carry a pistol?

[shelbydave]

And I never said "nobody, not even the most violent scumbags, deserve to be shot". What I said that no amount of my material possessions are worth killing someone over.

I take it that includes your life, or the life of your loved ones? Not trying to judge here, but the people I know who DO carry, it's for protection for themselves, and families. Not their "stuff". Anybody carrying just to protect their belongings is doing it for the wrong reasons.

[spyderrock]

I agree with the above statement...As a Canadian we do not carry anything well most of us. I am a short stocky guy, a little over weight covered in Tattoos and maybe this is why I just rode 8500km and know one gave me any trouble. I can take care of myself quite well was a power lifter for years and have (self defense) training but I wont divulge that here lol. Why cant we all just get along and have a waffle and a bit of Maple syrup in Canada thats what we do eat, hey you want to rob me lets sit down and have a waffle. Im a good listener and very aware of my surroundings. I also have worked quite a lot down in Texas for a large oilfield company and man those guys down there love their guns. One guy because he really hated snakes lol the kind that can bite and kill you in seconds. I read all the posts on this thread and wow some varied opinions for sure. Again come to Canada lets sit down and have a waffle dont worry there is a lot of Maple syrup to go around.

[Dudley]

If I may sum up some of this discussion. In the end, you make your own choice about whether or not to carry. The laws are so screwed up now about carry/don't carry, you are more likely to end up in jail with a felony charge than get hurt because you didn't have a gun to protect you. So, if you do get jailed and charged if you are stopped and one of the hidden laws says you are committing a felon, you have no one but yourself to blame. End of my summary.

[Firefly]

I take it that includes your life, or the life of your loved ones? Not trying to judge here, but the people I know who DO carry, it's for protection for themselves, and families. Not their "stuff". Anybody carrying just to protect their belongings is doing it for the wrong reasons.

As I've clearly stated-- if someone wants my Spyder or my money--- take it.. best defense tool you can carry with you is your BRAIN. Give them what they want and that's gonna take care of things 99% of the time. Most situations that we are talking about come to the bad guy wanting MONEY or your car or bike. The smart move is to give it to them.

If you're asking will I just lie down and be killed or allow my family to be killed - the answer would be no. I would do whatever I could to avoid such an unfortunate end. Would I kill if I had no other choice---- probably--- but I'm not going to carry a gun as the likelihood of such an event is just far too minimal to worry about. I just don't live in such fear.

[Bob Denman]

No-- it didn't hold up.... The city added a clause exempting conscientious objectors, criminals, the mentally disabled and people who could not afford a gun.

So the law requiring EVERYONE to have a gun is NOT in effect... there are exemptions. They knew darn well if they didn't add exemptions--- the whole law would be struck down....

They didn't add it; it was already in there...
Putting it another way; Keenesaw , Georgia wanted to make a statement about Morton Grove's handgun law... and they did!
But they did it in a way that didn't infringe upon anybody's rights!

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

This movie was panned by most critics but it one of my favorites " A BRONX TALE " 1993...It stars De niro and Chazz Palmenteri.....The best scene is about 1/3 in and starts with Chazz ( local Mob Boss ) watching a buch of "Hell's angel's biker's " type ride by his bar.....Which they then enter.....he's a gentlemen, their not....then the fun begins.....it's priceless......This would never have happened if they were riding Spyders./. Mike

[steve635]

"What I said that no amount of my material possessions are worth killing someone over."


So if someone could take literally everything you own, money, home, clothing, food, for no reason other than to enrich himself, and leave you a hungry, beggar (in this economy), you'd rather submit than shoot? I realize the situation is a ridiculous scenario, but you did give an absolute (despite seeing in grey) no amount of my material possessions was worth killing over.
This reminds me of the story where the guy asks a beautiful woman if she'll have sex for a million dollars, she says "sure" so he says "OK, how about for a dollar?", she responds "What kind of girl do you think I am?" and he replies "We've already established that, just haggling over price!".

[MikeinGA]

And yet none of these things happened to YOU... which is my entire point. The things you mentioned above didn't happen to you.. no matter if they happened next door to you-- it still was not you.... so you still don't get counted on that side of the statistics..... and that's what I'm saying. With violent crime continuing to drop over the last 60 years... we have far less to worry about.

I just don't live my life in fear... never have... never will. I don't ride in fear of death... and I don't travel like it either. If I die tomorrow-- so be it--- I've had a great life so far. Not that I want to die tomorrow-- but it's just really not something I fear.

And I never said "nobody, not even the most violent scumbags, deserve to be shot". What I said that no amount of my material possessions are worth killing someone over.

When a real bad guy comes to your door to take everything, he will take your life. Because the dead never talk. That's IMHO.

Mike

[Bob Denman]

[QUOTE=steve635;482291]"What I said that no amount of my material possessions are worth killing someone over."


So if someone could take literally everything you own, money, home, clothing, food, for no reason other than to enrich himself, and leave you a hungry, beggar (in this economy), you'd rather submit than shoot? I realize the situation is a ridiculous scenario, but you did give an absolute (despite seeing in grey) no amount of my material possessions was worth killing over.
This reminds me of the story where the guy asks a beautiful woman if she'll have sex for a million dollars, she says "sure" so he says "OK, how about for a dollar?", she responds "What kind of girl do you think I am?" and he replies "We've already established that, just haggling over price!".[/QUOTE]

Steve, I'm starting to like you more and more...

[shelbydave]

As I've clearly stated-- if someone wants my Spyder or my money--- take it.. best defense tool you can carry with you is your BRAIN. Give them what they want and that's gonna take care of things 99% of the time. Most situations that we are talking about come to the bad guy wanting MONEY or your car or bike. The smart move is to give it to them.

If you're asking will I just lie down and be killed or allow my family to be killed - the answer would be no. I would do whatever I could to avoid such an unfortunate end. Would I kill if I had no other choice---- probably--- but I'm not going to carry a gun as the likelihood of such an event is just far too minimal to worry about. I just don't live in such fear.

I totally understand... I wouldn't carry either if I owned one - unless I was hungwy for wabbit...

For those who DO carry... Don't put it down by your right foot!!! If the heat can melt glue on your boots, who knows what it would do to your ammo..

[Firefly]

They didn't add it; it was already in there...
Putting it another way; Keenesaw , Georgia wanted to make a statement about Morton Grove's handgun law... and they did!
But they did it in a way that didn't infringe upon anybody's rights!

No Bob.. it wasn't there-- they ADDED it... hence the statement "They ADDED A CLAUSE"

The American Civil Liberties Union challenged Kennesaw’s law as unconstitutional, but the federal court let it stand, although the city did add a clause exempting conscientious objectors, criminals, the mentally disabled and people who could not afford a gun.

[Luckyme]

I have 2 permits one from Indiana and the other from Utah.(required training course for acceptance)
I know my rights.
I know my responsibility.
I know I'm trained.
I know I never, ever want to be in a situation where I'm forced to protect me or my family, but I'm not a black belt so I best be a good shot.
I know also that I might have to protect "YOU"
I know I can, I know I will,
I'll stand with you!

What a fine way to put it in 8 simple statements...and thanks!

[Firefly]

[QUOTE=Bob Denman;482300]

"What I said that no amount of my material possessions are worth killing someone over."


So if someone could take literally everything you own, money, home, clothing, food, for no reason other than to enrich himself, and leave you a hungry, beggar (in this economy), you'd rather submit than shoot? I realize the situation is a ridiculous scenario, but you did give an absolute (despite seeing in grey) no amount of my material possessions was worth killing over.
This reminds me of the story where the guy asks a beautiful woman if she'll have sex for a million dollars, she says "sure" so he says "OK, how about for a dollar?", she responds "What kind of girl do you think I am?" and he replies "We've already established that, just haggling over price!".[/QUOTE]

Steve, I'm starting to like you more and more...

Okay Cap'n StrawMan........ lol

I have a little thing called INSURANCE for all of my worldly goods...... so I don't see them as really being lost--- but even without insurance----I don't see all the stuff I own as being worth the life of a human being... I just don't. And if I was left a hungry beggar.... I would rebuild my life and wealth to a sustainable level..... Or maybe I'd just go get a gun and come steal all yer stuff......

[Firefly]

When a real bad guy comes to your door to take everything, he will take your life. Because the dead never talk. That's IMHO.

Mike

We weren't talking about someone coming to my door now were we?

Castle law is a totally different subject than carrying all around the US like the wild wild west....

It's amazing to me that people really live in such fear.... geesh-- do you guys all check your toothpaste for poison every morning?

I leave my house unlocked... keys in my cars and bike..... I just don't live in such fear.....

[Arr MiHardies]

Firefly - Malcolm Reynolds: "Don't you stand for that. If someone tries to kill you, you got every right to kill them back."

I don't think the quote is exactly right, I think it's "...don't you ever stand for that kind of thing. If someone tries to kill you, you try to kill em right back" but I fully agree.

[Bob Denman]

[QUOTE=Firefly;482313]

Okay Cap'n StrawMan........ lol

I have a little thing called INSURANCE for all of my worldly goods...... so I don't see them as really being lost... I would rebuild my life and wealth to a sustainable level..... Or maybe I'd just go get a gun and come steal all yer stuff......

Ah! As an insurance professional; the amount of aggravation that comes with filing a claim and dealing with an adjuster who's got too many files on their desk just makes it impossislbe to get back to where you were before the hit the fan.
I'm glad that your second statement was a joke... Wasn't it??

[Bob Denman]

Oh; The A.C.L.U. didn't challenge their statute. They questioned them about it and Keenesaw basically asked them for a bit of help with how to word it...
It was understood from the beginning that it was not a law to be enforced; but a statement to be made...

[Firefly]

[QUOTE=Bob Denman;482316]

Ah! As an insurance professional; the amount of aggravation that comes with filing a claim and dealing with an adjuster who's got too many files on their desk just makes it impossislbe to get back to where you were before the hit the fan.
I'm glad that your second statement was a joke... Wasn't it??

Well---- I can tell you while I did sweat a bit during my recent insurance claim on my GS.... I came out smelling like a chocolate covered rose. Got more than I paid for my 5 year old Spyder with 56,000 miles on it....

-------------------------

Good conversation everyone-- and pretty civil for the most part......Hope everyone who wants to will exercise their 2nd Amendment rights as they see fit.... I just CHOOSE not to.... and that is the key...... having the CHOICE. Maybe I'm really a Canadian at heart---- even though the won't let me in !!!

[Firefly]

Oh; The A.C.L.U. didn't challenge their statute. They questioned them about it and Keenesaw basically asked them for a bit of help with how to word it...
It was understood from the beginning that it was not a law to be enforced; but a statement to be made...

So it's a totally moot point.

Brilliant waste of time and money to prove a point... that they didn't end up proving because of the exemptions.......

[Bob Denman]

Maybe it's because you don't like their version of "bacon"...

[smoky]

Well, I feel sorry for your friend that he felt so good about taking a life. Ask anyone in law enforcement and they'll tell you the best option is to give them what they want and let them leave.. then call the police. He could have easily been killed or got one of the patrons killed. He escalated the situation when it didn't need to be. 99% of the time they just want the money and will leave.

Whatever items they were taking were not worth the life of a young 18 year old - no way - no how.... no matter how much a of a bad person he was.

If the situation is at the point that I get the feel that it's my life or his, I am sure glad my Smith and Wesson Life Insurance policy is paid up and I can cash it in. I think any rational person would agree with this.....smoky

[WingmanRT]

And yet none of these things happened to YOU... which is my entire point. The things you mentioned above didn't happen to you.. no matter if they happened next door to you-- it still was not you.... so you still don't get counted on that side of the statistics..... and that's what I'm saying. With violent crime continuing to drop over the last 60 years... we have far less to worry about.

I just don't live my life in fear... never have... never will. I don't ride in fear of death... and I don't travel like it either. If I die tomorrow-- so be it--- I've had a great life so far. Not that I want to die tomorrow-- but it's just really not something I fear.

And I never said "nobody, not even the most violent scumbags, deserve to be shot". What I said that no amount of my material possessions are worth killing someone over.

True. You said "Whatever items they were taking were not worth the life of a young 18 year old - no way - no how.... no matter how much a of a bad person he was." I agree. No money or material things are worth killing for. Way & How: My family's personal safety, lives and well being ARE worth stopping a "bad person" for. Sadly, Bad Persons don't like witnesses or care about our safety or laws. If an 18 year old Bad Person points a gun at me or mine with the intent to do harm, they have forfeited the right to cry "No fair. You have a gun too."

As for me not being in the situations I mentioned, does that mean if the statistic isn't about ME personally, it isn't real? If the crime is committed against my next door neighbor, then it doesn't count? In what universe is that even logical? And as it so happens, I actually have been robbed at gun point. So, yes, I do get to be a REAL statistic when I grow up. What was your point again?

I don't carry a gun out of fear. I carry it as a preventive measure. Yes, the odds of violent crime threatening me and mine are slim, but so is crashing my bike, and yet... I wear a helmet. Or pay life insurance for the last several decades, even though the odds of me dying (in my younger years) was microscopic. In case I do, my family is protected. The gun is not out of fear, but for the ability to protect my family in the off hand (and steadily increasing) chance that violence does intrude into my life (again).

In the real world: In NC, according to FBI statistics, (which I assume you will give me as a valid source) there is 3.6% chance my wife or I will experience a violent crime, murder, forcible rape, or aggravated assault (IN A GIVEN YEAR) [39,885 REPORTED crimes divided by a population of 2.2 million]. This does not include: robbery, property crime, burglary, larceny-theft, motor vehicle theft, or arson, because... as you say, "not worth the life of.. blah blah blah". If included, those crimes increases the chances that one of us will be the victim of one of these crimes to 39.2%. [433,886 instances divided by a population of 2.2 million x the two of us.. or does she not count either, because it isn't me?]

Here is a point of my own: you seem to be under the impression that I (and others) are trying to change your point of view on the right to carry a concealed weapon. I'm not. I was explaining that I do because crime isn't isolated anymore and happens to good people in all locations. Some people don't carry out of fear, they carry to "inoculate" themselves (and reduce) against the admittedly small odds that bad things will happen to them or their families. They are not relying on the government (minutes way... I love that!) to protect them, but are empowering themselves to do so.

You clearly are never going to carry a weapon and I am okay with that. I have no desire to influence you one way or the other. Your mind is made up. Guns:Evil. Cool. We get it. You don't want a gun.

[Spy+]

Wow.. This thread has more comments that the one from the guybwith the red RT and the small dog..

Glad that we have a choice to carry or not a gun in this great country and to get to ride on two or three wheels...

[smoky]

Here is a fun one.

http://www.rense.com/general9/gunlaw.htm

I live near there. The article is totally true!~ and it just GALLS liberals out the whazoo!....smoky

[porboy]

Retired Police Officer, Always have, Always will, .40 Glock model 27.