Buying used - 2015 Spyder F3-S - is this milage/usage a concern?

[delkhouri]

I have found a 2015 Spyder F3-S SM6 for sale for a very reasonable price. It looks very clean, but it has 40k miles on it. I am a little but not overly concerned with the amount of miles it has. The owner says he has had it for 6 years and has only put on 5k miles in his time of ownership which is less than 1k miles a year, and that has me concerned. The Spyder is located about 4 hours away, so seeing it in person is difficult. It also hasn't really been ridden this year, and the recall(s) have not been done. According to the owner it has new tires, battery, and spark plugs.

My questions are:

1) should I just forget about it because of mileage and its relative lack of use over the last few years; and
2) if it is something I should consider, what steps should I take to ensure it isn't a lemon?

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I have found a 2015 Spyder F3-S SM6 for sale for a very reasonable price. It looks very clean, but it has 40k miles on it. I am a little but not overly concerned with the amount of miles it has. The owner says he has had it for 6 years and has only put on 5k miles in his time of ownership which is less than 1k miles a year, and that has me concerned. The Spyder is located about 4 hours away, so seeing it in person is difficult. It also hasn't really been ridden this year, and the recall(s) have not been done. According to the owner it has new tires, battery, and spark plugs.

My questions are:

1) should I just forget about it because of mileage and its relative lack of use over the last few years; and
2) if it is something I should consider, what steps should I take to ensure it isn't a lemon?

I have over 80,000 miles on my 14 RT, which I bought and have DIY serviced since new - only 40,000 miles on a 1330 engine is nothing to be concerned about. You don't say how much they are asking, and that's important info as to whether it's priced right or not?! You should realize that most Spyders have the SE trans, so selling it could be an issue. That fact lowers what its' worth also. Good Luck .... Mike

[delkhouri]

I have over 80,000 miles on my 14 RT, which I bought and have DIY serviced since new - only 40,000 miles on a 1330 engine is nothing to be concerned about. You don't say how much they are asking, and that's important info as to whether it's priced right or not?! You should realize that most Spyders have the SE trans, so selling it could be an issue. That fact lowers what its' worth also. Good Luck .... Mike

I do know the manual is less desirable and harder to sell, but I also plan to keep it for a while. I'm not all that concerned with the 40k miles, but more concerned it has only had 5k put on it in the last 6 years.
I didn't want to put the price on here as it might alert someone to a good deal, and they would snatch it out from under me; but it's $7k

[Woodaddict]

You can ask if any codes have been thrown. But that takes an honest seller. Could also ask for VIN # to take to a dealer (if they would be so energetic to look it up) to see what has been reported and done for servicing.

[blacklightning]

I do know the manual is less desirable and harder to sell, but I also plan to keep it for a while. I'm not all that concerned with the 40k miles, but more concerned it has only had 5k put on it in the last 6 years.
I didn't want to put the price on here as it might alert someone to a good deal, and they would snatch it out from under me; but it's $7k

I would not be too concerned with 40k miles. As for it not being ridden too much in the last 6 years, that is common too. Lots of people think that is what they want, then life changes. And lastly, the price is not bad, in fact it is pretty good. The SE transmission was a $1500 Option; and that has consistently been about what the difference in price is. As for resale value, I have noticed that since the SM version isn't available anymore, people tend to actually like them. I would still prefer the SE model myself, but I wouldn't shy away from a good deal on an SM, since my first Spyder was a 2014 RT SM6. Good luck.

[Sarge707]

I have the 2015 SM6 and the clutch was Very Tough to pull (a First Year thing). We joked back then that you have to be Pop Eye!? My dealer installed a factory update vacuum assist on the clutch and it's more like an RT now. I would not want it without the vacuum assist.

[delkhouri]

The seller never provided the VIN, and it sold. So the search continues!

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

The seller never provided the VIN, and it sold. So the search continues!

Look at what "iMotorsports" (a site sponsor here) has - they will ship most Spyders for free .... Mike

[delkhouri]

Here is another one I found. It's a 2015 F3S and the description says:

“just had it serviced this week, oil change, coolant, new plugs, fuel filter, also had fuel tank flushed because bad gas 13,880 miles”

It is a good price, but I've seen a couple of posts of people buying used Spyders that have relatively low miles with recent major service and it's not going well. There was a guy on this forum who bought a 15 F3 with recent plugs changed and it ended up needing a new engine. Maybe I'm just being too cautious, but what are your thoughts on this one for sale with all the work done? Is it a good sign, or covering something up?

[Sarge707]

Here is another one I found. It's a 2015 F3S and the description says:

“just had it serviced this week, oil change, coolant, new plugs, fuel filter, also had fuel tank flushed because bad gas 13,880 miles”

It is a good price, but I've seen a couple of posts of people buying used Spyders that have relatively low miles with recent major service and it's not going well. There was a guy on this forum who bought a 15 F3 with recent plugs changed and it ended up needing a new engine. Maybe I'm just being too cautious, but what are your thoughts on this one for sale with all the work done? Is it a good sign, or covering something up?

I would be very suspicious of what they said. But I have my F3 ?

[Peter Aawen]

Here is another one I found. It's a 2015 F3S and the description says:

“just had it serviced this week, oil change, coolant, new plugs, fuel filter, also had fuel tank flushed because bad gas 13,880 miles”

It is a good price, but I've seen a couple of posts of people buying used Spyders that have relatively low miles with recent major service and it's not going well. There was a guy on this forum who bought a 15 F3 with recent plugs changed and it ended up needing a new engine. Maybe I'm just being too cautious, but what are your thoughts on this one for sale with all the work done? Is it a good sign, or covering something up?

Yeah, you probably ARE being too cautious; and the reality of all this is that NO-ONE BUT YOU can make up your mind on it!!

There are bad-luck stories all over, in fact, you are FAR more likely to hear the 'bad news stories' than you are the 'good news stories' from the people who bought Spyders that others thought looked a bit iffy only turned out OK!!

So screw your courage to the sticking place; do all your due-diligence checks (& they REALLY SHOULDN'T include seeking advice on a Forum, but SHOULD include...) things like getting the VIN checked by a dealer; looking for any obvious signs of damage/poor maintenance/dodgy work; maybe getting a trusted mechanic/Spyder tech to check it over; and a bunch more that've been discussed here previously (do a search maybe?! ) and then make up your own mind. Trying to get others (especially if they are effectively random strangers, albeit possibly with a common interest ) to convince you that doing something is a good choice is usually a pretty good sign that YOU don't think it is, in which case, I'd suggest that you just DON'T TOUCH IT!! And if you don't want to do all this, facing the risks of buying privately and doing all the hard work yourself, then DON'T, go to a dealer, or somewhere you have some chance of comeback if the Spyder isn't exactly what they told you, and someone you'll be able to find to sue if you need too!! Sure, it'll cost you more, but hey, if you want cheap, then a Spyder's probably not a great start!

C'mon, do you want a Spyder??

If you DO, then find one YOU like; do all that due-diligence stuff; make sure it's not stolen/is legally owned by whoever is selling it to you &/or that they are authorised to sell it to you; make sure that you are comfortable with or at least resigned to spending that much on it; and live with your choices!! You only live once! Imagine the regrets you'd have if you only ever did things others (effectively random strangers ) approved of?? Do you REALLY need our approval for this?? Sure, some here might bag you a little for your choices, but there are always gonna be haters and those who enjoy bringing others down - STAND UP TO THEM! Be your OWN Person, be Brave! As someone famous once wrote (thanks and apologies to Dr Seuss, borrowed & slightly modified from his 1990 book 'Oh the Places You'll Go!! ):

Today is your day
You're off to great places
You're off and away

You have brains in your head
You have feet in your shoes
You can steer yourself
Any direction you choose
You're on your own. And you know what you know
And YOU are the guy who'll decide where to go AND which Spyder to buy!


Go On, DO IT!! You Know You Want to!

(Make up your mind, that is! )

[Sarge707]

I know you have been looking quite a while and maybe a late season sale could get you a new or leftover Spyder, then you don't have to worry about what was and what was not done. I got my 2015 SM6 for $16,000 in the fall of 2015. No delivery or prep fee back then! If you do get a 2015 SM6 make sure it has the vacuum assist on the clutch. There is a bulletin or something on it. My dealer did it for FREE because I have known him for 25 years.

[blacklightning]

Where are you located? I think location has a lot to do with what type of deals you are able to come across. There is one local that I am considering picking up just for sporting around. It has 28k miles and some extras. It is also a SM6, but it has Corbin bags and a passenger backrest that I would possibly sell if I picked up the bike, just to make it a little more affordable and a better deal. Just not sure what type of funds I could get for the extras. I know the bags are about $2000-$2500. If I could get 1/2 that, I would be happy.

[delkhouri]

I know you have been looking quite a while and maybe a late season sale could get you a new or leftover Spyder, then you don't have to worry about what was and what was not done. I got my 2015 SM6 for $16,000 in the fall of 2015. No delivery or prep fee back then! If you do get a 2015 SM6 make sure it has the vacuum assist on the clutch. There is a bulletin or something on it. My dealer did it for FREE because I have known him for 25 years.

I have been looking for a while. I had a 2019 Ryker Rally that I liked and while mine was reliable, I had some issues with. Specifically, I didn't like the CVT and high rpms. So I sold it to fund a Spyder purchase, but life happened (family medical bills etc.) so things got put on hold. I think budget wise, I need to be in the 10-13k range but I'm in Columbus, Ohio, and for whatever reason I see 2015s closer to the $16k you paid than my budget. Sometimes I see them cheaper, but they usually have high miles, questionable service history, weird farkles/paint jobs, or the sellers are difficult to deal with. Many times, they refuse to give me the VIN to check service history or talk to my credit union.

[broderp]

I can't speak to Can-Am specifically, but to me three things stand out the most:

1. How reliable is the brand/motor? Not to start a war, but I would argue 40K on a Toyota Prius is less wear than 40K on a Chrysler Jeep.
2. How was it maintained? In my mind a 40K engine should have had between 13-15 oil changes and several parts replaced or adjusted/inspected
3. How was it driven? Was that 4.5K per year mostly at the redline or was it on a nice backroads commute?

If the price is right and the above checks out to your satisfaction, I'd make the trip and see if you can get it inspected somewhere. A good mechanic can find things the owner may now even know about or make some good points regarding the potential issues if you get it, such as stale gas/bad gas, clogged filters, old/dirty oil etc. Not to sound like a snob, but the used market is cool if you have the means to replace and repair. In my case, I have been blessed and could get new vehicles. My days of tinkering are long gone. It's new with warranty for me, or not at all, but I miss the days of tinkering and I somewhat envy those who still do. Good luck.

[greer]

delkhouri,

I noticed a '15 F3 SM6 in Mt Juliet, TN listed on FB Marketplace, priced at the low end of your range. I have no affiliation whatsoever, just passing the word. Good luck!

Sarah

Ps: And an S priced the same in Berea, KY.

I like to buy at the end of the season. Folks are generally more negotiable, and I can spend the winter setting the bike up just so.

[delkhouri]

delkhouri,

I noticed a '15 F3 SM6 in Mt Juliet, TN listed on FB Marketplace, priced at the low end of your range. I have no affiliation whatsoever, just passing the word. Good luck!

Sarah

Ps: And an S priced the same in Berea, KY.

I like to buy at the end of the season. Folks are generally more negotiable, and I can spend the winter setting the bike up just so.

I think those are both "S" models. They are on my watch list, but neither are particularly close.
The one I referenced earlier that had the fuel tank flushed, and new spark plugs installed eventually responded and told me the name of the dealership he had it serviced at. When I asked for the VIN to talk to my credit union and check on service history, he refused to give me the VIN stating: "No sir, no info online!"

I don't know if he is scared of being online, or if he is hiding something.

[CopperSpyder]

I have been looking for a while. I had a 2019 Ryker Rally that I liked and while mine was reliable, I had some issues with. Specifically, I didn't like the CVT and high rpms. So I sold it to fund a Spyder purchase, but life happened (family medical bills etc.) so things got put on hold. I think budget wise, I need to be in the 10-13k range but I'm in Columbus, Ohio, and for whatever reason I see 2015s closer to the $16k you paid than my budget. Sometimes I see them cheaper, but they usually have high miles, questionable service history, weird farkles/paint jobs, or the sellers are difficult to deal with. Many times, they refuse to give me the VIN to check service history or talk to my credit union.

Delkhouri, if you will travel 5 hours to the east of you here is a deal I saw on FB. "SOLD

[delkhouri]

Delkhouri, if you will travel 5 hours to the east of you here is a deal I saw on FB. https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...ace_price_drop

That is a pretty good deal. But I don’t like the 2010-2019 RT's. I have tried and test driven them, but I just find them uncomfortable.

[Peter Aawen]

I think those are both "S" models. They are on my watch list, but neither are particularly close.
The one I referenced earlier that had the fuel tank flushed, and new spark plugs installed eventually responded and told me the name of the dealership he had it serviced at. When I asked for the VIN to talk to my credit union and check on service history, he refused to give me the VIN stating: "No sir, no info online!"

I don't know if he is scared of being online, or if he is hiding something.

I'd guess neither of those, instead, he's probably just being computer/internet savvy! After all, he doesn't know you from Adam, and a Vehicle VIN is a powerful tool, especially if in the hands of an unscrupulous person! Check out the Warning Sticky here:

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...e-Public-Pages!

and maybe work with him to try and find a way of getting that report you want without trying to force him to divulge information that, in his mind at this stage, could well see him ending up being ripped off! And don't think it doesn't happen - it DOES . It's even happened to Members here who didn't take that Warning in the Spyder General Discussion sub-forum &/or the Warning in the READ FIRST! Sticky in the For Sale by Owner sub-forum seriously so they divulged info they really shouldn't have!! Thankfully, not many Members have been caught out, & AFAIK no-one has reported being ripped off for a lot of money, but it DOES HAPPEN IF YOU AREN'T CAREFUL - and it sounds like your seller juuust might be being careful & smart...

[Mikey]

Get a phone number and just talk to him, I know it's a novel thing these days to just talk to a person.

[delkhouri]

I'd guess neither of those, instead, he's probably just being computer/internet savvy! After all, he doesn't know you from Adam, and a Vehicle VIN is a powerful tool, especially if in the hands of an unscrupulous person! Check out the Warning Sticky here:

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...e-Public-Pages!

and maybe work with him to try and find a way of getting that report you want without trying to force him to divulge information that, in his mind at this stage, could well see him ending up being ripped off! And don't think it doesn't happen - it DOES . It's even happened to Members here who didn't take that Warning in the Spyder General Discussion sub-forum &/or the Warning in the READ FIRST! Sticky in the For Sale by Owner sub-forum seriously so they divulged info they really shouldn't have!! Thankfully, not many Members have been caught out, & AFAIK no-one has reported being ripped off for a lot of money, but it DOES HAPPEN IF YOU AREN'T CAREFUL - and it sounds like your seller juuust might be being careful & smart...

Maybe I am just being naive here and I am definitely not trying to be argumentative, but what can someone do with a vin other than check service history and recalls etc. Bank info sure keep that private but a vin?

[Sarge707]

If they won't give the vin I would be suspicious? You are the one spending the $$. If they don't want your money then tough.

[Peter Aawen]

Maybe I am just being naive here and I am definitely not trying to be argumentative, but what can someone do with a vin other than check service history and recalls etc. Bank info sure keep that private but a vin?

They can do all sorts of things with a VIN, especially if they have any other info - like the sort of things they may have gleaned off an Ad &/or social media sites or other parts of the internet!! After all, you already know a lot about that Spyder you're looking at, don't you?? Surely you know the manufacturing year, the make & model, the colour, etc, don't you??

Heck, as stand-alone info, it might seem useless you at first glance, but it's not too hard to find out that one of the fellas looking at that Spyder had an old Peterson lighter that fairly recently quit working on them, and they were surprised with the gift of an IM Corona Old Boy lighter by a bunch of friends as a replacement; and that same potential buyer also likes pipe smoking and really enjoys SG FVF and Rattrays Marlin flake tobacco - all info that might appear to seemingly useless and un-related, but nevertheless, it could prove to be valuable to someone who could be trying to pull a swifty &/or rip people off! The crims even have 'dark-web sites' that gather and sell just that sort of seemingly useless info; as well as sites that match it all up to the person concerned in order to see if there's anything they own/have that's worth ripping off!

So, even if you disregard the lighter & tobacco info (or possibly, especially if you disregard that info! ) given all the info that the World likely knows already/has access to about that Spyder, AND a VIN too, a criminal type could do all sorts of things - in fact, if said crim happened to either work in &/or if they don't but they've found someone a bit unscrupulous who does work in a DMV (maybe not even in the same State!) who is prepared to take a bit of cash to ask no questions and push thru some dubious paperwork; it's not such a big stretch to think that they could 'clone' or 'steal' the apparent ownership of that vehicle on the strength of the VIN & other info they've gathered without ever actually having the vehicle in their possession; then they could saaayyyy..... start pulling robberies, racking up tickets, unpaid tolls fees etc. that could eventually all be traced back & charged to the real owner; or maybe they might falsify some paperwork showing them buying that vehicle so that at some stage down track, the THE REAL OWNER ends up being charged with the theft of their own vehicle, causing the vehicle to be 'repossessed' &/or impounded until the ownership/responsibility for all the criminal acts that vehicle has been involved in get resolved!!

Sure, that sorta thing shouldn't happen, but there are crims & criminal organisations out there who spend every waking moment working out all sorts of innovative ways to do things just like that - And it's my understanding that pretty much exactly that ^ scenario outlined above HAS happened over in your part of the World, resulting in the 'real owners' having to prove in court that it REALLY WAS their vehicle, and that all the fines, unpaid tolls etc racked up by the falsely identified vehicle weren't their responsibility, and that it was the other 'owner & registration' was the dodgy one!!

So the fella selling that Spyder is likely following the advice their local authorities give out to try and minimise theft &/or scams during the private selling of any motor vehicles, and YOU asking for unique identifiers of the vehicle they are selling in the way you have, even before you've committed to buying, might be ringing all sorts of alarms, possibly even getting reported as an attempted scam &/or theft!

[delkhouri]

They can do all sorts of things with a VIN, especially if they have any other info - like the sort of things they may have gleaned off an Ad &/or social media sites or other parts of the internet!! After all, you already know a lot about that Spyder you're looking at, don't you?? Surely you know the manufacturing year, the make & model, the colour, etc, don't you??

Heck, as stand-alone info, it might seem useless you at first glance, but it's not too hard to find out that one of the fellas looking at that Spyder had an old Peterson lighter that fairly recently quit working on them, and they were surprised with the gift of an IM Corona Old Boy lighter by a bunch of friends as a replacement; and that same potential buyer also likes pipe smoking and really enjoys SG FVF and Rattrays Marlin flake tobacco - all info that might appear to seemingly useless and un-related, but nevertheless, it could prove to be valuable to someone who could be trying to pull a swifty &/or rip people off! The crims even have 'dark-web sites' that gather and sell just that sort of seemingly useless info; as well as sites that match it all up to the person concerned in order to see if there's anything they own/have that's worth ripping off!

So, even if you disregard the lighter & tobacco info (or possibly, especially if you disregard that info! ) given all the info that the World likely knows already/has access to about that Spyder, AND a VIN too, a criminal type could do all sorts of things - in fact, if said crim happened to either work in &/or if they don't but they've found someone a bit unscrupulous who does work in a DMV (maybe not even in the same State!) who is prepared to take a bit of cash to ask no questions and push thru some dubious paperwork; it's not such a big stretch to think that they could 'clone' or 'steal' the apparent ownership of that vehicle on the strength of the VIN & other info they've gathered without ever actually having the vehicle in their possession; then they could saaayyyy..... start pulling robberies, racking up tickets, unpaid tolls fees etc. that could eventually all be traced back & charged to the real owner; or maybe they might falsify some paperwork showing them buying that vehicle so that at some stage down track, the THE REAL OWNER ends up being charged with the theft of their own vehicle, causing the vehicle to be 'repossessed' &/or impounded until the ownership/responsibility for all the criminal acts that vehicle has been involved in get resolved!!

Sure, that sorta thing shouldn't happen, but there are crims & criminal organisations out there who spend every waking moment working out all sorts of innovative ways to do things just like that - And it's my understanding that pretty much exactly that ^ scenario outlined above HAS happened over in your part of the World, resulting in the 'real owners' having to prove in court that it REALLY WAS their vehicle, and that all the fines, unpaid tolls etc racked up by the falsely identified vehicle weren't their responsibility, and that it was the other 'owner & registration' was the dodgy one!!

So the fella selling that Spyder is likely following the advice their local authorities give out to try and minimise theft &/or scams during the private selling of any motor vehicles, and YOU asking for unique identifiers of the vehicle they are selling in the way you have, even before you've committed to buying, might be ringing all sorts of alarms, possibly even getting reported as an attempted scam &/or theft!

The bank owns the vehicle, there is a payoff, yes he is making the payments but that bank has the title. Also, every dealership out there will post the vin for all cars and motorcycles. I am just saying, I can't check history of the spyder and I can't get a loan without a vin. And without those two things I CAN"T be a buyer. Time to move on.