What experiences have you had with Lithium Batteries?

[Mikey]

I bought into the Lithium IRON Kool Aid when I had left my Ducati for about a year no charging, and it started right up. The Shorai battery is OE in my Ducati. I have since put a 6 volt in my 1981 Honda C70 with electric start no problems. I have one waiting to go in my 1959 Harley FLH which has been converted to 12 volt but is a generator system, shall see how that works out. I also have one ready to go into my 2003 Harley sportster. They weigh next to nothing, are smaller than OE, can get different sizes though. I get mine and chargers for Shorai from Battery Mart. I will change to them as I replace in all my bikes. The Shorai comes with sticky foam to take up excess space in battery compartment. The only thing is they hibernate a bit in coooold weather and sometimes need to turn lights on to wake them up. Who rides in cold anyway?

When do you find time to ride all those nice bikes!!!

[Sputter]

When do you find time to ride all those nice bikes!!!

I don't! I put about 140 miles on the Ducati, 20 miles on The Honda C70, 90 miles on the Harley sportster and 110 miles on my Spyder approximately this year. I have a 2014 Harley Fatboy that has 42 total miles on it, 59 FLH has 150 miles since restoration over 15 years ago. my 2013 Harley Road glide has under 3000 miles. I need to thin out the herd! Wasn't much decent weather this year and I have been under the weather.

[larryd]

There is a saying; "He who dies with the most toys is the winner" Your in the running...

I too was in the "running"...But In the last two years my herd got thinned out significantly...

Old age, along with aches & pains have started to take over...

Fortunately I still get up everyday and do "what I want," "if I want," & "how I want"...

ENJOY EVERYDAY

[Sputter]

There is a saying; "He who dies with the most toys is the winner" Your in the running...

I too was in the "running"...But In the last two years my herd got thinned out significantly...

Old age, along with aches & pains have started to take over...

Fortunately I still get up everyday and do "what I want," "if I want," & "how I want"...

ENJOY EVERYDAY

I am right there with you! I am ready to thin out, too much work and $$ to take care of them. Almost easier to get a girlfriend, NAAAAAAAA!!

[BajaRon]

I am right there with you! I am ready to thin out, too much work and $$ to take care of them. Almost easier to get a girlfriend, NAAAAAAAA!!

I'd just take the 'Thin' if I could get it. Was a time I was thin no matter what. Now, it seems, I'm FAT no matter what! What happened?

[Sputter]

I'd just take the 'Thin' if I could get it. Was a time I was thin no matter what. Now, it seems, I'm FAT no matter what! What happened?

We don't go there Ron

[IdleUp]

Lion batteries have a built-in recharge counter with a limit on the number of recharges. When it's reached, no more charging. That may be what you have encountered. I don't know if Lion vehicle batteries have the same thing but I suspect they do.

Hello there is no such thing as counters for charging - most lithium batteries for cars bikes etc. will last 8-10 years and still work. The biggest problem is the alternator voltage is set at a lower level voltage for AGM lead gel. Lithium requires a higher voltage.

Mike
www.rvvolt.com

[AZ4U2C]

...The battery in my RT surprised me by failing with no warning. I could not quickly find a LiIon in the stores and I didn't want to wait for it to come from Amazon. I purchased a Duracell AGM at Batteries + Bulbs.

As I understand it, this is the way that LiIon batteries typically fail – with little or no warning.
This is just about a non-starter (no pun intended) for me.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Hello there is no such thing as counters for charging - most lithium batteries for cars bikes etc. will last 8-10 years and still work. The biggest problem is the alternator voltage is set at a lower level voltage for AGM lead gel. Lithium requires a higher voltage.

Mike
www.rvvolt.com

It looks like things have evolved over the past 15 to 20 years. Google didn't come up with any hits to support my assertion. What I can tell you is there definitely was a limit on the number of recharge cycles permitted on the battery in the IBM Thinkpad laptop I had about 15 years ago. The battery app would show how many recharges had been given the battery and how many were left. The user manual explained the existence of the limit on number of recharges.

[EdMat]

Hello there is no such thing as counters for charging - most lithium batteries for cars bikes etc. will last 8-10 years and still work. The biggest problem is the alternator voltage is set at a lower level voltage for AGM lead gel. Lithium requires a higher voltage.

Mike
www.rvvolt.com

I know some of my drone batteries had the battery counting charge cycles and would not charge after x,xxx charges, don't remember the number now. Think a couple of my Dell laptops did the same.

[SamSpade66]

Something has to turn the alternator in order to generate electricity. In a gas engine vehicle it's the engine that does that. An all electric like the Tesla has no engine to turn the alternator.

Umm, I'm pretty sure the tesla motor turns the drive wheels so it could probably turn an alternator! Turning an alternator is the least of the problems!

[hypurone]

I have had a Shorai in mine for about 5yrs now. I use a Deltran Tender on it (not specific to Li, and Deltran has stated their Tenders are up to the task for LiFePo and Li) and have had ZERO problems with it. My rides have several starts in them (usually about 6 starts) as I have to stop often for pain reasons...

The PRIMARY thing about LiFePo or Li-Ion is the "cell balance" and what all the chatter about a specific charger is around. Although this is primarily the BMS's job within the battery, a specific charger is better able to work with that system to discharge any higher cells and then charge up the lower cells so you have an even charge across ALL cells and at optimum charge.... NOTE: some chargers only do this "maintenance" cycle when specifically selected, otherwise it is a basic "Tender"....

[RickWB]

I have 2, 100 amp l2 volt lithium batteries in my travel trailer. They have a 10 year warranty, so considerably better than lead acid or AGM. Charge source for them is the truck alternator (which I doubt is set up for lithium batteries), my on board converter, which has a setting for lithium, and my roof mounted solar panel, with a setting on the charge controller for lithium. Lithium charges to over 14 volts, so greater than the output of the truck alternator, but assisted by roof solar, or converter when plugged in.

I would think a battery tender for lithium batteries would in essence be similar to the on board inverter in the trailer, which would 'top-off' the batteries.

[hypurone]

I have 2, 100 amp l2 volt lithium batteries in my travel trailer. They have a 10 year warranty, so considerably better than lead acid or AGM. Charge source for them is the truck alternator (which I doubt is set up for lithium batteries), my on board converter, which has a setting for lithium, and my roof mounted solar panel, with a setting on the charge controller for lithium. Lithium charges to over 14 volts, so greater than the output of the truck alternator, but assisted by roof solar, or converter when plugged in.

I would think a battery tender for lithium batteries would in essence be similar to the on board inverter in the trailer, which would 'top-off' the batteries.

Modern Alternators/regulators easily charge to 14.4 and even higher on some systems IF the batteries within the system are rated for it. I have seen output at 15.2 on my 2019 Chevy Blazer when running heated seats, heated steering wheel, HVAC etc... If your batteries can "accept" the charge without high resistance to it, then the charging system will output it. It will drop as resistance in the batteries rise...

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Umm, I'm pretty sure the tesla motor turns the drive wheels so it could probably turn an alternator! Turning an alternator is the least of the problems!

You could, but why would you? You'd simply be using electricity from one on-board source, the battery, to generate electricity to be used in some other on-board device.

[Jetfixer]

Here's what I have. Some good answers to your questions on their website. BMS built in. Great warranty. Also, their Genius chargers have a Lithium mode for keeping your Spyder on the charger. The NLP20 is the size for our Spyders.

https://no.co/products/lithium/powersport

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Milwaukee tool Lion batteries have a charge cycle counter in them. The warranty baseline is 1000 cycles. If a battery craps out before 1000 cycles or two years it's replaced. Before 1000 cycles and in years 3, 4, and 5 it's prorated. The date of first charge is recorded in the battery monitor chip. There is no mention of blocking recharges after xxx cycles.

[BajaRon]

Hello there is no such thing as counters for charging - most lithium batteries for cars bikes etc. will last 8-10 years and still work. The biggest problem is the alternator voltage is set at a lower level voltage for AGM lead gel. Lithium requires a higher voltage.

Mike
www.rvvolt.com

A lower volt charge for a lithium battery is not really a problem. You won't get to 100% charge. But your Lithium battery will last quite a bit longer if only charged to 80%. Always charging to 100% (and then letting it sit without using it) are what tend to kill this kind of battery. An 80% charged lithium battery will outperform a similar AGM at 100% charge. This disparity increases drastically in cold weather where an AGM may not provide more than 20% of capacity when cold.

And, as mentioned. Many charging systems now have the capacity to charge a lithium battery at the higher voltage to obtain 100% charge. The one thing you want to avoid is a charger or maintainer that has a Pulse system. Designed to desulfate a led acid battery. Pulse chargers can destroy a lithium battery in short order. I think some are doing this without realizing it and blaming the Lithium battery for not holding up.

Lithium, like many other things, have come a long way. But still live with a stigma that has pretty much gone the way of the Dodo bird.

[UtahPete]

I don't understand. If the LiPo battery needs a special charger, how does the vehicle charging system designed for a conventional battery work ?
If the battery is dead, can you jumo it using a conventional jump pack or jumper cables to another vehicle ??

A conventional charger won't charge above 13 volts typically and usually less, like 12.6. A Lithium charger will go to about 14.2v, which is what it takes to fully charge a lithium battery. Your onboard charging system will take it to about 12.8, which is enough to keep the electronics lit and replace the energy lost to the starter motor.

For best results from a lithium battery, keep it on a maintainer designed for lithium.

You can 'jump' it with anything that will power the starter motor (12 volts), but remember to charge it up properly with a lithium charger first chance you get, or you're going to lose the benefit of having a lithium battery.

[FrogmanDave]

This inquiring mind wants to know. If a Lithium-Ion battery can be put in a Spyder and the alternator keeps it charged, why can’t an alternator be put into an all electric car such as a Tesla rather than having to plug into an electric outlet?

Something has to turn the alternator in order to generate electricity. In a gas engine vehicle it's the engine that does that. An all electric like the Tesla has no engine to turn the alternator.

Tesla's do not have alternators. Here's why. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Np1Ixd7FWzI It's a 20 minute watch, but it's your time if you choose to learn. Jeremy Fielding is an excellent teacher!

[BajaRon]

A conventional charger won't charge above 13 volts typically and usually less, like 12.6. A Lithium charger will go to about 14.2v, which is what it takes to fully charge a lithium battery. Your onboard charging system will take it to about 12.8, which is enough to keep the electronics lit and replace the energy lost to the starter motor.

For best results from a lithium battery, keep it on a maintainer designed for lithium.

You can 'jump' it with anything that will power the starter motor (12 volts), but remember to charge it up properly with a lithium charger first chance you get, or you're going to lose the benefit of having a lithium battery.

Always maintaining a Li-ion battery in a fully charged condition will shorten its lifespan.

[EdMat]

Tesla's do not have alternators. Here's why. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Np1Ixd7FWzI It's a 20 minute watch, but it's your time if you choose to learn. Jeremy Fielding is an excellent teacher!

He has another one that deals with airplane tires. He does a bit of comparison between a car, truck and airplane as far as construction and the need for different tire pressures. Some Spyder riders might benefit from watching it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=af5_QCafS8o

[Peter Aawen]

Just be careful not to start discussing what various governments should or shouldn't do, or you might run afoul of the 'No Political Posts (or comments) allowed Rule'... and that'd be a shame, both for the person making the comment/post & for the otherwise interesting discussion.

Thanks for everyone's forbearance & consideration.

[Peter Aawen]

Since this thread seems to have wandered waaayyy off topic, here's a reminder people:

What experience have owners had with Lithium Batteries? Are they better? do you need a battery maintainer for them? Does it need to be a special maintainer?

So going forward from this, we are no longer discussing anyone's political &/or environmental thoughts or concerns re Lithium batteries or any other items; and the topics/points that can be discussed here are as follows, or will at least have some point relating to/associated with the remaining earlier posts/comments in this thread & in line with the following:

• your experience with Lithium batteries powering your Spyder/Ryker;
• are these batteries better for your Spyder/Ryker than wet-cell/AGM batteries;
• do you need a battery maintainer for them when installed in/on your Spyder/Ryker; and
• will a Lithium battery in/on your Spyder/Ryker need a special battery maintainer?

Some off topic posts previously posted have already been removed; any further off topic posts will also be removed without notice; and any repeat offenders posting off topic posts will be dealt with iaw the Forum Rules! So please, keep your posts on & pertinent to the topic as above!

[ARtraveler]

Since this thread seems to have wandered waaayyy off topic, here's a reminder people:



So going forward from this, we are no longer discussing anyone's political &/or environmental thoughts or concerns re Lithium batteries or any other items; and the topics/points that can be discussed here are as follows, or will at least have some point relating to/associated with the remaining earlier posts/comments in this thread & in line with the following:

• your experience with Lithium batteries powering your Spyder/Ryker;
• are these batteries better for your Spyder/Ryker than wet-cell/AGM batteries;
• do you need a battery maintainer for them when installed in/on your Spyder/Ryker; and
• will a Lithium battery in/on your Spyder/Ryker need a special battery maintainer?

Some off topic posts previously posted have already been removed; any further off topic posts will also be removed without notice; and any repeat offenders posting off topic posts will be dealt with iaw the Forum Rules! So please, keep your posts on & pertinent to the topic as above!

x2