will never even notice before their clutch slowly and surely smoke itself off - when the warranty is gone.
Last edited by Peter Aawen; 04-23-2024 at 10:58 PM.
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SpyderLovers Founder
Originally Posted by DLE
Might I inquire as to what the symptoms were, how you realized it was your clutch. Any unusual sounds, etc. Which way was the clutch shimmed wrong? Too much, or too little. Thanks for your replies.
There was no clearance when I checked and I was getting a chatter. After new parts and shimmed properly it was fine.
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Easy way how to find out state of your clutch.
If it is 2010 or older - it needs a new clutch!
Test: bring it at 6000 rpm in 5th gear and fully open, if it reacts and accelerates, your clutch is still fine but will get there eventually. If engine revs up but no or delayed acceleration - it's a clutch time Pal.
Last edited by Peter Aawen; 04-23-2024 at 10:59 PM.
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Originally Posted by Lamonster
There was no clearance when I checked and I was getting a chatter. After new parts and shimmed properly it was fine.
Reason I ask, is now when I put it in 1st or reverse, the clutch grabs and at an idle will try to move the machine if it is on the level. Really not a problem, just don't have to have the rpm's up to approximately 2400 for it to engage. Slight brake pressure holds it just fine.
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SpyderLovers Founder
Originally Posted by DLE
Reason I ask, is now when I put it in 1st or reverse, the clutch grabs and at an idle will try to move the machine if it is on the level. Really not a problem, just don't have to have the rpm's up to approximately 2400 for it to engage. Slight brake pressure holds it just fine.
Mine was the same way and it did get better with time.
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Originally Posted by DLE
Reason I ask, is now when I put it in 1st or reverse, the clutch grabs and at an idle will try to move the machine if it is on the level. Really not a problem, just don't have to have the rpm's up to approximately 2400 for it to engage. Slight brake pressure holds it just fine.
Assuming you have an SE what you're describing sounds like it's creeping at idle right?
The centrifugal clutch is engaging too early. Not the same kind of problem being described here.
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Originally Posted by Sny
Assuming you have an SE what you're describing sounds like it's creeping at idle right?
The centrifugal clutch is engaging too early. Not the same kind of problem being described here.
After putting in the new clutch kit with the extra two plates plus a thicker steel driven plate, and a new disk spring, I assume it just tightened things up a little, made the clutch somewhat more responsive.
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Originally Posted by DragonLorD
Easy way how to find out state of your clutch.
If it is 2010 or older - it needs a new clutch.
Test: bring it at 6000 rpm in 5th gear and fully open, if it reacts and accelerates, your clutch is still fine but will get there eventually. If engine revs up but no or delayed acceleration - it's a clutch time Pal.
Thats when I noticed it. Either when I would hit resume on my cruise control or when I would pull out to pass another vehicle and roll the thottle wide open. The RPM's would jump but the Machine would then slowly catch up with the engine.
Last edited by Peter Aawen; 04-23-2024 at 11:00 PM.
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Originally Posted by Lamonster
What does the new oil nozzle do? Is it already in my 2012 RT?
Last edited by Peter Aawen; 04-23-2024 at 11:00 PM.
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Originally Posted by rcturner
What does the new oil nozzle do? Is it already in my 2012 RT?
You have one. It sprays the clutch plates with oil constantly. The Rotax is a dry sump engine, so the clutch plates can't run in an oil bath in the sump to stay wet, they have to be fed with oil constantly. A jet feed of oil is better than old-fashioned splash lube anyway, as it has a controlled volume and less friction.
Last edited by Peter Aawen; 04-23-2024 at 11:01 PM.
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by NancysToy
You have one. It sprays the clutch plates with oil constantly. The Rotax is a dry sump engine, so the clutch plates can't run in an oil bath in the sump to stay wet, they have to be fed with oil constantly. A jet feed of oil is better than old-fashioned splash lube anyway, as it has a controlled volume and less friction.
Scotty, do you know what years and what models have this feature? And what happens to everyone else??.......... Mike
And I'm guessing this feature only effects the SE trans?
Last edited by Peter Aawen; 04-23-2024 at 11:02 PM.
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Mike,
Everything has it, or the clutches wouldn't work. It is what makes the "wet clutch" wet.
Last edited by Peter Aawen; 04-23-2024 at 11:03 PM.
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Originally Posted by NancysToy
You have one. It sprays the clutch plates with oil constantly. The Rotax is a dry sump engine, so the clutch plates can't run in an oil bath in the sump to stay wet, they have to be fed with oil constantly. A jet feed of oil is better than old-fashioned splash lube anyway, as it has a controlled volume and less friction.
Good information.
Thanks
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by NancysToy
Everything has it, or the clutches wouldn't work. It is what makes the "wet clutch" wet.
Since they are talking about a NEW oil nozzle; Do we all need one? Thanks
Last edited by Peter Aawen; 04-23-2024 at 11:04 PM.
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Mike,
I suspect it is not that critical, but for those that have experienced clutch problems, it should help prevent recurrence. More oil means a cooler clutch, and less likelihood of burning or warping the plates or discs.
Last edited by Peter Aawen; 04-23-2024 at 11:04 PM.
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There is quite a bit of difference in the new and old nozzles. The old nozzle is very short, whereas the new nozzle looks somewhat like the needles that are used to air up a ball. It is considerably longer. I will post a picture of it when I figure out how to attach it.
Last edited by Peter Aawen; 04-23-2024 at 11:05 PM.
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Originally Posted by DLE
There is quite a bit of difference in the new and old nozzles. The old nozzle is very short, whereas the new nozzle looks somewhat like the needles that are used to air up a ball. It is is considerably longer. I will post a picture of it when I figure out how to attach it.
Thanks for the info. In that case I suspect that there was also an improvement in the oil spray placement, getting it closer to the center of the clutch pack. I wonder if the nozzle is available separately?
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Doru the Destroyer-Spyder Photo Investigator
Originally Posted by NancysToy
I suspect it is not that critical, but for those that have experienced clutch problems, it should help prevent recurrence.
I thought that I was the only one with clutch problems ('course, "because of the turbo").
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SpyderLovers Founder
Originally Posted by DLE
There is quite a bit of difference in the new and old nozzles. The old nozzle is very short, whereas the new nozzle looks somewhat like the needles that are used to air up a ball. It is is considerably longer. I will post a picture of it when I figure out how to attach it.
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Doru the Destroyer-Spyder Photo Investigator
Originally Posted by Lamonster
Thinner friction, thicker steel plates. Any changes in the springs (weight, height)?
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Originally Posted by docdoru
Thinner friction, thicker steel plates. Any changes in the springs (weight, height)?
The only spring involved with this kit was the spring disc. The pressure plate and clutch drum assembly were not involved, so did not remove them, as my discs had just started slipping and were not burned. Shop mechanic as well as myself could not detect any burnt smell or color in the oil. Also no reason to take the the pressure retaining valve apart, since the oil had just been changed and the air nozzle would have no reason to be clogged or dirty. So the compression spring did not come into play, and was not part of the kit.
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Originally Posted by docdoru
Thinner friction, thicker steel plates. Any changes in the springs (weight, height)?
These are some photos showing the difference in the steel driven plate, the offset faces the disc pack, very important to soak the plates in oil for 1/2 hour prior to installing. The clutch pack compression device is used to compress the disc pack to enable an accurate measurement from the top of the friction plate to the top of the clutch hub.
Also a photo measuring the the top of the spring disk to the machine surface on the pressure plate. Last photo is the old and new oil nozzle. IMG_0758
IMG_0759
IMG_0756
IMG_0760
IMG_0764
IMG_0770
IMG_0766
IMG_0768
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Originally Posted by DLE
These are some photos showing the difference in the steel driven plate, the offset faces the disc pack, very important to soak the plates in oil for 1/2 hour prior to installing. The clutch pack compression device is used to compress the disc pack to enable an accurate measurement from the top of the friction plate to the top of the clutch hub.
Also a photo measuring the the top of the spring disk to the machine surface on the pressure plate. Last photo is the old and new oil nozzle. IMG_0758
IMG_0759
IMG_0756
IMG_0760
IMG_0764
IMG_0770
IMG_0766
IMG_0768
Can you please repost? The images didn't show. Thank you.
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by DLE
There is quite a bit of difference in the new and old nozzles. The old nozzle is very short, whereas the new nozzle looks somewhat like the needles that are used to air up a ball. It is is considerably longer. I will post a picture of it when I figure out how to attach it.
This all very helpful and I thank you for sharing. Is the new oil nozzle available as a separate part, and if so, do you know the #? And should all the SE trans be retro fitted with this nozzle or just certain years and models? Thanks, Mike
Last edited by Peter Aawen; 04-23-2024 at 11:07 PM.
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