Spyder DPS Poll

[Firefly]

O.K. I voted no problems for my 08. What happens to the poll if that changes?

It veers off course.....

[Smylinacha]

What about the people who don't use this forum.....some people just don't do the forum thing. I was reading about the recall done from the Kneeslider and there are like 7 or 8 complaints on that - not sure if they are members on here or not - didn't recognize the names.....

http://thekneeslider.com/archives/20...adster-recall/

If you read the comments after the article you'll see some people who posted about it. I mean 7 or 8 isn't huge but that's 7 or 8 lives right there - it's happening. I'm not gonna comment emotionally about anything but I'm just saying that there are others out there so how many more that we don't see on the internet?

[Firefly]

ok Firefly 2 questions

What does your magic orb say about the results so far?
What is that in your avatar now ?

The numbers show what they show.. you can read into them whatever you want... and it's obvious many will see them in a different light. As I stated before, the goal isn't to 'prove' or 'disprove' anything in particular. I find the numbers very interesting......

My take so far....and much of this is pure speculation .....

1. Numbers are skewed from both those with and without DPS problems. Some may not know if they have DPS problems *yet*, while others have sold them and the bike *may* better fit into the 'fixed' category--- or the missing 'not sure' category. Others have not voted because they are unsure where they really fit. Nature of the beast and expected.

2. The number of those that have had DPS problems is around 60 so far. This is higher than I personally would have anticipated from this small sampling.

3. Out of 3,700+ members we're only getting a small sample. How many of the members out here own Spyders? My best guess would be 40-50% own Spyders-- but that's just a stab in the dark. So 1,500 - 2,000....??.

4. How many more Spyders of the general membership have had DPS problems??? Impossible to know, but my gut feeling would be there are far more without DPS problems than with. I believe the current '40% HAD or HAVE DPS problems' would drop substantially.

5. I don't believe out of potentially 2,000 Spyder owners out here that 40% have/had DPS problems. That would be 800 Spyders and this board would be lit up like a christmas tree.... as would other boards.

6. If we did have around 2,000 Spyder owners out here, and if most of them reported no DPS problems and we were left with only '60' we have now - that would put DPS failures at around 3% of all Spyders. This number is also higher than what I anticipated, and in reality will probably be HIGHER--- maybe upwards of 5 to 7%... which is pretty shocking to me..... I would be floored if the number hit 10% with DPS problems.

7. Then again there were 9,000 Spyders recalled that had the 'potential' for DPS issues.. so maybe these numbers shouldn't be surprising...

8. Perhaps the most important thing I see is the numbers are heavily skewed towards this being a '2008 model year' problem.

So what was up with 2008??
What is different in 2009/2010??

That would be my area of interest!

-----------------------------

On the 2nd question.... Firefly-- the SciFi TV series.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0303461/

[Firefly]

What about the people who don't use this forum.....some people just don't do the forum thing. I was reading about the recall done from the Kneeslider and there are like 7 or 8 complaints on that - not sure if they are members on here or not - didn't recognize the names.....

http://thekneeslider.com/archives/20...adster-recall/

If you read the comments after the article you'll see some people who posted about it. I mean 7 or 8 isn't huge but that's 7 or 8 lives right there - it's happening. I'm not gonna comment emotionally about anything but I'm just saying that there are others out there so how many more that we don't see on the internet?

No one's saying it 'isn't happening'..... that isn't the purpose of this poll at all. Certainly there will be plenty we don't know about either way.

[SpyderWolf]

So what was up with 2008??
What is different in 2009/2010??

That would be my area of interest!

Different part numbers for not only the DPS, but also the ECM. Not sure what changed within the components themselves, but something had to in order to require a part number change.

It would also be interesting to find out if there is a difference in the Steering Angle Sensor (SAS) or Yaw Sensor as well.

As FireFly stated earlier on in this thread, this poll can only cover those on this forum that choose to participate. While it may be a more widespread issue out in the wild, we have no possible way of collecting those numbers.

[bone crusher]

The numbers show what they show.. you can read into them whatever you want... and it's obvious many will see them in a different light. As I stated before, the goal isn't to 'prove' or 'disprove' anything in particular. I find the numbers very interesting......

My take so far....and much of this is pure speculation .....

1. Numbers are skewed from both those with and without DPS problems. Some may not know if they have DPS problems *yet*, while others have sold them and the bike *may* better fit into the 'fixed' category--- or the missing 'not sure' category. Others have not voted because they are unsure where they really fit. Nature of the beast and expected.

2. The number of those that have had DPS problems is around 60 so far. This is higher than I personally would have anticipated from this small sampling.

3. Out of 3,700+ members we're only getting a small sample. How many of the members out here own Spyders? My best guess would be 40-50% own Spyders-- but that's just a stab in the dark. So 1,500 - 2,000....??.

4. How many more Spyders of the general membership have had DPS problems??? Impossible to know, but my gut feeling would be there are far more without DPS problems than with. I believe the current '40% HAD or HAVE DPS problems' would drop substantially.

5. I don't believe out of potentially 2,000 Spyder owners out here that 40% have/had DPS problems. That would be 800 Spyders and this board would be lit up like a christmas tree.... as would other boards.

6. If we did have around 2,000 Spyder owners out here, and if most of them reported no DPS problems and we were left with only '60' we have now - that would put DPS failures at around 3% of all Spyders. This number is also higher than what I anticipated, and in reality will probably be HIGHER--- maybe upwards of 5 to 7%... which is pretty shocking to me..... I would be floored if the number hit 10% with DPS problems.

7. Then again there were 9,000 Spyders recalled that had the 'potential' for DPS issues.. so maybe these numbers shouldn't be surprising...

8. Perhaps the most important thing I see is the numbers are heavily skewed towards this being a '2008 model year' problem.

So what was up with 2008??
What is different in 2009/2010??

That would be my area of interest!

-----------------------------

On the 2nd question.... Firefly-- the SciFi TV series.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0303461/

Fire,

How many 2008 are on the road vs. 2009 and 2010...I'd think that 2008 was the biggest selling year, but who knows...all the PEs are considered 2008, so you have over 3000 right there...I have a 2008 but it's not a PE...of let's say 15,000 bikes, probably more than half are 2008 vs. 2009 and 2010 combined...once the big 'rush' ended, sales did slow considerably, you think? Also, economic downturn in 2009 likely slowed sales...

[Firefly]

Fire,

How many 2008 are on the road vs. 2009 and 2010...I'd think that 2008 was the biggest selling year, but who knows...all the PEs are considered 2008, so you have over 3000 right there...I have a 2008 but it's not a PE...of let's say 15,000 bikes, probably more than half are 2008 vs. 2009 and 2010 combined...once the big 'rush' ended, sales did slow considerably, you think? Also, economic downturn in 2009 likely slowed sales...

I believe the actual number of production units in 2008 was around 5,000 -- including the 2,500 PE units.

Scotty had a good point in the other thread-- it might not be that they changed any parts--- it might be because they started doing the program updates in mid-2009 right from the factory.

[M2Wild]

Firefly,

I can't answer your poll because none of the above reflect my situation, yet. Late last year as I posted on here at that time, I thought I had experienced a DPS malfunction. The Spyder began to drift left, as I tried to bring it back from crossing the center line it seemed to not respond. As I put more pressure on the handle bars to get it back it all of a sudden jerked to the right. I took it to my dealer to get it checked out and have the extension hose put on my evap canister. They told me the Spyder was fine because it didn't throw up any codes. I also didn't get the hose on the evap canister because my VIN# wasn't on the list for the update. They delivered my Spyder after the first snow came and I haven't ridden it since.

IMO if they performed actual work to address your problem, then its considered fixed until the problem occures again. Just because they didn't see an error code(s) doesn't not constitute "problem fixed". No way no how in my book, unless you are fine with them calling you a lier. However, I am fine if they tell me that they can't duplicate the problem while the unit is in their shop and they can't find any stored codes and since its the first time this happened, it COULD be a fluke and need me to bring it back if it happens AGAIN. It's not fixed but further testing is needed. I am okay if they took that approach ... but I'd flip if they said its perfect during the 5 min. in their shop.

[Sarge707]

All this is very interesting for this retired mind but- "What you Say?"
This is NOT doing BRP sales any good ?

I,m glad I bought my Spyder BEFORE I started viewing this Forum in OCT or I might not have bought one ?

GladI did cause its gonna be 70 the next 3 days and I,m Going Ridin!!!

[mxz600]

IMO if they performed actual work to address your problem, then its considered fixed until the problem occures again. Just because they didn't see an error code(s) doesn't not constitute "problem fixed". No way no how in my book, unless you are fine with them calling you a lier. However, I am fine if they tell me that they can't duplicate the problem while the unit is in their shop and they can't find any stored codes and since its the first time this happened, it COULD be a fluke and need me to bring it back if it happens AGAIN. It's not fixed but further testing is needed. I am okay if they took that approach ... but I'd flip if they said its perfect during the 5 min. in their shop.

I hear what your saying. I didn't want to vote until I got it out and rode a little. Well now I have and "Houston, we have a problem". I went for a nice little ride Tuesday night, nothing. Wednesday coming to work, nothing. Going home, stuck twice. On the way to work this morning it stuck three times. Went for a ride to a different town for lunch everything seemed fine. I have an email into Carlo with a simple question. Could the DPS be bad and not give a code. The steering glitch right now is not bad, a little extra pressure and it kicks in. I don't change lanes or run off the side of the road. I will continue to ride it this way until it gets worse or my dealer can assure me it will not be held hostage for four, six or eight weeks waiting for parts because .

[Firefly]

IMO if they performed actual work to address your problem, then its considered fixed until the problem occures again. Just because they didn't see an error code(s) doesn't not constitute "problem fixed". No way no how in my book, unless you are fine with them calling you a lier. However, I am fine if they tell me that they can't duplicate the problem while the unit is in their shop and they can't find any stored codes and since its the first time this happened, it COULD be a fluke and need me to bring it back if it happens AGAIN. It's not fixed but further testing is needed. I am okay if they took that approach ... but I'd flip if they said its perfect during the 5 min. in their shop.

You and I think alike on this manner. The only way to know if something is fixed is to test it--- and that means RIDING the darn thing. As BRP tests and those that have had DPS problems out here have verified--- even with the DPS acting up they have still been able to control the bike.

mxz600's approach is how I would (and did) approach the situation. Get it 'fixed', ride it and see if it's really fixed.... if not--- take it back in--- but perhaps wait until they have the latest update. In the meantime ride it--- but be aware....

[Firefly]

I hear what your saying. I didn't want to vote until I got it out and rode a little. Well now I have and "Houston, we have a problem". I went for a nice little ride Tuesday night, nothing. Wednesday coming to work, nothing. Going home, stuck twice. On the way to work this morning it stuck three times. Went for a ride to a different town for lunch everything seemed fine. I have an email into Carlo with a simple question. Could the DPS be bad and not give a code. The steering glitch right now is not bad, a little extra pressure and it kicks in. I don't change lanes or run off the side of the road. I will continue to ride it this way until it gets worse or my dealer can assure me it will not be held hostage for four, six or eight weeks waiting for parts because .

I agree 100% with your approach on this.

[SpyderGirl]

I am also wondering how many people here have went in to have the DPS update and then took it back because it threw a code or wasn't right then found it was the Steering Angle Sensor that wasn't right? That's what it was with mine.

Mine seems okay now... I'm still not sure it's okay yet or not... need more time.

[SpyderGirl]

I agree 100% with your approach on this.

They probably aren't riding it far enough to get the code after doing the DPS update. Mine didn't start acting up until I was nearly 20 miles away.

When I took it back and they did something with the steering angle sensor and rode it again they gave it a nice long test ride (about 18 miles they said) with no problems. I picked it up and a few hundred miles later it's still "okay".

[SpyderWolf]

They probably aren't riding it far enough to get the code after doing the DPS update. Mine didn't start acting up until I was nearly 20 miles away.

When I took it back and they did something with the steering angle sensor and rode it again they gave it a nice long test ride (about 18 miles they said) with no problems. I picked it up and a few hundred miles later it's still "okay".

If I recall many of the postings on here stated the Spyder did not throw a code when the steering problem happened. I believe that is one of the things that is making this issue more difficult to troubleshoot as well. If it gave a code for the DPS being bad, or the SAS as in your case, they could pin point the trouble spot a lot easier. However, we have heard of them replacing the DPS, SAS, and GPS on certain Spyders in an attempt to fix them so far.

[Lamonster]

As we all know even poll results can be slanted if they are not voted on honestly.
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/p...ults&pollid=31

[czdaryle]

here is what I see and I realize the numbers are what they are, but I have a 2008 and I have NOT had an issue...yet. But looks like if you own a 2008 you have a 50% chance of having the steering issue happen to you.

For 2008 - 60 no dps issue
57 dps issue (fixed and not fixed)

that is nuts!!! Please tell me I am looking at this wrong

[M2Wild]

here is what I see and I realize the numbers are what they are, but I have a 2008 and I have NOT had an issue...yet. But looks like if you own a 2008 you have a 50% chance of having the steering issue happen to you.

For 2008 - 60 no dps issue
57 dps issue (fixed and not fixed)

that is nuts!!! Please tell me I am looking at this wrong

I think it should be 99 no problem and fixed vs. 18 not fixed. I have no problem having the problem fixed. Nothing is perfect.

PS. I got a very thoughtful PM from Carlo about my concern with DPS. I shard with him my preciption of issue at hand and made a few suggestions.

[M2Wild]

or my dealer can assure me it will not be held hostage for four, six or eight weeks waiting for parts because .

Yeah, I hear you on that one. That's just crazy having your bike in the shop for that long period of time in the moddle of PRIME riding season. Unlike Floridians, us northeners have reather limited riding time.

[czdaryle]

I think it should be 99 no problem and fixed vs. 18 not fixed. I have no problem having the problem fixed. Nothing is perfect.

PS. I got a very thoughtful PM from Carlo about my concern with DPS. I shard with him my preciption of issue at hand and made a few suggestions.

I want it fixed before it happens if it is a known issue. I understand if there is no known issue we all take our chances but if we know there is a issue fix it before it happens not after cause one time someone isn't gonna make it

[Firefly]

here is what I see and I realize the numbers are what they are, but I have a 2008 and I have NOT had an issue...yet. But looks like if you own a 2008 you have a 50% chance of having the steering issue happen to you.

For 2008 - 60 no dps issue
57 dps issue (fixed and not fixed)

that is nuts!!! Please tell me I am looking at this wrong

I really think it's difficult to look at the numbers like that as we know there are hundreds more out here that have not had the DPS problems.

I highly doubt there is anywhere near 50% of 2008 models having such problems.... seriously--- these forums would be over-run with people posting about the problems--- and they just are not--- it's the same dozen folks doing most of the complaining.

I was contacted by Carlo also.... they are reading things out here.

[ArmyJoe]

But looks like if you own a 2008 you have a 50% chance of having the steering issue happen to you.

That's 50% of the Spyderlovers that bothered to vote. You can't really extrapolate that to the entire ownership.

[Firefly]

That's 50% of the Spyderlovers that bothered to vote. You can't really extrapolate that to the entire ownership.

Again... this data won't be very good for looking at 'who does' vs. 'who doesn't'...... but it is good for looking at what year and the 'had it fixed' vs. 'still have problems'.

Out of 67 with DPS problems, 45 of those have been fixed and currently do not show signs of the problem (according to those who own them).

That's 67% 'fixed'.

Of the 22 'not fixed', 1 is an RT that had error codes on the screen - which is different than actual steering lock, at least 3 no longer own the Spyders so we don't know the current status of those bikes, and a few other responses are questionable.....

With such low numbers - every vote can make a huge difference in the %.

[Firefly]

Looking at the info again.....

4 still reporting DPS problems no longer own their Spyders.
1 appears to have purge valve problems - not DPS problems.
1 didn't have steering lock - but a limp mode DPS error.
8 voters had never posted about having any DPS problems prior to voting.

Might want to keep these in mind when looking at the data.... for what it's worth.

[ARtraveler]

Id like to vote one more time since I have two spyders. If you can add one more---2009 SE5---no problems.