BRP "Sytstem" resulting in lost customer

[canamjhb]

My bike is at the dealer for work for the 3rd time in a little over 2 years of my ownership. Here is my perspective of what I believe to be a systematic death for BRP. First, each time I needed work, the bike was in the shop for at least a month. I don't blame the dealer. They have other lines and are very busy. They have only one Spyder Tech and I think he is pretty good. The problem is that everything on the Spyder must be done by one of their certified techs using their proprietary parts and systems. This completely stifles competition. Secondly, Dealers do not stock ANY parts. They all must be ordered and take 3 days to a week to get. I have not been able to locate even one independent shop in the entire Phoenix area that will even look at a Spyder. Even Can-Am dealers not carrying the Spyder line will touch them. Timely service doesn't exist here. It's not that we are at the busy season. For us, that is winter for the rest of the country. This time of year we don't ride much because of the 100-115 degree temperatures.

Background on this repair: I went for a ride to Winslow, AZ (to stand on the corner) in mid-April. All was well. On May 3rd I decided to ride to the store as the bike hadn't been ridden in a couple of weeks. Bike overheated before I could get 150 feet out of the driveway. Put it away and called the dealer. Not able to look at it until today!!!!! As I suspected it is a thermostat which is part of the water pump housing. That has to be ordered and the next available date to buy the techs time is June 15th. So, a month and a half for a water pump replacement. Poor system. Not customer friendly. And it is just the monopoly that I think BRP thrives on fostering. Warranty expires in 2 weeks. This will be my very last BRP product. BRP, you created a monopoly that requires proprietary diagnosis, products, and mechanics. That's your business model and you can live with it. I will not.

Rant Over..... Jim

[SuperG]

The more things change, the more they stay the same. I remember waiting over 3 months to get a Harley dirt bike fixed back in the 70's. If you're the one with the unusual bike, you have to wait in line for the "unusual" tech to come available. That said, I'm glad my can-am dealer here is a large one.

[2dogs]

BRP's dealer network is without a doubt their weakest link. I learned the lesson long ago; don't buy a John Deer tractor if you don't have a dealer near by with parts and a mechanic available to keep it running in a timely manner. Granted, a tractor costs 20/30 times as much as a spyder but the principal idea is still the same. If it won't move under it's own power it's worthless at that point.

[Easy Rider]

That's your business model and you can live with it. I will not.

Rant Over..... Jim

I hear that Goldwing trikes are really nice.
And breakdowns are infrequent.
And dealers are plentiful.
You might even like the overall ride better.

Just some rumors I heard, mind you !!

[Batmobil-F3]

An alternative for motorcyclists is certainly the Yamaha Niken. Perhaps next year Honda will finally be able to launch the Neowing on the market. You can find a good overview of trikes here: https://thekneeslider.com/category/t...otor-vehicles/

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I hear that Goldwing trikes are really nice.
And breakdowns are infrequent.
And dealers are plentiful.
You might even like the overall ride better.

Just some rumors I heard, mind you !!

" dealers are plentiful " - I have heard quite a bit of complaints from GoldWing owners that have " TRIKED " their Wings …. like dealers don't want anything to do with them …… in fact I've heard of Warranty claims were denied …… Folks here worry about using Auto tires on their Spyders …. I think Trikeing a Goldwing is a much bigger change ….. just sayin ….. Mike

[jcthorne]

I hear that Goldwing trikes are really nice.
And breakdowns are infrequent.
And dealers are plentiful.
You might even like the overall ride better.

Just some rumors I heard, mind you !!

Goldwing trikes are aftermarket only and most of the dealers will not touch one. The few that will work on them will not do warranty service. You are on your own.

As bad as BRP service can be, its about as good as the industry can currently provide on a factory trike. I truly wish BRP would get bought up by HD.....

[jcthorne]

The Niken is not an alternative to a Spyder. Its a motorcycle with extra front traction. None of the stability of a reverse trike at all.

[jbim]

Before my 2018 F3L, I had a BMW R1200R. Great bike. I bought it at the largest motorrad dealer in Toronto. I took it in to have them reset the computer for a service minder. Doing so, they wiped out the whole computer and I had to wait two weeks for Germany to send the proper codes to reinstate the original setup. In the process, I had asked them to not do the oil change because I figured I would do it myself at season closing. Well they did the oil change and charged me for it. I bought five bikes from this dealer over the years. I became so disappointed with BMW, I won't even consider their cars or any other product.

At the end of the day, it is always a people's business. You need people who care and are competent in their field.

Good luck with your issue.

J

[Highwayman2013]

My bike is at the dealer for work for the 3rd time in a little over 2 years of my ownership. Here is my perspective of what I believe to be a systematic death for BRP. First, each time I needed work, the bike was in the shop for at least a month. I don't blame the dealer. They have other lines and are very busy. They have only one Spyder Tech and I think he is pretty good. The problem is that everything on the Spyder must be done by one of their certified techs using their proprietary parts and systems. This completely stifles competition. Secondly, Dealers do not stock ANY parts. They all must be ordered and take 3 days to a week to get. I have not been able to locate even one independent shop in the entire Phoenix area that will even look at a Spyder. Even Can-Am dealers not carrying the Spyder line will touch them. Timely service doesn't exist here. It's not that we are at the busy season. For us, that is winter for the rest of the country. This time of year we don't ride much because of the 100-115 degree temperatures.

Background on this repair: I went for a ride to Winslow, AZ (to stand on the corner) in mid-April. All was well. On May 3rd I decided to ride to the store as the bike hadn't been ridden in a couple of weeks. Bike overheated before I could get 150 feet out of the driveway. Put it away and called the dealer. Not able to look at it until today!!!!! As I suspected it is a thermostat which is part of the water pump housing. That has to be ordered and the next available date to buy the techs time is June 15th. So, a month and a half for a water pump replacement. Poor system. Not customer friendly. And it is just the monopoly that I think BRP thrives on fostering. Warranty expires in 2 weeks. This will be my very last BRP product. BRP, you created a monopoly that requires proprietary diagnosis, products, and mechanics. That's your business model and you can live with it. I will not.

Rant Over..... Jim

So you leave your dealer blameless? I know my dealer does a lot of boats and PWCs this time of year so it may take a while to even get an oil change. Your dealer should be a little more proactive in diagnosing your problem and ordering your parts. Not sure how a dealer can stock every part. BRP is not totally to blame in this situation.

[Navydad]

Unfortunately this type of issue isn't just a BRP issue. I have owned many different brands in my years of riding and I can give a similar account about them all and that includes my cars and trucks. I have a good dealer that does his best with my Spyder issues, but they aren't perfect. The best I have ever dealt with was the dealership that sold me my 2014 Triumph Trophy. Too bad they don't sell Spyders.

[canamjhb]

I agree with a lot that has been said in response to my rant. But I think some aren't getting my point. The dealer has invested in (1) technician who is qualified to diagnose and work on Spyders. He does other things too but Spyders are his main duty. Spyders comprise a very small part of the dealer's overall sales so to invest in more people to be able to work on them makes no sense. I think BRP has hamstrung it's dealer network (and we, the customers) by producing vehicles that REQUIRE the use of their own proprietary diagnostic systems, technicians, parts, etc. Independent shops are available for virtually any other brand of MC. But BRP has, it think purposely, made it next to impossible for anyone outside their proprietary network to effectively provide good service/repair for our Spyders.

My uneducated diagnosis of my bikes problem was a failed thermostat. I gave the technician all the information I knew and he confirmed my diagnosis is a short time. The problem that I am having is the fact that it takes a month or longer to complete each repair no matter what the repair is. This has been my experience EVERY time the bike has been in the shop.

By contrast, a couple of years ago my BMW Z4 needed a new water pump. It was done in one day at an independent shop (at about 1/2 the cost a BMW dealer wanted). I still own a Goldwing and it is always serviced by an independent shop, D&D Discount Motorcycles. I have more confidence in them than ANY Honda dealer I have ever encountered. I have never had to wait for any parts or experienced any prolonged waiting period to obtain service.

My point is the consistency of poor timely customer service is driving me away from the BRP brand. And I place the responsibility for that squarely in the hands of BRP..... Jim

[Navydad]

I agree with a lot that has been said in response to my rant. But I think some aren't getting my point. The dealer has invested in (1) technician who is qualified to diagnose and work on Spyders. He does other things too but Spyders are his main duty. Spyders comprise a very small part of the dealer's overall sales so to invest in more people to be able to work on them makes no sense. I think BRP has hamstrung it's dealer network (and we, the customers) by producing vehicles that REQUIRE the use of their own proprietary diagnostic systems, technicians, parts, etc. Independent shops are available for virtually any other brand of MC. But BRP has, it think purposely, made it next to impossible for anyone outside their proprietary network to effectively provide good service/repair for our Spyders.

My uneducated diagnosis of my bikes problem was a failed thermostat. I gave the technician all the information I knew and he confirmed my diagnosis is a short time. The problem that I am having is the fact that it takes a month or longer to complete each repair no matter what the repair is. This has been my experience EVERY time the bike has been in the shop.

By contrast, a couple of years ago my BMW Z4 needed a new water pump. It was done in one day at an independent shop (at about 1/2 the cost a BMW dealer wanted). I still own a Goldwing and it is always serviced by an independent shop, D&D Discount Motorcycles. I have more confidence in them than ANY Honda dealer I have ever encountered. I have never had to wait for any parts or experienced any prolonged waiting period to obtain service.

My point is the consistency of poor timely customer service is driving me away from the BRP brand. And I place the responsibility for that squarely in the hands of BRP..... Jim

I get it. My buddy owns an independent shop where I occasionally work to help on busy days. He won't touch a Spyder because he has no way to get parts other than through a BRP dealership, no wholesale place to buy from and he can't have a down machine sitting for weeks in his small shop. The investment he would need to make in order to work on a Spyder isn't worth it. He wouldn't see a profit for a long time, probably years. The machines complexity doesn't scare him, it's the initial cost to get into the business that keeps him away. My point is that this is not strictly a BRP issue. He won't touch the newer HD's or BMW's either for the same reason. Things like tires and oil changes we can handle, anything above that just isn't worth the investment to deal with. He gets a lot of business from older bikes that the dealer refuses to work on. Parts are available and it doesn't take $$$$ invested in software and parts to repair these machines. The dealership where I bought my RT has two good techs and they are usually struggling to keep up, but as you stated the business won't support that third tech. BRP has lost your confidence and has lost you as a future customer. BMW has done the same with me and for the same reasons. I get that it can be cost prohibitive to stock parts in inventory, but why isn't there a system in place to get that part in a day or two rather than weeks or even months?

[3whlLefty]

"I get that it can be cost prohibitive to stock parts in inventory, but why isn't there a system in place to get that part in a day or two rather than weeks or even months?"

This strikes me as a very valid point. I'm in a situation very much like the OP AND in the same city. We have a 50/50 chance of being at the same shop. I'm waiting for a radiator overflow bottle. If these 2 Spyders are taking up floor space plus XX others we have not heard about, that's a cash flow problem for the dealer at best. Maybe not the same for BRP tho. With all the rec. vehicles they have across North America they s/b motivated to have a good parts system in place.

It's been implied that my part should be in today. Now I'm really wondering. Standing Bye.

[stmike 1800]

I can order from my local auto parts store and get parts over night,why can BRP not do this ?

[bikerbillone]

Interesting thread, I'm aware that some, maybe even most BRP shops are inundated with Canam work, and whatever other products that they sell. In my city horror stories abound about their shop work. I talked to the shop manager and he went great length to tell how the shop operation had improved since he took over a manager, and the horror stories are still out there. Now, I can tell you that my 2005 GW/2012 Road Smith Conversion, is an outstanding piece of equipment, but it ain't perfect. Service is a problem because of the age and because it's a trike. On a road trip you hope nothing breaks, if it does it is pucker time. Nobody wants to touch it, call a dealer shop, not only do they not want to talk to you, most are even rude in telling you to go somewhere else. At home, I have my independent guy that I depend on, and he's not close, but at least he's there and can fix whatever is wrong.

[Highwayman2013]

I suspect a Ridenow dealer in the mix here. Try here for parts:https://www.cheapcycleparts.com/lp2?...dels#&panel1-1 I stand by my statement that if the dealer had diagnosed your problem sooner they could have ordered the parts and been ready to repair your Spyder sooner.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

No DEALERS in the entire auto industry stocks 99.9999999999% of the parts they use ….. they can't afford it... 40 years ago veh's shared parts …. not any more. …. Getting parts in a timely fashion ….. if Cheapcycleparts can send you most parts in a couple of days …. BRP should actually be able to do better, after all they BUILD spyders ….. just a thought …. Mike

[gom]

its not BRP with our problem its the dealer only one tech, if they are that busy they need to hire a new tech

[2dogs]

I see it as a people problem, not a parts availability problem. Too many inexperienced people involved using a clogged system with too many choke points. I can get on the phone with cheap cycle parts and can have the part I need in hand in less than a week. On the flip side it takes a week just for a dealer's service department to locate a part number and get the dam thing ordered, two weeks at best to receive it, and then they put you in line to install the part and that may be another week or two if you are lucky.

[h0gr1der]

I tried something with my dealer.

My 2018 RTL is experiencing the dreaded parking brake not releasing issue. Once it sits awhile it clears up, leaving only the code behind. So in anticipation I called my dealer parts department and asked them if they have in stock a #278003071 control gear motor (commonly called the parking brake motor) and a #710006574 Left Housing Switch, Automatic. They did have the motor, but were back-ordered until June 3rd on the switch housing. I need to schedule a warranty fix, and strongly suspect the motor, because each time the bike recognized the brake had been released as it didn't beep when I tried (unsuccessfully) to drive off.

So, as a small litmus test, if the dealer isn't stocking, or have on backorder the very parts that are failing the most, you have to wonder if they're really doing as good as they can to serve the customer. If they don't carry the common wear items, like brake pads, belts, etc., I'd consider a change of venue. Just my $0.02

[Easy Rider]

… in fact I've heard of Warranty claims were denied ……

That should NOT be a problem if the conversion is DONE by a Honda dealer.

A lot of the ones I've seen converted were out of warranty anyway.

[UtahPete]

BRP's dealer network is without a doubt their weakest link.

It's not set up for servicing road bikes.

[canamjhb]

I suspect a Ridenow dealer in the mix here. Try here for parts:https://www.cheapcycleparts.com/lp2?...dels#&panel1-1 I stand by my statement that if the dealer had diagnosed your problem sooner they could have ordered the parts and been ready to repair your Spyder sooner.

You are completely missing my point. The dealer was able to diagonose the problem within an hour! Getting the techs time to get TO my bike took over 3 weeks. Then they WOULD NOT order the new water pump/thermostat assembly until after they opened a "case" with BRP and confirmed warranty coverage. This process took 28 days. Again, the diagonosis happened quickly. The dealer is at the mercy of getting parts directly from Canada (BRP). I understand you and I can get parts quicker from Cheap Cycle Parts but the dealer cannot! Now the parts are ordered and I am in line (again) for the tech. I have an appointment for the techs time to put my bike back together in 2 weeks. Hopefully the parts are here by then. It is the process that BRP fosters that is driving me away. A month and a half to RR a water pump assembly is unacceptable. After the bike is fixed I plan to keep it. That is, until the next hickup. If and when that happens, I will get the bike fixed and you will see it for sale on this forum. And, no. Ride Now is not involved. I will not set foot in any of their stores.... Jim

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

And it is just the monopoly that I think BRP thrives on fostering. Warranty expires in 2 weeks. This will be my very last BRP product. BRP, you created a monopoly that requires proprietary diagnosis, products, and mechanics. That's your business model and you can live with it. I will not.

And you don't think that Ford, GM, Volvo, Lexus, and so on, do the same? Especially with their newer cars with advanced electronics.