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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911
I've thru to post #15, and learned a lot .... Thanks ..... That bag has all the fluid from the Spyder. Does anyone know how much fluid is in the .... ABS unit ????? .... thanks ..... Mike
Mike I didn't actually measure how much came out from each point. Something to keep in mind is that the reservoir is quite a distance away from the master cylinder. Much further away on 2020 and up RT's and F3s than on the earlier models. For a complete flush you must move a lot of fluid through the system. The rubber hoses from the reservoir to the master cylinder might even be 3 feet long. What is interesting about the BUDS procedure is that it has you do a manual bleeding of each wheel first. Then when you've done that and told BUDS to start, it had me do the rear wheel first. It tells you how many times to pump the pedal and when to stop. It then had me go to the left front wheel and repeat the pumping. Then go to the right wheel. While doing the right wheel, it also actuated the abs unit many times! When it was satisfied there it told me to go to the abs unit. While doing that I noticed that the rear wheel section of the reservoir was being used at that time. So by using BUDS not only was it flushing all the system, but apparently the front and rear wheel sections of the abs are isolated from each other. Each step of the process required me to pause and refill the reservoir and then top it off again when finished.
2020 RT Limited Deep Marsala Chrome
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Originally Posted by Peter Aawen
You're right about the ' Not 100% uncontaminated' bit, and while it does lower the overall total percentage of water present in your contaminated brake fluid, there's really no ' used to advantage' bit to it at all, cos once it's contaminated at all, it only gets worse from there... It's sorta like adding a dash of petrol to wine or to your beer; if it's a tiny amount, you might not spit it out immediately... but if you then start gradually adding more petrol in the hope of making it taste/become safer, it really doesn't cos just like your Spyder's brake fluid is contaminated with any moisture in it & so degraded somewhat/not working quite as well as it should, once the wine or beer becomes contaminated with any petrol, then even if you don't spit it out immediately it's STILL unsafe and basically no good from there on in! Make Sense??
And Please, don't anyone try that, it really ISN'T safe, it's just an example of how once something that was once drinkable/useable gets contaminated, it becomes bad; and from there on in, no matter how much more contaminant you might add, it only gets worse!!
Good info Peter I'm becoming more Budswisered by the minute
Just on the fluid, is it correct that the makeup of it (read it on a motorcycle forum so no guarantees ) is designed to absorb water rather than repel, hygroscopic is the fancy name I believe.Why the hell would you want that and if you have to have it like so why not just add a dash of WD40 to counteract it?
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Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie
Originally Posted by Cobwebs
Good info Peter I'm becoming more Budswisered by the minute
Just on the fluid, is it correct that the makeup of it (read it on a motorcycle forum so no guarantees ) is designed to absorb water rather than repel, hygroscopic is the fancy name I believe. Why the hell would you want that and if you have to have it like so why not just add a dash of WD40 to counteract it?
I dunno that it was a 'wanted' or 'designed' trait so much as it was something that just happened to come along with creating a liquid that had all the attributes they DID want - and once they got those attributes they DID want, which just happened to make the liquid hygroscopic, they rapidly discovered that they couldn't 'design' that hygroscopic bit out without losing some of the required traits... not even with a dash of WD40!
And just as a gimme for those who might like to know this sorta 'weird & generally useless information', I am aware of a few instances (circumstances?? ...emergencies?? .... largely but not exclusively before the advent of universal ABS ) in remote areas & under extreme need, where beer has been used in lieu of brake fluid in a vehicle's braking system; and to a limited degree, it DOES work - just so long as you don't let it form a head as you fill & bleed the system! The frothy bit WILL compress, while the liquid itself doesn't; so if you can get the liquid beer into your braking system without it foaming &/or forming a head anywhere, there's a good chance that your brakes WILL work.... maybe...; for a short period; if you are going slow enough & so don't need to put very much heat into your braking system..... cos once the brakes do heat up, things deteriorate rapidly! Oh, and once you get back to civilisation, it's sorta imperative that you strip & replace the ENTIRE Braking system & refill/bleed with 'real' brake fluid before relying on on your brakes again, cos the corrosion & gumming up that beer rapidly causes in your braking system is not a pretty sight nor a functional enhancement! I've since been told that it would've been better to have used urine - but that would've only been kidney strained beer anyway, so I'm not too sure 'bout that?!
And NO, while there may be extreme/emergency circumstances where you might get away with using beer (or urine) as brake fluid, there are NO safe circumstances where you can substitute brake fluid for beer that you might want to drink!! Again, I've been told that if you're forced to it, urine might be the better choice, but I'm still not too sure about that!?!
Last edited by Peter Aawen; 03-26-2023 at 06:02 PM.
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Originally Posted by Peter Aawen
I dunno that it was a ' wanted' or 'designed' trait so much as it was something that just happened to come along with creating a liquid that had all the attributes they DID want - and once they got those attributes they DID want, which just happened to make the liquid hygroscopic, they rapidly discovered that they couldn't 'design' that hygroscopic bit out without losing some of the required traits... not even with a dash of WD40!
And just as a gimme for those who might like to know this sorta 'weird & generally useless information', I am aware of a few instances (circumstances?? ...emergencies?? .... largely but not exclusively before the advent of universal ABS ) in remote areas & under extreme need, where beer has been used in lieu of brake fluid in a vehicle's braking system; and to a limited degree, it DOES work - just so long as you don't let it form a head as you fill & bleed the system! The frothy bit WILL compress, while the liquid itself doesn't; so if you can get the liquid beer into your braking system without it foaming &/or forming a head anywhere, there's a good chance that your brakes WILL work.... maybe...; for a short period; if you are going slow enough & so don't need to put very much heat into your braking system..... cos once the brakes do heat up, things deteriorate rapidly! Oh, and once you get back to civilisation, it's sorta imperative that you strip & replace the ENTIRE Braking system & refill/bleed with 'real' brake fluid before relying on on your brakes again, cos the corrosion & gumming up that beer rapidly causes in your braking system is not a pretty sight nor a functional enhancement! I've since been told that it would've been better to have used urine - but that would've only been kidney strained beer anyway, so I'm not too sure 'bout that?!
And NO, while there may be extreme/emergency circumstances where you might get away with using beer (or urine) as brake fluid, there are NO safe circumstances where you can substitute brake fluid for beer that you might want to drink!! Again, I've been told that if you're forced to it, urine might be the better choice, but I'm still not too sure about that!?!
I have witnessed a guy that liked the taste of brake fluid, told him he was mad he just laughed it off said he could stop any time.
Just on the subject of cocktails I wonder how effective Buds is at clearing the bar so one could switch over to silicone fluid and avoid the hangovers associated with the old dot 4 juice.
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Very Active Member
Changing to DOT 5 fluid would be easy. Changing all the rubber components to suit silicone fluid wouldn't be, as they haven't been made for a Spyder.
The best substitute for brains & knowledge is....................silence.
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Originally Posted by Freddy
Changing to DOT 5 fluid would be easy. Changing all the rubber components to suit silicone fluid wouldn't be, as they haven't been made for a Spyder.
Ah crap no wonder a bloke drinks!
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Active Member
So when your pressure bleeding your system, does it not push fresh fluid thru the ABS?
2021 RT LT
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Originally Posted by Isopedella
Many ways to check the fluid.
You can also use a Digital Multi meter.
The procedure.
Set it to volts.
Insert your positive meter probe into the brake fluid while avoiding contact with the reservoir itself. Negative to an earth.
Any reading over 0.30 volts is too much.
Why can’t the probe touch the plastic reservoir? So if I stick the red probe into a glass of water and the black one to ground, I will get a reading of 1.0, or 100% water?
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by DaniBoy
Why can’t the probe touch the plastic reservoir? So if I stick the red probe into a glass of water and the black one to ground, I will get a reading of 1.0, or 100% water?
The probes I saw on e-bay ( $ 2.00 ) looked to be approx. 1/2 in. ..... That will be enough for me to submerge without the plastic touching. ..... I dis-connected my gas shock about a decade so my seat ( RT ) opens 3 or 4 times as far as normal. This allows me great access to the reservoirs. It's not difficult to un-do the shock ..... good luck .... Mike
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by UtahPete
I'd like to do the job properly but don't have access to BUDS. Is there anyone with the tools and knowledge to perform this within a days' ride of Salt Lake City?
Pete there are 4 dealers that close to you. Young Power Sports in Centerville, Moto United in Draper, Karl Malone in SLC, and Karl Malone in Provo. I have used Young's and was happy with their work, also used Moto United and been happy there. When Maone's in SLC was High Adventure, I used them a lot also but then they were the only one around, I don't know about now under the new management. Hope this helps.
Last edited by pegasus1300; 03-27-2023 at 11:39 AM.
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by DaniBoy
Why can’t the probe touch the plastic reservoir? So if I stick the red probe into a glass of water and the black one to ground, I will get a reading of 1.0, or 100% water?
Why can’t the probe touch the plastic reservoir? - I guess the reading is from the fluid to the earth and not the fluid and the cup.
So if I stick the red probe into a glass of water and the black one to ground, I will get a reading of 1.0, or 100% water? Never tried it.
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Originally Posted by pegasus1300
Pete there are 4 dealers that close to you. Young Power Sports in Centerville, Moto United in Draper, Karl Malone in SLC, and Karl Malone in Provo. I have used Young's and was happy with their work, also used Moto United and been happy there. When Maone's in SLC was High Adventure, I used them a lot also but then they were the only one around, I don't know about now under the new management. Hope this helps.
Hi Paul. Thanks for that. I just don't trust dealers any more. Never know if they're going to do it right and on time and for a fair price or not.
2014 RTL Platinum
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I KNOW THIS MAY SOUND CRAZY BUT....
If you do not have the proper tools to do a job DON'T do it.
Play it safe and have the dealer do it and assume the responsibility and liability
if they screw it up. How often do you change all the brake fluid on your car ? and
they have ABS as well. Some times Chicken Little is wrong, the sky isn't falling
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I think the brake fluid issue is/was more driven as a result of liability issues. I don't exactly recall but I think it may have started with Harley. I have been told that normal/regular vehicle service on police vehicles does not include brake fluid replacement. With that being said, I have been told that the fluid is replaced on a police vehicle after it has been involved in a prolonged high speed pursuit. The reason is that the high temps being reached by the wheel cylinders degrade the fluid from performing as intended. Because these vehicles are safety vehicles more attention is given to them than normal citizen's vehicles. The only time I'm aware of where normal citizen's vehicles receive new fluid is during a brake shoe/pad replacement. And then it's not a total replacement. Just police cars and race cars get a total replacement. But, everyone has their own opinion.
Last edited by 2dogs; 03-27-2023 at 03:51 PM.
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So if my front brakes are constantly screeching, would I benefit from a brake fluid replacement job? 2021 RTL with about 5500 miles.
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Originally Posted by ollicat
So if my front brakes are constantly screeching, would I benefit from a brake fluid replacement job? 2021 RTL with about 5500 miles.
Brake pads would be my guess over fluid problems.
2020 RTL Chrome, Marsala Red "Non-Directional Tires, Centramatic Balancers"
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Originally Posted by PJveetwin
So when your pressure bleeding your system, does it not push fresh fluid thru the ABS?
Indeed it does. The issue is that BUDS cycles (opens & closes) the tiny solenoid valves, allowing them to be flushed too.
The best substitute for brains & knowledge is....................silence.
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Originally Posted by ollicat
So if my front brakes are constantly screeching, would I benefit from a brake fluid replacement job? 2021 RTL with about 5500 miles.
Might just be something lodged in your brake pads. Try hitting the brakes hard in reverse a few times as fast as you can safely go. Usually clears it. Don't try anything fancy, these things are like a drunken sailor in reverse.
Last edited by Peter Aawen; 03-27-2023 at 08:21 PM.
Reason: ' 's ;-)
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by Jetfixer
I work on friends' bikes as a side hussle to my main job. Since I try to be fair, I tell my friends to find out what a dealer would charge for any given service and I'll do it for half. This person called a local dealer and was told it was a 5 hour job and would cost $700. I told her that was BS and I'd do it for $175. An independent motorcycle shop told her (without using BUDS) that it would be $175-200, plus $19.99 for DOT 4 fluid. Really? A quart of DOT 4 at Wally World is less than $8. And yes, I'm 1/2 hour south of you.
Well Jetfixer and forum.... I have a worse story than that quoted above. Went to Ridenow (nationwide) dealership to get my state inspection. As they do inspections, they checked the moisture content in my reservoir. Written on paper, "2.5% recommend brake flush soon." This is NOT my normal dealership, as I bought from one north of me, this is just the closest convenient one to me.
So labor is $841.50!! 5.1 hrs quoted (sounds like story above) plus $32.97 for fluid, for a total price of $874.47!! SORRY, NO WAY.
So Jetfixer, I will be coming to your DIY garage!!! I had on my agenda to flush the fluid this spring anyhow. I am just 50 miles from NC/SC border on I77, so won't be much farther to your house. AND to earn EXTRA money, I need a key programmed. Dealership price was $79, not too bad, but they were trying to program it, desk tech came back to me "let me see if they're done". Comes back, "He needs to call BRP, can't get key to program yet." Well, they're working on the issue, already made me late to have to go to work the afternoon shift, didn't want to be even later, so I told him, have to get home to go to work. So I can just have Jetfixer earn some extra money, now this is nice CLEAN money, don't have to get your hands dirty.
Last edited by Peter Aawen; 03-29-2023 at 07:38 PM.
Reason: Caps & ' 's ;-)
2015 Spyder RT Ltd- bUrp - only add the "U", 2010 Honda NT700V-red,2010 Honda NT700V-silver retired @201,111 miles, 1997 Honda PC800, 1996 Honda PC800, Honda CT500, Honda Shadow 500, 1978 Suzuki GS550, 1973 Suzuki TC125, other assorted smaller bikes, Suzuki TM400
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Originally Posted by Freddy
Changing to DOT 5 fluid would be easy. Changing all the rubber components to suit silicone fluid wouldn't be, as they haven't been made for a Spyder.
DOT 5 and ABS don't play well together...at all. DOT 5 is designed for vehicles expected to see little or sporadic use ie...military equipment, classic vehicles.
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Active Member
Does the ABS on the Spyder go through a self check on start up like a car? I was just wondering if so could we use this to our advantage.
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Something triggered in my mush pot and reminded me of these guys. They have a unit to activate the ABS for flushing Harleys. They do custom stuff so could do one for Spyders but $500! Maybe a group buy situation or something.
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=0e7b9...0LzMxNS8&ntb=1
Last edited by Peter Aawen; 04-01-2023 at 01:15 AM.
Reason: ' 's ;-)
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Originally Posted by Cobwebs
Just on the subject of cocktails I wonder how effective Buds is at clearing the bar so one could switch over to silicone fluid and avoid the hangovers associated with the old dot 4 juice.
Originally Posted by Freddy
Changing to DOT 5 fluid would be easy. Changing all the rubber components to suit silicone fluid wouldn't be, as they haven't been made for a Spyder.
Yes, the actual changeover would be relatively easy, but be aware that DOT5 brings its own problems.
As noted several times in this discussion alone, moisture that finds its way into a DOT3 or DOT4 system will eventually contaminate the entire system. DOT5 fluid does not absorb moisture, so it merely collects at the lowest point. That 'lowest point' might happen to be a caliper, which will be the hottest point on a long, downhill section of road. Using the brakes heats the pads, which then transfer the heat to the brake pistons and calipers, then the fluid. If that fluid happens to be water, it can easily turn to steam, meaning that you basically will NOT have any braking power.
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by Steve W.
..... If that fluid happens to be water, it can easily turn to steam, meaning that you basically will NOT have any braking power
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That's not strictly true. Dual circuit braking system were introduced half a century ago to minimise, if not eliminate, the chance of brake failure happening. Braking performance and 'feel' would be significantly reduced.
Some vehicles, where the brake lines run close to exhaust pipes, will exhibit brake failure in 1 circuit due to boiling (if the system hasn't been maintained as recommended), while the other circuit (usually the front) functions normally except for the fact that the brake pedal goes half way or a tad more to the floor before applying. A bit scary but not no brakes at all.
Last edited by Peter Aawen; 04-01-2023 at 01:17 AM.
Reason: Fixed quote display ;-)
The best substitute for brains & knowledge is....................silence.
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Originally Posted by Steve W.
Yes, the actual changeover would be relatively easy, but be aware that DOT5 brings its own problems.
As noted several times in this discussion alone, moisture that finds its way into a DOT3 or DOT4 system will eventually contaminate the entire system. DOT5 fluid does not absorb moisture, so it merely collects at the lowest point. That 'lowest point' might happen to be a caliper, which will be the hottest point on a long, downhill section of road. Using the brakes heats the pads, which then transfer the heat to the brake pistons and calipers, then the fluid. If that fluid happens to be water, it can easily turn to steam, meaning that you basically will NOT have any braking power.
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Good info to know. Sometimes I think Fred Flintstone thought he had the best setup and would have been in awe of the arrival of cable operation. What next for us.................... magnetics???
Last edited by Peter Aawen; 04-01-2023 at 01:17 AM.
Reason: ' 's ;-)
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