1st oil change

[Aufgeblassen47]

Most OEMs and oil companies would disagree with you as would oil analysis results upon which the recommendations are based. Time does matter. Combustion products cause acids to form over time. These do damage to metals.

Time with miles. NOT time w/o miles!

Acids form due to COMBUSTION byproducts. An engine simply sitting, obviously not running does NOT built up acids! So If your oil change interval is 10,000 miles, and you put 2,000 miles per year on it, you need to change after 5 years. This is plain and simple, an easy to understand basic truism.

I had an RV that must have had a bad oil ring. It took a quart of oil every 500 miles. The normal oil change interval was 5,000 miles for 10 quarts of oil. This meant every 5,000 miles it got 10 quarts of FRESH oil. Consequently, I NEVER changed the oil!!! I simply changed the filter every 5,000 miles.

There is NOTHING unique about my method. Some big rig trucks do the same; they have an oil reservoir, and periodically they dump a certain amount of oil into the fuel system for burning, add fresh oil, and oil is literally NEVER changed! Just periodically filters are changed.

BTW: With my big rig Volvo truck (which REQUIRED 20,000 mile oil changes w/conventional oil), once I went 130,000 miles w/o a single oil change! I accomplished this using a high quality synthetic oil, periodic oil analysis & changing the three (3) oil filters every 30,000 miles.

My Volvo truck had over 1,000,000 miles when I sold it.

[Gwolf]

I have pdf copy of the repair and service manual for the 2018-19 F-3 models. This is the the shop manual with all the maintenance procedures in it. It says first inspection - 3,000 miles , replace oil and filter. I am going by the shop manual on all the inspections and preventative maintenance.

[KC61]

Here's a fairly recent article on the new Diesel Oil's, this may make you reconsider the Diesel oil in the Ryker

https://tech.drivenracingoil.com/buy...l-oil-changed/

[Aufgeblassen47]

Here's a fairly recent article on the new Diesel Oil's, this may make you reconsider the Diesel oil in the Ryker

https://tech.drivenracingoil.com/buy...l-oil-changed/

A non-issue, as during "break-in" our engines are using the factory oil. As long as the diesel oil has the latest gasoline "S" rating (currently SN), it is quite appropriate to use.

[Rob Rodriguez]

I do what Sarge does with everything. I go strictly by miles for oil changes. Been doing this for 30 years with no issues yet

[jcthorne]

Time with miles. NOT time w/o miles!

Acids form due to COMBUSTION byproducts. An engine simply sitting, obviously not running does NOT built up acids! So If your oil change interval is 10,000 miles, and you put 2,000 miles per year on it, you need to change after 5 years. This is plain and simple, an easy to understand basic truism.

I had an RV that must have had a bad oil ring. It took a quart of oil every 500 miles. The normal oil change interval was 5,000 miles for 10 quarts of oil. This meant every 5,000 miles it got 10 quarts of FRESH oil. Consequently, I NEVER changed the oil!!! I simply changed the filter every 5,000 miles.

There is NOTHING unique about my method. Some big rig trucks do the same; they have an oil reservoir, and periodically they dump a certain amount of oil into the fuel system for burning, add fresh oil, and oil is literally NEVER changed! Just periodically filters are changed.

BTW: With my big rig Volvo truck (which REQUIRED 20,000 mile oil changes w/conventional oil), once I went 130,000 miles w/o a single oil change! I accomplished this using a high quality synthetic oil, periodic oil analysis & changing the three (3) oil filters every 30,000 miles.

My Volvo truck had over 1,000,000 miles when I sold it.

NO this is NOT how it works at all.

I will concede if you change the oil and store the engine unused, time is not much of a factor. BUT, using your example of 2000 miles a year with regular use, the oil needs changing at the end of a year. The acid build up occurs over time ONCE THE COMBUSTION BYPRODUCTS HAVE CONTAMINATED THE OIL. It starts with the first use of the engine after the oil change and continues no matter if its run further or not. True, further use makes the contamination worse but the acid formation occurs while the engine is sitting still from reaction with the contaminants that got there during the engine run cycle. ALL OEMs and lubricant manufactures as well as thousands of used oil analysis reports bear this out and have the same time OR mileage recommendation. GM goes further and incorporates engine load and temps into its calculations for the oil life monitor (a very interesting SAE paper is available on that system if you look into it.).

Please do not continue to recommend practices against well studied industry findings and in violation of warranty requirements. You may of course do what ever you wish with your own equipment. Oil is far cheaper than engines....and they still fail occasionally.

[Gwolf]

I just go by miles. In Florida there is no reason you can't ride 12 months of the year. Always run up the miles long before the time comes due.

[Aufgeblassen47]

The acid build up occurs over time ONCE THE COMBUSTION BYPRODUCTS HAVE CONTAMINATED THE OIL. .

But ABRUPTLY STOPS when an engine is NOT running for a hour, for a day, or for 6 months. Yes, the acid comes from combustion. But NO NEW acid is add hence pH of oil stops changing whilst engine is not running.

[tibadoe]

I keep it simple and at a minimum go by what the manual says: Miles or Time (which ever comes first). But I admit I change out the oil and filter much more frequently on all my engines - but then again I like doing the services myself.

[CENTAUR]

Agreed, the owner/operator manual is very vague on the maintenance intervals, and the info is spread throughout the manual instead of being condensed into a traditional table format. Another thing to note is that you need to refer to the online manuals as the de-facto reference, and NOT the printed version that came with the bike. You can find the updated manuals here: http://www.operatorsguides.brp.com/Index.aspx Click on the top-left menu and select "Roadster", and then drill down from there.

My shop agreed that the 6000 interval listed in the manual is a little bizarre. I always change the oil in my new bikes long before the first "official" interval... usually around 300-800 miles, depending on the engine type. After that, it's every 3K for larger motors, and 1.5-2K for smaller motors.

I sent mine back to the dealer to have the sway bar installed, and I asked them to go ahead and do the first oil change at ~600 miles. I will return at 3000 and then every 3K for the next few changes (while under warranty). After that, I will be doing all of the maintenance at 3K intervals.

One thing to note about the oil changes. My Rally stunk of burning oil like crazy after its first change. I took it back to the dealer the following day and asked them to fix my stinky bike. Apparently, the tray under the motor can catch a LOT of oil spillage during the maintenance, and mine had almost a half-quart or more slinging around under there. The tech that did my service didn't realize that there was a lot in there, and it was blowing up onto the manifold and lower engine case... smoking and stinking like crazy. They had to pull the lower tray and completely degrease everything under there. It still stinks after another 600 miles, but it's tolerable.

Here is the breakdown of the oil service parts and fees:
$ 3.59 420552280 O-RING
$ 2.59 420950141 RING-SEALING
$14.39 420956123 FILTER-OIL
$41.36 779133 OIL 4T 5W40 SYNTH BLEND QT (x4)
$ 9.99 420230920 O-RING
--------
$71.92 Parts total
$74.80 0.8 hr SHOP LABOR
====
$146.72 TOTAL

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QM

Did you get a look at the oil they removed from your trike? Was it dirty and full of junk?
CENTAUR

[jcthorne]

But ABRUPTLY STOPS when an engine is NOT running for a hour, for a day, or for 6 months. Yes, the acid comes from combustion. But NO NEW acid is add hence pH of oil stops changing whilst engine is not running.

That was my point. The reaction does not stop once the combustion byproducts have contaminated the oil. It does continue to slow with no new contaminants but it does not stop when the engine does. Its a function of time.

[Aufgeblassen47]

I keep it simple and at a minimum go by what the manual says: Miles or Time (which ever comes first). But I admit I change out the oil and filter much more frequently on all my engines - but then again I like doing the services myself.

That's fine if it makes you "feel good". But you are wasting time & money, and being environmentally unfriendly in the process.

[KC61]

They way they recycle oil now I don't see a problem in changing it when ever you want. I do all my oil changes and take a 5 gallon bucket of used oil to the auto parts when full.

[Zoot]

Take off 2 bolts under, take off filter, Drain Oil, Put bolts back on, put new filter on, add oil (See Manual for amount).

Getting at those two bolts under the engine is the trick.

[jcthorne]

That's fine if it makes you "feel good". But you are wasting time & money, and being environmentally unfriendly in the process.

While the oil may cost money, there is nothing environmentally unfriendly about changing oil. Unless you dump used oil on the ground. Almost all of it is recycled in one form or another. I can tell you that ALL of our waste oil here at our shop gets put to great use.

[Aufgeblassen47]

That was my point. The reaction does not stop once the combustion byproducts have contaminated the oil. It does continue to slow with no new contaminants but it does not stop when the engine does. Its a function of time.

Can you provide any documentation to this theory? Thanks!

[jcthorne]

Can you provide any documentation to this theory? Thanks!

How about you provide some documentation of your theory that runs contrary to API recommendations, all major lubricant companies, OEM equipment manufactures and the whole reason total base number is even analyzed on used oil analysis. You are the one coming on a forum espousing to ignore industry practice because you feel the whole world is out to cheat you. How about providing some documentation of your claims. Anecdotal evidence that you have gotten away with skirting required maintenance is not acceptable. Only research studies by accepted industry standards or recognized authorities in the lubricants industry.

[Aufgeblassen47]

How about you provide some documentation of your theory that runs contrary to API recommendations, all major lubricant companies, OEM equipment manufactures and the whole reason total base number is even analyzed on used oil analysis. You are the one coming on a forum espousing to ignore industry practice because you feel the whole world is out to cheat you. How about providing some documentation of your claims. Anecdotal evidence that you have gotten away with skirting required maintenance is not acceptable. Only research studies by accepted industry standards or recognized authorities in the lubricants industry.

I'm sure my Volvo engine had an arbitrary X amount of time interval too. But it was fine well over a year's use.

It is a FACT that the oil companies make more money, changing oil sooner/unnecessarily than when it is actually worn out.

[QuasiMotard]

Did you get a look at the oil they removed from your trike? Was it dirty and full of junk?
CENTAUR

Unfortunately, no... I dropped it off and they did the service in the background. The one thing that I did learn from the process is that it's messy and, if not done properly, it will make your bike smoke and stink for days. The windage tray under the motor is in the spill/splash zone during the oil change, so it can catch a lot of oil. The shop didn't realize this until I took it back to them... so they updated their procedures and advised the techs to watch out for that problem.

--
QM

[Aufgeblassen47]

Did you get a look at the oil they removed from your trike? Was it dirty and full of junk?
CENTAUR

If it were "full of junk" your engine would have/have had catastrophic failure!

[TNRyker]

I am planning on following the manual and even taking it in for them to stamp and sign the maintenance blocks on the manual. So later on there's no excuse on why they wouldn't cover something under warranty....

[Aufgeblassen47]

I am planning on following the manual and even taking it in for them to stamp and sign the maintenance blocks on the manual. So later on there's no excuse on why they wouldn't cover something under warranty....

Your receipt is good enough proof.

[Markubis]

The acids that accumulated during run time stay suspended in the oil, and if the oil sits in the engine for too long the acids WILL affect the engines internal components over time.

[Highwayman2013]

The acids that accumulated during run time stay suspended in the oil, and if the oil sits in the engine for too long the acids WILL affect the engines internal components over time.

That's why oil has a Base additive, no acid can form in normal use. I would not wait five years to change oil. I did have oil go over a year and 9,600 miles in our F3L and it was still fine after being analyzed, no breakdown, no acid.

[Aufgeblassen47]

The acids that accumulated during run time stay suspended in the oil, and if the oil sits in the engine for too long the acids WILL affect the engines internal components over time.

Your TBN (Total Base Number) of is not going to change/lower one iota while engine is just sitting, as NO NEW ACIDS are added to the oil from combustion. As long as your TBN is high enough whilst sitting (i.e. change your oil at recommended MILEAGE intervals) , it is a basic truism that there is NO deterioration of internal engine components - plain & simple!