Increasing Visibility?

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Just got an email from Kisan.

We do make P115W-T4-CanAm for dual projector style headlight of the Spyder. It is a plug-in version with 5-pin matching plugs.

This product is not currently listed on the website because it's out-of-stock.

If you send me details of your LED replacement bulbs and contact info, I can look into it more and keep you updated.

Andy
sales@kisantech.com

[cruisinTX]

I use a Kisan modulator . . . .

IMO and experience modulators work because people's brains respond to changing conditions and tend to ignore static conditions. A modulator creates motion that brains are more likely to respond to. When people say, "I didn't see him," they very well actually may not have. Remember, we see with our brains. Eyes are just a data input source to the brain. Brains are biologically programmed to give lower priority to static images than moving images. A motorcyclist heading down the road is a somewhat static image to someone looking down the road. Also, a brain sees moving images frame by frame. Turning your head may cause a gap to appear between frames. A narrow image such as a pedestrian, bicyclist, or m/c rider may be narrow enough that it falls in between frames the brain is processing. In that case it is a true physiological fact the person did not see the ped or biker.

Some additional physiological reasons supporting your statements can be found in studies relating to "inattentional blindness". (https://www.apa.org/monitor/apr01/blindness) This whole seeing with your brain vs. seeing with your eyes is spot on and one reason I'm 100% opposed to any kind of distracting device in vehicles. Even with hands-free phones that you never look at, if your brain is focused on the conversation, you can still "not see" what's right in front of you.

[2dogs]

Distracted driving is just that, no matter how you try to paint it otherwise. Being seen on a motorcycle, or spyder starts at home. It's dubbed defensive driving, and 99% of us are alive today because we learned how to use it. Mostly we acquired it from those close calls we've all encountered. Can you imagine what those iron butt guys go through just trying to get into the top three positions?

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Some additional physiological reasons supporting your statements can be found in studies relating to "inattentional blindness". (https://www.apa.org/monitor/apr01/blindness)

Very interesting article. What's scary is just how much of what we 'see' is ignored by our brains. Inattentive driving is only one reason of why motorcyclists are not seen. My comments above are based on this article by an RAF pilot who is also a rider. https://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/raf-...each-cyclists/

Distracted driving is just that, no matter how you try to paint it otherwise.

The fact the human brain ignores part of the visual data it receives is not distracted attention. Distracted driving is when you focus on something other than the process of driving, like looking at your radio controls or talk on the phone.

Being seen on a motorcycle, or spyder starts at home. It's dubbed defensive driving, and 99% of us are alive today because we learned how to use it.

Absolutely the best thing we can do. But keep in mind, the same phenomenon that causes a car driver to not see a bicyclist or motorcyclist affects us as well. How many times have you ridden a road for the umpteenth time only to say, "I don't remember driving past that service station I was going to stop at," or, "Was there a speed limit sign back there?"

[2dogs]

Very interesting article. What's scary is just how much of what we 'see' is ignored by our brains. Inattentive driving is only one reason of why motorcyclists are not seen. My comments above are based on this article by an RAF pilot who is also a rider. https://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/raf-...each-cyclists/


The fact the human brain ignores part of the visual data it receives is not distracted attention. Distracted driving is when you focus on something other than the process of driving, like looking at your radio controls or talk on the phone.


Absolutely the best thing we can do. But keep in mind, the same phenomenon that causes a car driver to not see a bicyclist or motorcyclist affects us as well. How many times have you ridden a road for the umpteenth time only to say, "I don't remember driving past that service station I was going to stop at," or, "Was there a speed limit sign back there?"

I believe what you are getting at here is what's called "daydreaming." Along with all the other distractions daydreaming is just as serious and dangerous as the others.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I believe what you are getting at here is what's called "daydreaming." Along with all the other distractions daydreaming is just as serious and dangerous as the others.

It's worse than that. Daydreaming is thinking about other things other than the task at hand. We can daydream while we're riding or driving because of the automatic processing our brain does of translating what we see into the actions necessary to deal with it. This is discussed very well in a PBS documentary called, "Hacking Your Mind." https://www.pbs.org/show/hacking-your-mind/ This other issue deals with information that enters our brains but is ignored or discarded immediately and thus does not get translated into action.

[2dogs]

Years ago an insurance company conducted a study (I don't recall the name of the company) whereby they found that professional drivers had the ability to identify react and avoid obstacles and hazards without thinking about them and while thinking about something else, and often not remembering the defensive actions they'd taken. These professional drivers were racecar drivers, truck drivers, police, ambulance drivers, and the like. When debriefed after their participation and performance many simply responded with, it is just part of the job. I could guess that some long-distance commuters could develop the same skills and mindset.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Years ago an insurance company conducted a study (I don't recall the name of the company) whereby they found that professional drivers had the ability to identify react and avoid obstacles and hazards without thinking about them and while thinking about something else,

From what I remember from the documentary this would fall into the category of habit. Repeat something often enough and it becomes part of our autopilot brain process.

[MONK]

I've heard it called "muscle memory". I carry (like an American Express card, I never leave home without it). I've drawn enough (mostly training) that my pistol ends up in the exact same spot in front of me every time I present. I don't have to think about it, I just do it. But....if you don't use it, you lose it. If I stop training, at some point when I present, my pistol could end up anywhere with the wrong grip pointed at the wrong target, etc.

One of the things I've always been taught (and it works very well), as you're riding (or driving your cage), every time you see a potential issue (deer/dog on the side of the road, truck tire tread (i.e. alligator) in the road, car in front of you, as you're passing a car, even as you adjust yourself in your seat, think..........."what would I do". What would I do if that deer/dog ran out in the road? What would I do if that alligator was in my lane? (Is there room to swerve? Is someone on my bumper so I can't slam on the brakes?) What would I do if that car I'm passing starts to swerve in my lane? What would I do if I'm adjusting myself and my foot slips? Every scenario has multiple responses but if you can train your mind to quickly (without thinking) react, that split second you save not having to think of a response might be enough to avert tragedy. Another example, when I was driving a truck, if I saw someone at a cross road, I had my hand next to the air horn lanyard. If they started to move, I hit the air horn. (In a few of my trucks, I had train horns. THAT will wake someone up! ) Always know what you're going to do before the situation presents itself.

Watch for little things, too. You're about to pass a car. Are there kids in the back? Can you see the driver on his/her cell phone? Have you noticed the car hasn't stayed in the center if the lane? Or watch the cars wheels when you're passing them at an intersection. If the wheels are turning even a little bit (i.e. creep), it's not fully stopped and the driver may not have his/her foot on the brake. One errant sneeze and that car could come flying into the intersection.

My point is twofold. 1) Always prepare for the possibilities, no matter how remote they seem. 2) Look for the little things.

[2dogs]

My point is twofold. 1) Always prepare for the possibilities, no matter how remote they seem. 2) Look for the little things.[/QUOTE]

Dam good MONK. You've touched upon things that 90% of the folks out there are totally oblivious to.

[Gwolf]

I've heard it called "muscle memory". I carry (like an American Express card, I never leave home without it). I've drawn enough (mostly training) that my pistol ends up in the exact same spot in front of me every time I present. I don't have to think about it, I just do it. But....if you don't use it, you lose it. If I stop training, at some point when I present, my pistol could end up anywhere with the wrong grip pointed at the wrong target, etc.

One of the things I've always been taught (and it works very well), as you're riding (or driving your cage), every time you see a potential issue (deer/dog on the side of the road, truck tire tread (i.e. alligator) in the road, car in front of you, as you're passing a car, even as you adjust yourself in your seat, think..........."what would I do". What would I do if that deer/dog ran out in the road? What would I do if that alligator was in my lane? (Is there room to swerve? Is someone on my bumper so I can't slam on the brakes?) What would I do if that car I'm passing starts to swerve in my lane? What would I do if I'm adjusting myself and my foot slips? Every scenario has multiple responses but if you can train your mind to quickly (without thinking) react, that split second you save not having to think of a response might be enough to avert tragedy. Another example, when I was driving a truck, if I saw someone at a cross road, I had my hand next to the air horn lanyard. If they started to move, I hit the air horn. (In a few of my trucks, I had train horns. THAT will wake someone up! ) Always know what you're going to do before the situation presents itself.

Watch for little things, too. You're about to pass a car. Are there kids in the back? Can you see the driver on his/her cell phone? Have you noticed the car hasn't stayed in the center if the lane? Or watch the cars wheels when you're passing them at an intersection. If the wheels are turning even a little bit (i.e. creep), it's not fully stopped and the driver may not have his/her foot on the brake. One errant sneeze and that car could come flying into the intersection.

My point is twofold. 1) Always prepare for the possibilities, no matter how remote they seem. 2) Look for the little things.

Yeah, it is good to always have a plan, but even the plans don't always work. The things you do can make other people zone out. I was driving a big straight job and lucky for everybody involved, I was coming back empty. If I had 15 or 20 tons more it would have been much worse. A car came from a side road, looked straight at me bearing down on them, and pulled out to go across the main road. I got on the air horns and the brakes at the same time. Come skidding up, leaving rubber on the road and barely squeezed behind the car in the wrong lane. The car had got right in my lane and stopped when I hit the horns. It was a little old blue haired lady and she just sat in my lane and stared wide eyed while I slid around her and back down in the ditch on the right side of the road. If she had just hit the gas and went on across or had stopped before she got in my lane, it wouldn't have been a problem. I got the truck straightened out and got out. She hit the gas and took off down the side road. I guess she needed to hurry home and clean her panties out.

[Peter Aawen]

With that - lights & horns and even sirens are all very good... IF they don't cause the other driver/s to stop or freeze or simply fail to take any avoiding action!! So please, when it does happen, and there's every likelihood that it will happen.... one day.... then as described above, try to aim to go BEHIND the vehicle that's just pulled out in front of you &/or stopped when you hit the brights &/or horn &/or any other warning/stopping/alerting device you might have!

The number of times I've seen the 'unfortunate result' of people 'avoiding' by swerving to try and pass IN FRONT of those vehicles astounds me & really boggles my mind It's basic relative velocity.... if they are likely to/going to move in any direction, in almost all circumstances, it REALLY IS NOT GOING TO BE BACKWARDS - so you NEED to think & even practice (safely) if you can, avoiding by aiming to go BEHIND them - unless of course, that means running head on into something else!! Don't do that - it almost never ends well!! But even if you do end up hitting the offending vehicle, since most cars on the road these days are front engined, the mass you hit will generally be less at their rear end, which means you're more likely to 'spin them around their CoM' or at least move them sideways a bit & by doing so, lessen the impact on you/your machine! It might not be very much at all, but if it's the difference between life & permanent injuries or even death, then every little bit really counts!!

So if you have no choice but to manoeuvre to avoid some vehicle, try to AIM BEHIND!

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

So if you have no choice but to manoeuvre to avoid some vehicle, try to AIM BEHIND!

Interesting comment, Peter. The autopilot program in our brain that we're born with must make us go past in front. I wonder why. Two times in my life I've done it, once when I was 20 and once about 6 months ago. In the long ago situation a known drunkard turned left as I was coming toward him. He stopped just a bit over the center line and I went past in front of him. I went off the asphalt and swerved back quickly to avoid a bridge abutment just ahead and put the car into a 180° slide with the back end crunching the abutment on the other side. The second time I was on my Spyder and a car pulled onto the highway from the right heading toward me. I went around the front of him in the wrong lane just as he stopped. In both cases my automatic reaction was to go where the space looked to be clear. Maybe that's the program. Our autopilot says head for the open space and don't waste time doing calculations of the other's movement.

In the second case one could argue my modulating headlight didn't help, but then again maybe it did. I really think he was so focused on waiting for the traffic coming from the other direction to clear he didn't look my way, or his brain blocked out the image of me because of his focus on the other way.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I was just thinking. The OP maybe should have titled this thread "Capturing Attention." That really is what we want to achieve. As Mike has pointed out you can visible as hell and other drivers still don't see you.

[ozarkryder]

As for modulators, I got a Spyderpops bumpskid with the LED lights, and found that Spyderpops sells a remote controller that changes the brightness and pattern of the LEDs. During the day I set it to emulate the headlight modulator - it does not flash at that setting, but actually does modulate, as it doesn't completely turn off. A little video in this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlVqyLoG3h4 At night I set the LEDs to steady on and 25% brightness. Along with the headlights, fender tip lights, fog lights and the bumpskid lights, the front end is pretty lit up. I have added the Spyderpops rear LED light kit that increased rear visibility. Still ride like they don't see me though.


There is a motorcycle store out of Canada called Fortnine that has a series of entertaining and informative videos. This one called "Invisibility Training for Motorcyclists" goes over many of the reasons why we are not seen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x94PGgYKHQ0

[ARtraveler]

With that - lights & horns and even sirens are all very good... IF they don't cause the other driver/s to stop or freeze or simply fail to take any avoiding action!! So please, when it does happen, and there's every likelihood that it will happen.... one day.... then as described above, try to aim to go BEHIND the vehicle that's just pulled out in front of you &/or stopped when you hit the brights &/or horn &/or any other warning/stopping/alerting device you might have!

The number of times I've seen the 'unfortunate result' of people 'avoiding' by swerving to try and pass IN FRONT of those vehicles astounds me & really boggles my mind It's basic relative velocity.... if they are likely to/going to move in any direction, in almost all circumstances, it REALLY IS NOT GOING TO BE BACKWARDS - so you NEED to think & even practice (safely) if you can, avoiding by aiming to go BEHIND them - unless of course, that means running head on into something else!! Don't do that - it almost never ends well!! But even if you do end up hitting the offending vehicle, since most cars on the road these days are front engined, the mass you hit will generally be less at their rear end, which means you're more likely to 'spin them around their CoM' or at least move them sideways a bit & by doing so, lessen the impact on you/your machine! It might not be very much at all, but if it's the difference between life & permanent injuries or even death, then every little bit really counts!!

So if you have no choice but to manoeuvre to avoid some vehicle, try to AIM BEHIND!

You are right on Peter. The problem is that we tend to follow our line of site. Most don't look at the back end. I did it to avoid a Moose that came out of the tree line and headed across the road in front of me. I had to think "back end, back end" and it worked. Had I went to the front, I might not be here typing this. I was also lucky that there were no oncoming cars, because I would have been toast.

[Possible]

"I was also lucky that there were no oncoming cars, because I would have been toast."

Therein, IMO, lies the problem with "steer to the rear". We were always taught to steer in the direction of no traffic. So in the
USA, you steer to the right, towards the ditch, verge, shoulder, rather than to the left into oncoming traffic, regardless of the
front/rear of possible impact. Granted it isn't always possible, but it's always in the back of your mind: "Steer away from traffic".

I'd rather hit a something relatively stationary, rather than a fast moving vehicle coming in the opposite direction.

[2dogs]

I'd rather hit a something relatively stationary, rather than a fast moving vehicle coming in the opposite direction.

Yes, by all means, choose the path that offers the least resistance, if you have the time. Riding a dirt bike is a great exercise for the brain when it comes to quickly picking the path of least resistance.

[Motorcycledave]

I am an old bike rider that's a new Spyder rider. I realize that the bigger frontal area of the Spyder makes it more visible to those that might pull out into your path but have been turning on the fog lights as well to increase visibility.
Anybody else use fog lights? Any downside to this practice?

Mine are always on
I never turn them off, I also added LED super bright lights up front
Dave

[Snoking1127]

Wear hi viz gear.

We took that advice from our friend with a GW trike.