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2015 Spyder RT-S, 16,000 Miles
Just happened to me in the right-turn lane at a major highway. :-(
Half hour baking in the sun waiting on the tow (which AMA wouldn't cover because I couldn't call from the membership card at the time).
Happy to at least understand what the problem was.
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The yellow locktite they use is reusable and you can check your torque to 95 lbs.Mine was tite and inside pulley toast. If you remove the bolt, clean it with acetone and use blue locktite and retorque. Chances are you will not be able to slide the pulley off if you loosen the belt, took a 3 jaw puller on mine, but I had red dust. Used the 648 locktite and will keep a eye on it, only 3 bolts to check it. You can google the yellow locktite they use and it is a good read. Stronger than blue and not as strong as red.
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Very Active Member
If I were going to use Loctite it would be the one developed for this for this sort of application - 660 with 7471 primer and leave for 24hrs after assembly to allow for full cure
http://www.loctite.com.au/3320_AUE_H...=8802627715073
Last edited by Freddy; 08-07-2018 at 02:18 AM.
The best substitute for brains & knowledge is....................silence.
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if there is a next time, may be 660. we will see in 12k miles.
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Torque Setting
Originally Posted by Bruce B
The torque settings are: 92ft lbs or 125Nm
If this joint is loctited I do not suggest you check torque without a fresh application of loctite. Twisting the nut or bolt will destroy the loctite bond...
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by zuni
Left side of the bike below the front sprocket. My collection of metal shavings that should have made up the splines of the sprocket.
CJ JAX
Originally Posted by zuni
Trust you gut folks, sometimes you get a feeling that something is not quite right. Take a second to check it out. Jumping around on either RT or F3s or F3t left me questioning if I could feel something or it was imagination. Yesterday the splines on the front sprocket had finally worn enough that it spun on the shaft. Less than 9,000 miles. Not happy but the timing could have been worse, much worse. Had I been trying to pass on a two lane road or make a left turn across traffic when it failed I would have been left hanging. It is something worth keeping an eye on. Take a small flashlight and peek behind the cover that is in front of the rear sprocket. There is a small pan underneath that filing will collect on. Additionally since the shavings have become "charged" they stick to other metal parts and will even stand up in the tray. A one minute check could give you an idea if you have a problem or need a closer examination. The failure also explained why my belt kept creeping and needing adjustment.
Now the waiting game. No dealer appointments until a week from tomorrow and they won't order parts until they see it and verify with BRP that it is warranty. Wonder if this is a part or build issue. This was the first F3s delivered in FL. I only have 9k on it and I know others have more. Curious.
CJ JAX
I was confused too because the Original Post says "in front of the rear sprocket."
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Active Member
Originally Posted by zuni
Happening on 2015 and 2016 models in the F3 line. I have only heard of one RT model that has had the issue.
CJ JAX
My 2016 RT Limited Sprocket failed at 21,500 miles. Just got it back from the Shop a week ago. It was there 2 months before the Dealer repaired it under Waurentee. I lost most of my Summer on the Spyder, but I bought a Harley Heritage to ride diring the uncertain down time. Always wanted a Harley, so the Spyder failure motivated me to buy one. Owning my 2nd Spyder RT has taught me to always keep a spare ride in the garage!
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by 007james
My 2016 RT Limited Sprocket failed at 21,500 miles. Just got it back from the Shop a week ago. It was there 2 months before the Dealer repaired it under Waurentee. I lost most of my Summer on the Spyder, but I bought a Harley Heritage to ride diring the uncertain down time. Always wanted a Harley, so the Spyder failure motivated me to buy one. Owning my 2nd Spyder RT has taught me to always keep a spare ride in the garage!
That is just sad ,two months of down time . Some heads need to roll ,ether at the dealer or BRP .
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Active Member
Originally Posted by stmike 1800
That is just sad ,two months of down time . Some heads need to roll ,ether at the dealer or BRP .
Yes, it was sad, but the Dealer was already 6 weeks out in service Bookings when I dropped it off because the whining and grinding noise was so bad, I thought I had problems in either the Clutch or Tranny. The Dealer first thought they would have to remove the engine, but eventually found the Sproket failure. At the very last few days before I got the Spyder back, I did email BRP, and complained. They reviewed my Case, and awarded me 4 extra months on my Factory Waurentee for my 2 months down time and stress. So, all in all, the Moral of the story is, as most Spyder Owners outside of Canada know, we must have the Patience of Job to Buy, Own, and retain a Spyder, and even upgrade to a new one as I did. The facts are, Spyders are high maintence Technical Vehcles, and the Dealer Networks are scarce, and BRP Factory Certified Techs are even scarcer! But let’s face it,...we need them more than they need us, or the few of us that complain, at least. I just had my Spyder Dealer put new tires and brake pads on my Harley! So, looks like they still own my business,...and like it! HaHa
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Originally Posted by fantabstic
I have under 8000 mile on my 2015 F3S. Heard a weird noise too and took bike into Sun sorts in Ft. Myers. I told them about the red dust by the front sprocket and they said all belt driven bikes have that. Where does red oxide come from from a black belt? They said it was my belt tensioner and replaced it. I still had the noise of the sprocket (grinding like a bad bearing) when I decelerated. They said that noise is common with the spyder and I told them that if I heard that kind of noise before I would not have purchased it in the first place! I asked for the Service Manager, as you can not talk directly to the technician. He rode it and put it back in the shop. They had to heat up the sprocket to get it off and the splines were damaged, as well as the shaft. See attached pictures. Three things to think about...if you see red oxide by the front sprocket bring in you bike. Two..Ask for a service manager if you don't agree with what you are hearing. Three...buy the extended service warranty. Costs so far is over $2,500 and that does not include what they may find when they take out the shaft. I will keep you posted. I am 2 weeks without a bike now and it looks like another 2 weeks for sure.
BRP should cover it, as it is a known issue. They covered me even though I was out of warranty.
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Very Active Member
Last edited by Highwayman2013; 09-12-2018 at 07:27 PM.
2016 F3 Limited
2019 Ryker Rally
2014 Suzuki V Strom 650
2020 CSC TT 250
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Very Active Member
By the look of the pulley splines in the first pic it appears to me that the engagement of the splines is toooo shallow.
The best substitute for brains & knowledge is....................silence.
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stranded
yes we did have the same issue around 20,500 miles (2015 rt limited). in our case the bolt was loose causing the spline failure. left my wife stranded about 10 miles from the dealership. they did come out & pick up our spyder..this is the better half,s bike I still have 2 wheels...our dealer did a "good will" replacement (no cost for the sprocket). did have to cover the labor...I could not get an answer whether replacing the drive belt last season could have been a factor-(would not answer if the front sprocket needs to be removed when replacing the belt) My thought was it properly torqued? (shop told me 92 lbs of torque)..going forward I will be checking the torque myself often..cannot imagine this part failing in some bad situation...
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by fantabstic
I have under 8000 mile on my 2015 F3S. Heard a weird noise too and took bike into Sun sorts in Ft. Myers. I told them about the red dust by the front sprocket and they said all belt driven bikes have that. Where does red oxide come from from a black belt? They said it was my belt tensioner and replaced it. I still had the noise of the sprocket (grinding like a bad bearing) when I decelerated. They said that noise is common with the spyder and I told them that if I heard that kind of noise before I would not have purchased it in the first place! I asked for the Service Manager, as you can not talk directly to the technician. He rode it and put it back in the shop. They had to heat up the sprocket to get it off and the splines were damaged, as well as the shaft. See attached pictures. Three things to think about...if you see red oxide by the front sprocket bring in you bike. Two..Ask for a service manager if you don't agree with what you are hearing. Three...buy the extended service warranty. Costs so far is over $2,500 and that does not include what they may find when they take out the shaft. I will keep you posted. I am 2 weeks without a bike now and it looks like another 2 weeks for sure.
Curious, who is your Florida dealer, assuming you live in Florida.
Before they go crazy tearing your machine apart, you want it validated by measuring that the splines on the shaft are truly worn, as most are not. Additionally, ensure the dealership has contacted BRP for the most up to date installation procedure, beyond what current shop manual states.
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Very Active Member
The best substitute for brains & knowledge is....................silence.
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by fantabstic
I have under 8000 mile on my 2015 F3S. Heard a weird noise too and took bike into Sun sorts in Ft. Myers. I told them about the red dust by the front sprocket and they said all belt driven bikes have that. Where does red oxide come from from a black belt? They said it was my belt tensioner and replaced it. I still had the noise of the sprocket (grinding like a bad bearing) when I decelerated. They said that noise is common with the spyder and I told them that if I heard that kind of noise before I would not have purchased it in the first place! I asked for the Service Manager, as you can not talk directly to the technician. He rode it and put it back in the shop. They had to heat up the sprocket to get it off and the splines were damaged, as well as the shaft. See attached pictures. Three things to think about...if you see red oxide by the front sprocket bring in you bike. Two..Ask for a service manager if you don't agree with what you are hearing. Three...buy the extended service warranty. Costs so far is over $2,500 and that does not include what they may find when they take out the shaft. I will keep you posted. I am 2 weeks without a bike now and it looks like another 2 weeks for sure.
The output shaft looks fine in the pics. I think you only need a new pulley, properly installed. Damage to the splines on the shaft are actually not the norm as the sprocket is designed to be softer than the shaft so damage to internal parts does not happen.
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Front Sprocket failure.
Originally Posted by PMK
Curious, who is your Florida dealer, assuming you live in Florida.
Before they go crazy tearing your machine apart, you want it validated by measuring that the splines on the shaft are truly worn, as most are not. Additionally, ensure the dealership has contacted BRP for the most up to date installation procedure, beyond what current shop manual states.
Sun Sports Ft. Myers. They said they are working with BRP and stated that "the main shaft splines are worn down and slightly twisted at the end. We will at the very least need to replace the main shaft and the pulley. Upon removal of the counter shaft we will inspect the outer bearing for any signs of wear, and more than likely advise replacement. The engine will have to be removed to do this repair. Some initial parts have been picked, but this list will be expanded upon splitting the gearbox." Ufda!
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Originally Posted by jcthorne
The output shaft looks fine in the pics. I think you only need a new pulley, properly installed. Damage to the splines on the shaft are actually not the norm as the sprocket is designed to be softer than the shaft so damage to internal parts does not happen.
jcthorne;
They said they are working with BRP and stated that "the main shaft splines are worn down and slightly twisted at the end. We will at the very least need to replace the main shaft and the pulley. Upon removal of the counter shaft we will inspect the outer bearing for any signs of wear, and more than likely advise replacement. The engine will have to be removed to do this repair. Some initial parts have been picked, but this list will be expanded upon splitting the gearbox."
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by fantabstic
jcthorne;
They said they are working with BRP and stated that "the main shaft splines are worn down and slightly twisted at the end. We will at the very least need to replace the main shaft and the pulley. Upon removal of the counter shaft we will inspect the outer bearing for any signs of wear, and more than likely advise replacement. The engine will have to be removed to do this repair. Some initial parts have been picked, but this list will be expanded upon splitting the gearbox."
Sounds like they can see things in person I cannot in the pics. Good to hear they and BRP are getting your bike fixed though. Hope it does not take too long. I know first hand the frustration dealing with large warranty claims with BRP.
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by jcthorne
Sounds like they can see things in person I cannot in the pics. Good to hear they and BRP are getting your bike fixed though. Hope it does not take too long. I know first hand the frustration dealing with large warranty claims with BRP.
Agree. Like you I see no wear or twisting to the splines in the photo. Myself, I would be testing the splines via installing a new pulley. Any twisting will not allow the pulley to slide onto the splines. As you said, not there so whatever they want to do.
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For the life of me, can not understand why this problem apparently continues with Can Am. HD's, Indians and a handful of other M/C brands have belt final drive with little or no problems with their front sprockets.
Can anyone explain the difference........
Dean O
Gran Pa Hoon
Founder San Jose BMW
Builder of the Motorcyclist Cafe Barn and Bunkhouse
Alamogordo, NM
'20 Spyder F3 L
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The difference is that the Can Am belt is twice the length.
My red dusted sprocket was replaced with a new and updated front sprocket and since then no issues.
Also note that HD and Indians are the least ridden of the major brands so sprocket failure is unlikely on an unused bike.
Originally Posted by old Timer
For the life of me, can not understand why this problem apparently continues with Can Am. HD's, Indians and a handful of other M/C brands have belt final drive with little or no problems with their front sprockets.
Can anyone explain the difference........
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Very Active Member
Drive Pulley Torque
Originally Posted by Lastchance
Yamaha Warrior from 02 - 05 had this problem it turned out that the pulley lock nut was the problem it was fix in 06, but it usually took the shaft with it. Knowing this I check mine for filings or dust whenever I think of it, also when I got it my belt was at 240, I dropped it to 200, after reading all the posts about what it should be I went to 180, didn't think I wanted that much tension on the drive pulley, also my vib went from 55-60 to just a little bit around 70. So if a few have had this problem it would probably be a good idea to check it every so often, if you reach up behind the cover you can feel the pulley if your fingers come out with black dust better check further.
My manual shows 92 # torque for my 2015 F3's. I think CanAm must have some some strong people on the assy line--they show 166 # on the axle nut that has a cotter pin to prevent the nut from falling off. Other than the clutch pack on my motorcycles I've never seen over 90 # torque.
Darrell
2015 F3's , two 12 volt power outlets Orange & Black
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by Road-Kill
The difference is that the Can Am belt is twice the length.
My red dusted sprocket was replaced with a new and updated front sprocket and since then no issues.
Also note that HD and Indians are the least ridden of the major brands so sprocket failure is unlikely on an unused bike.
I have seen HD's and yamaha well over 100000 ,and never heard of sprocket failure . Of course i do not get out much .
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