ethanol ................

[pellcitypete]

Here in Alabama Hover a suburb of ( Birmingham) uses E-85 ethanol only in there police cars they have more power but less mpg's don't know of any drawbacks but MPG's just my 2 cents

[sinkhole]

I wouldn't know what to do if I saw a station selling gas that didn't have corn juice in it.

Your Spyder would... get better gas milage.

[FrankPa]

We're one of the first civilizations to burn their food (corn) as fuel... not the smartest of strategies!

[NancysToy]

We're one of the first civilizations to burn their food (corn) as fuel... not the smartest of strategies!

Especially not in a year when over half the nation is in drought, and the food will be in short supply.

[BajaRon]

Here in Alabama Hover a suburb of ( Birmingham) uses E-85 ethanol only in there police cars they have more power but less mpg's don't know of any drawbacks but MPG's just my 2 cents

1- Upsizing your fuel delivery system to allow for the higher volumetric flow rate required to run Ethanol or E85 for the same power level (compared to gasoline).

This is step 1 for converting from a Gasoline to E-85 conversion 'How To' website. It's like switching your furnace or water heater from Propane to Natural Gas.

Both E-85 and Natural gas have less energy available so to get the same amount of work done you have to increase the fuel flow. Of course you can increase the fuel flow even more (as long as air flow is also increased) to get more HP from these lesser fuels. But you can do the same with gasoline.

And the truth is, it takes more oil based fuels to make ethanol than it would to make the same volume of gasoline and you'd go farther on it. That is why gasoline is cheaper than ethanol fuels.

Oh, you say, but I have to pay more for 100% gasoline than I do for Ethanol fuel. That, my friend, is because the government subsidizes Ethanol fuels. The gas station is getting tax money for every gallon of Ethanol fuel they sell whereas they don't get a dime of tax money for 100% gasoline fuels. This keeps the pump price of Ethanol fuel lower that 100% gasoline. The total price for ethanol fuels is higher, you just don't see the full price tag.

I wonder where all those subsidy dollars are coming from? Probably the 'Occupy Wall Street' people, don't you think?

Amazing logic isn't it! And now they are running your health care!

[FrankPa]

Great minds think alike!

[pellcitypete]

1- Upsizing your fuel delivery system to allow for the higher volumetric flow rate required to run Ethanol or E85 for the same power level (compared to gasoline).

This is step 1 for converting from a Gasoline to E-85 conversion 'How To' website. It's like switching your furnace or water heater from Propane to Natural Gas.

Both E-85 and Natural gas have less energy available so to get the same amount of work done you have to increase the fuel flow. Of course you can increase the fuel flow even more (as long as air flow is also increased) to get more HP from these lesser fuels. But you can do the same with gasoline.

And the truth is, it takes more oil based fuels to make ethanol than it would to make the same volume of gasoline and you'd go farther on it. That is why gasoline is cheaper than ethanol fuels.

Oh, you say, but I have to pay more for 100% gasoline than I do for Ethanol fuel. That, my friend, is because the government subsidizes Ethanol fuels. The gas station is getting tax money for every gallon of Ethanol fuel they sell whereas they don't get a dime of tax money for 100% gasoline fuels. This keeps the pump price of Ethanol fuel lower that 100% gasoline. The total price for ethanol fuels is higher, you just don't see the full price tag.

I wonder where all those subsidy dollars are coming from? Probably the 'Occupy Wall Street' people, don't you think?

Amazing logic isn't it! And now they are running your health care!

I'm confused by your logic if what you say is true then why is E-85 only about $.75 a gallon in Brazil

[boborgera]

I'm confused by your logic if what you say is true then why is E-85 only about $.75 a gallon in Brazil

Its made mostly from Sugar Cane, It grows like weeds over there, And all year!!

[Huntindawg1962]

I'm confused by your logic if what you say is true then why is E-85 only about $.75 a gallon in Brazil

Per gallon or per litre? Not sure how old your info is - Found this info on Brazil which makes it sound like even they prefer gas to mixed or ethanol and the prices have rolled the other way.

----

Production struggles created many challenges, including higher prices and lower sales. At gas stations, the price of hydrated ethanol skyrocketed, increasing 40 percent in 2011. Anhydrous ethanol, which is mixed with gasoline in flex fuel, tripled in price during the same period. From April 2010 to February 2011, hydrated ethanol sales at gas stations fell 31.6 percent over the same period the previous year. Facing supply woes, the government reduced the percentage of ethanol content in flex gasoline from 25 to 20 percent beginning in October 2011. It no longer became economical to buy ethanol instead of gas. Ticket, which performs consumer research, found it was only cost-effective to buy ethanol over gasoline in one out of 26 Brazilian states in February, and found that in most states the trend remained the same throughout 2011.

[MouthPiece]

Don't get me started about ethanol.

Chris

[BajaRon]

I'm confused by your logic if what you say is true then why is E-85 only about $.75 a gallon in Brazil

I wish it were just my logic. Tragically, it's the facts, though my explanation may be lacking. You have to look beyond the news media and price at the pump. Why is Brazil ethanol so cheap? Read this article from the end of February, 2012.

Brazil sets up $38 billion ethanol subsidy program to stimulate ...

Brazil is using the same smoke and mirror approach that we have here in the USA. If ethanol is really such a great deal, why do we have to subsidize it?

For example, Amsoil. It is more expensive than regular oil, but people willingly pay more for it because they see the obvious advantages. No government subsidies, no government mandates, no coercion to buy the product, just market driven 'Free Enterprise'.

Bottom line is that Ethanol is a bad deal. The only ones that are benefiting are the farmers (and I suspect, politicians). I'm not against farmers doing well. I just don't like it when anyone benefits by producing an inferior product that costs more money. This is another 'Government Knows Best' venture.

This is how the Russians ended up with just one choice for a car and it was a very expensive piece of junk.

Here are some of the issues with Ethanol. Just the oposite of these is true for 100% gasoilne.

1- Readily absorbs moisture which degrades energy available - damage to internal parts lowering engine efficiency and mileage.
2- Repair estimates in the Billions of dollars for damage done by Ethanol fuels
3- Higher production costs leading to higher product costs (offset at the pump by government subsidies)
4- Higher oil usage to plant, fertilize, harvest, transport, refine and deliver than for the same volume of gasoline
5- Average 10% reduction in fuel mileage requiring 10% more fuel to go the same distance as pure gasoline
6- Though exhaust emissions from Ethanol are somewhat reduced as compared to gasoline, when all emissions from manufacturing are considered, total emissions into the atmosphere are higher with ethanol fuels.
7- We are now burning our food when better alternatives (like gasoline) are available.
8- Higher taxes

If people were given the choice to choose which fuel they wanted (without you and I subsidizing ethanol fuel with our tax dollars) which fuel do you think would go away very quickly?

As you can see, I am completely neutral on the subject!

[pellcitypete]

I wish it were just my logic. Tragically, it's the facts, though my explanation may be lacking. You have to look beyond the news media and price at the pump. Why is Brazil ethanol so cheap? Read this article from the end of February, 2012.

Brazil sets up $38 billion ethanol subsidy program to stimulate ...

Brazil is using the same smoke and mirror approach that we have here in the USA. If ethanol is really such a great deal, why do we have to subsidize it?

For example, Amsoil. It is more expensive than regular oil, but people willingly pay more for it because they see the obvious advantages. No government subsidies, no government mandates, no coercion to buy the product, market driven 'Free Enterprise'.

Bottom line is that Ethanol is a bad deal. The only ones that are benefiting are the farmers (and I suspect, politicians). I'm not against farmers doing well. I just don't like it when anyone benefits by producing an inferior product that costs more money. This is another 'Government Knows Best' venture.

This is how the Russians ended up with just one choice for a car and it was a very expensive piece of junk.

Here are some of the issues with Ethanol. Just the oposite of these is true for 100% gasoilne.

1- Readily absorbs moisture which degrades energy available - damage to internal parts lowering engine efficiency and mileage.
2- Repair estimates in the Billions of dollars for damage done by Ethanol fuels
3- Higher production costs leading to higher product costs (offset at the pump by government subsidies)
4- Higher oil usage to plant, fertilize, harvest, transport, refine and deliver than for the same volume of gasoline
5- Average 10% reduction in fuel mileage requiring 10% more fuel to go the same distance as pure gasoline
6- Though exhaust emissions from Ethanol are somewhat reduced as compared to gasoline, when all emissions from manufacturing are considered, total emissions into the atmosphere are higher with ethanol fuels.
7- We are now burning our food when better alternatives (like gasoline) are available.
8- Higher taxes

If people were given the choice to choose which fuel they wanted (without you and I subsidizing ethanol fuel with our tax dollars) which fuel do you think would go away very quickly?

As you can see, I am completely neutral on the subject!

Thanks I stand corrected .75 was the last price i heard now I know the truth

[BajaRon]

Thanks I stand corrected .75 was the last price i heard now I know the truth

I don't know a lot about a lot... But I do know a bit about ethanol. Seriously, I believe that if Americans were told the truth about it, we would not be using ethanol fuels. Just my opinion, of course.

[pellcitypete]

1- Upsizing your fuel delivery system to allow for the higher volumetric flow rate required to run Ethanol or E85 for the same power level (compared to gasoline).

This is step 1 for converting from a Gasoline to E-85 conversion 'How To' website. It's like switching your furnace or water heater from Propane to Natural Gas.

Both E-85 and Natural gas have less energy available so to get the same amount of work done you have to increase the fuel flow. Of course you can increase the fuel flow even more (as long as air flow is also increased) to get more HP from these lesser fuels. But you can do the same with gasoline.

And the truth is, it takes more oil based fuels to make ethanol than it would to make the same volume of gasoline and you'd go farther on it. That is why gasoline is cheaper than ethanol fuels.

Oh, you say, but I have to pay more for 100% gasoline than I do for Ethanol fuel. That, my friend, is because the government subsidizes Ethanol fuels. The gas station is getting tax money for every gallon of Ethanol fuel they sell whereas they don't get a dime of tax money for 100% gasoline fuels. This keeps the pump price of Ethanol fuel lower that 100% gasoline. The total price for ethanol fuels is higher, you just don't see the full price tag.

I wonder where all those subsidy dollars are coming from? Probably the 'Occupy Wall Street' people, don't you think?

Amazing logic isn't it! And now they are running your health care!

Thanks for the info I now stand corrected my facts where obviously out dated! I thought I had posted earlier but I see it didn't post. I wasn't trying to start a up roar just had outdated facts.

[BajaRon]

Thanks for the info I now stand corrected my facts where obviously out dated! I thought I had posted earlier but I see it didn't post. I wasn't trying to start a up roar just had outdated facts.

It's all good. Didn't take it that way. I made statements that no one is obligated to agree with. You asked for verification (which is just fine with me) and I tried to give it.

Everyone comes away from a discussion with their own conclusions and I wouldn't have it any other way. The main thing is that everyone feels free to throw in their 2 cents.

[Huntindawg1962]

on a related note:

With the lack of rain here in the midwest, they are saying that the cost of ethanol will rise and expect the price of blended gas to go up $.15

GREAT

I got a better idea - lets just take it out, then like already available at some pumps, the price only goes up $.05, milage goes up 10%, and lots of other problems go away altogether! And, the farmers can use the corn for feeding the cattle.

A win-win-win