Limp Home mode due to water pump/thermostat - OK to ride?

[Hogiewolf]

Got a Limp Home mode. Turned the bike off and then turned it on again, and the Limp mode was gone.

Took it to the dealer the next day. They think the thermostat was sticking and overheating the bike. They quoted me $750 for a new water pump assembly. Does that sound right to you on the price?

They also told me I could still drive it the way it is, just don’t idle for long periods. It’s a 2016 Spyder RT Limited.

They also charged me $350 today because of some clutch codes and transmission filters.

[bikerchris1270]

Do the cooling fans come on? Did temp gauge show hot engine condition at any time? Is the coolant level correct? Condition of coolant? Radiators free of debris?

[Hogiewolf]

They serviced the coolant less a year ago. They said it was low, so they topped it off. Fans do come on.
Never registered hot, always on 4 squares at of 10. Radiators being clogged wasn’t mentioned. I assumed they ruled that out if they were checking out the fan. Bike is overheating if standing still for 15 minutes or so.

[BajaRon]

They serviced the coolant less a year ago. They said it was low, so they topped it off. Fans do come on.
Never registered hot, always on 4 squares at of 10. Radiators being clogged wasn’t mentioned. I assumed they ruled that out if they were checking out the fan. Bike is overheating if standing still for 15 minutes or so.

Don't ever assume anything. From oil changes to brake jobs. Always check for yourself.

[bikerchris1270]

They serviced the coolant less a year ago. They said it was low, so they topped it off. Fans do come on.
Never registered hot, always on 4 squares at of 10. Radiators being clogged wasn’t mentioned. I assumed they ruled that out if they were checking out the fan. Bike is overheating if standing still for 15 minutes or so.

So, if it "overheats", what happens? Is coolant released from the coolant tank? What tells you it’s overheating, just a MIL light?

What year is the Spyder? Mileage?

[Little Blue]

So, if it "overheats", what happens? Is coolant released from the coolant tank? What tells you it’s overheating, just a MIL light?

What year is the Spyder? Mileage?

As per OP, his Spyder is a 2016 RTL.

.... Took it to the dealer the next day. They think the thermostat was sticking and overheating the bike. They quoted me $750 for a new water pump assembly. Does that sound right to you on the price?

They also told me I could still drive it the way it is, just don’t idle for long periods. It’s a 2016 Spyder RT Limited.

....

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Got a Limp Home mode. Turned the bike off and then turned it on again, and the Limp mode was gone.

Took it to the dealer the next day. They think the thermostat was sticking and overheating the bike. They quoted me $750 for a new water pump assembly. Does that sound right to you on the price?

They also told me I could still drive it the way it is, just don’t idle for long periods. It’s a 2016 Spyder RT Limited.

They also charged me $350 today because of some clutch codes and transmission filters.

"THEY THINK" ?????? ..... If it were me, I'd be looking for another dealer ..... JMHO ... good luck .... Mike

[Mikey]

I would make sure all your fluids are up where they should be and go out and ride it and see if it happens again. If so, take notice of what's going on, gauges, lights going off, ect. Then get back to us. Good luck!

[PMK]

Mr Hogiewolf, what you describe does sound familiar of a failing thermostat.

Having dealt with this myself only a couple months ago, I share these tests I did.

First verify no obstructions of airflow across the radiators. If in doubt, use hydrogen peroxide, sprayed onto the radiator fins (radiators not hot), let sit keeping wet about ten minutes, then rinse carefully from the rear side, then front side.

Yes, at idle, parked, the temp would increase well above normal. When fans came on, as they should, the airflow when stopped blows forward. With engine idling, temps increasing, place your hand in front of each radiator. Is the air blown on your hand hot, or cool. If the air remains cool, the thermostat stuck, and no heated water is circulating into the radiators.

To validate you do not have an indication issue, disconnect the analog fuel gage and analog temp gage. Doing so will put the indicated display onto the center display. If the center display also indicates high temps, there is no concern of a failed indicator.

Unfortunately, on ours, the temp problem was semi-intermittent. Sometimes fine, other times wanting to overheat.

That said, and not wanting engine damage from overheating, or getting stranded, I purchased a new OEM water pump assembly and installed it.

The price the shop quoted seems accurate. The water pump is a couple bucks under $300 at MSRP. The shop will also charge for new coolant, and several of the OEM type non reusable hose clamps. Shop hours should be between 1 1/2 to 2 hours. This includes draining coolant, obtaining access by removing body panels and the computer. Then swapping the pump and reassembling.

Most folks here that attempted replacing a water pump indicated they would have preferred letting the dealer do the work. Yes, I did the work myself without issue or concern, but then again, my dumb brain finds Spyders to be pretty basic machines.

Entirely up to you how to proceed, but unlike a cut on your finger, this will probably not heal itself.

[Wmoater]

This may be a dumb question, but if the coolant was low like you said, and they just added coolant, did it run a bit hotter after they added the coolant or did it just all the sudden start running hotter now? Did they top the coolant off, and you put in storage and now it runs hot, or did you have it done last summer and it worked perfectly and now is running hot? The reason I am asking is - Could it have a big air pocket in there that needs burped after adding coolant? How much coolant did they have to add? If there’s an air pocket in there it would run hot or even hotter than normal until that works its way out, if it works its way out. Personally, I’d drain the coolant thru the bottom hose and start all over, burp that system good, then top it up and let it pressurize, and repeat until you know there’s no air in there. PMK definitely gave great advice on the thermostat if the system doesn’t have air in it. Just a thought.

[PMK]

This may be a dumb question, but if the coolant was low like you said, and they just added coolant, did it run a bit hotter after they added the coolant or did it just all the sudden start running hotter now? Did they top the coolant off, and you put in storage and now it runs hot, or did you have it done last summer and it worked perfectly and now is running hot? The reason I am asking is - Could it have a big air pocket in there that needs burped after adding coolant? How much coolant did they have to add? If there’s an air pocket in there it would run hot or even hotter than normal until that works its way out, if it works its way out. Personally, I’d drain the coolant thru the bottom hose and start all over, burp that system good, then top it up and let it pressurize, and repeat until you know there’s no air in there. PMK definitely gave great advice on the thermostat if the system doesn’t have air in it. Just a thought.

During my recent exploits of water pump replacement on a 1330, I had concerns about entrapped air within the engine cooling jackets.
As best I learned, and certainly willing to be incorrect if someone finds in the repair manual, that the cooling system requires a specific attention to purging out air.
What I found was the 1330 is self-purging by design. When I refilled the system via the coolant cap, the system filled right up. As expected, I lit the engine, letting it run for a few minutes, then added a small amount to bring it up to full.

At this point, this is the best cooling system performance this Spyder ever has had. And yes, I accomplished a system flush and fill less than a year before. The existing coolant was discarded, the recent refill was the other gallon I mixed for the previous drain, flush, fill.

[Hogiewolf]

So, if it "overheats", what happens? Is coolant released from the coolant tank? What tells you it’s overheating, just a MIL light?

What year is the Spyder? Mileage?

2016 RT Limited. When idling more than 10 minutes I would see a small stream under bike. Honestly thought I parked where a car was previously. There was no indication of over-heating. If I didn’t bring it to the dealer because of limp mode, I would never have known.

At the dealership after they added the coolant, they let it idle for 20 minutes and it overheated again. They said as long as I don’t idle for a long time and turn it off there won’t be any issues.

Seems to have ridden okay all the way home. Going up to Americade on Wednesday. Guess that’ll be the ultimate test.
Thank you for your input.

[BajaRon]

2016 RT Limited. When idling more than 10 minutes I would see a small stream under bike. Honestly thought I parked where a car was previously. There was no indication of over-heating. If I didn’t bring it to the dealer because of limp mode, I would never have known.
....

You should not be losing any coolant at all. You could have a thermostat problem. But it could also be a number of other things. Finding out where the coolant leak is coming from would be very helpful. It could be coming from the water pump itself, a less than properly tightened hose clamp (we've seen several of these, especially after a coolant system service), a cracked reservoir, or a damaged radiator or hose. It could even be trapped air in the system which can create an 'Overflow' issue in the reservoir pushing coolant out of the cap.

I'm not saying it isn't the thermostat. But that is about the most expensive way to go and may not fix your issue.

Here's a great way to check for coolant leaks. (I love this guy! He's Crazy! But he's right!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDuGeQnMOzk

[Mikey]

[Hogiewolf]

Well, now things have escalated worse. I went up to Americade and the bike went into limp mode a couple of times, but when I turned it off and on again, it disappeared until my day to come home, when it came on and stayed on for the five hour trip that took me 10 hours! When I gave it to the shop, they said there was a ground that they fixed, but it's still in limp mode. He says it’s a modular and that the part cost $1100; and it’s going to take seven hours. So we’re talking about low end of $2200.Does this sound unreasonable? Can I find a modular used somewhere?

[Lew L]

.

Don't know what a "modular" is??? Could be the Electronic Control Unit (ECU). They must be expensive BUT they are easy to replace, and SELDOM fail.
I to have been to water pump/thermostat hell. The thermostat broke into 2 pieces. I replaced the pump (at about $300), but it also was defective, and it wouldn't seal up. The Dealer replaced the unit I purchased for free, but the labor was still another $300. So your prices are not too far out of line.

Would still love to know what the dealer meant by a "modular"

Lew L

If it's an ECU:

$450 used (I wouldn't)
$1000 or more new

[BertRemington]

You've been to your dealership several times. Would you please post pictures of all the service orders. This ensures we understand exactly what the dealership diagnosed and what measures were taken, including routine maintenance. If the orders have any personal information, please make a copy and then use a marker to hide that information.

As BajaRon said you should not have any coolant leaks. Determining the source of the leak is your highest priority.

[PMK]

Well, now things have escalated worse. I went up to Americade and the bike went into limp mode a couple of times, but when I turned it off and on again, it disappeared until my day to come home, when it came on and stayed on for the five hour trip that took me 10 hours! When I gave it to the shop, they said there was a ground that they fixed, but it's still in limp mode. He says it’s a modular and that the part cost $1100; and it’s going to take seven hours. So we’re talking about low end of $2200.Does this sound unreasonable? Can I find a modular used somewhere?

If those prices are for replacing a water pump assembly that includes thermostat and drive gear, plus the install, that is really overquoted.
To gain access requires removal of right-side bodywork. The computer is adjacent to the water pump and is set to the side.
The OEM hose clamps get cut off. The system is drained. The water pump assembly removed; new assembly installed. Hose installed with new clamps. The system filled, run, and leak checked. Assuming there's no leaks and normal operation, reinstall the body panel.

I recently did this myself. Granted, I do not run OEM hose clamps by choice, so that made things easier. The task was not difficult or truly complex. Time wise, it was certainly no more than two hours actual, but I did not compare that to the published flat rate.

Besides the pump assembly, you will have coolant, clamps, and likely miscellaneous shop fees, plus tax.

Then again, maybe the shop is determining it is something else?