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04-16-2017, 11:28 PM
#626
I never said a dealer was doing it .
Last edited by Peter Aawen; 01-21-2024 at 06:27 PM.
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04-17-2017, 08:56 AM
#627
Very Active Member
I can fix any of them in about 5 minutes....but I do need my eyes open.
Will be at the Texas Trike Rally this weekend in Kerrville if anyone needs DESS disabled.
Last edited by jcthorne; 04-17-2017 at 08:58 AM.
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08-10-2017, 06:15 PM
#628
Hi
I think I may've found out the issue...
First post. Have been having the same issues as everyone else with DESS errors. (2014 RS-S).
However, being an Electronic Engineer, I've taken some time to try and work out the pattern between when it does and does not occur. Lots of testing doing this and that and I've come across this.
'Pay-wave' (or whatever you call them) Credit Cards and POS Cards.
YEP
100% DESS error fail if they're in my wallet in pocket and I'm near Spyder when starting.
0% (except one possible false positive) if I stand 2m (6') away putting jacket/helmet on whilst starting.
So when I thought 'WHY' has this started
- well, when I got Spyder I had one pay-wave card - now I have four!!
- recent update in cards from Bank have cards that work from POS terminals from further distance (more sensitive electronics in card)
- Can-Am DESS likely to be using same frequency band as pay-wave and hence cards may be accidentally responding to the security check.
So please anyone else, try to replicate my tests above!!
Greg@Oz
Last edited by Peter Aawen; 01-21-2024 at 06:28 PM.
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08-10-2017, 06:52 PM
#629
Very Active Member
Dess theory
Last edited by Peter Aawen; 01-21-2024 at 06:30 PM.
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08-10-2017, 07:22 PM
#630
Very Active Member
Originally Posted by beaker
Hi
I think I may've found out the issue...
First post. Have been having the same issues as everyone else with DESS errors. (2014 RS-S).
However, being an Electronic Engineer, I've taken some time to try and work out the pattern between when it does and does not occur. Lots of testing doing this and that and I've come across this.
'Pay-wave' (or whatever you call them) Credit Cards and POS Cards.
YEP
100% DESS error fail if they're in my wallet in pocket and I'm near Spyder when starting.
0% (except one possible false positive) if I stand 2m (6') away putting jacket/helmet on whilst starting.
So when I thought 'WHY' has this started
- well, when I got Spyder I had one pay-wave card - now I have four!!
- recent update in cards from Bank have cards that work from POS terminals from further distance (more sensitive electronics in card)
- Can-Am DESS likely to be using same frequency band as pay-wave and hence cards may be accidentally responding to the security check.
So please anyone else, try to replicate my tests above!!
Greg@Oz
The following info is what I got from my dealership (July 14, 2015) about the D.E.S.S. *** Problem: Intermittently, the ignition key may not be recognized causing the unit not to start. The D.E.S.S. ERROR message will be displayed in the Cluster***
Solution: Replace the D.E.S.S. module. Program the keys using B.U.D.S referring to 2014 RT shop manual section DIGITALLY ENCODED SECURITY SYSTEM.
Technical Explanation:
When the D.E.S.S. module sends its signal to the antenna to read the key chip, the radio frequency produced by the antenna is too strong and the key chip is saturated. The saturation changes the data transmitted back to the D.E.S.S. module causing a bad lecture of the key chip.
They have had cases where a cell phone or magnetic card, placed near the ignition switch cause this. This includes any device that may emit type of frequency.
I have a 2014 RTS-SE6 and have had 2 DESS modules replaced, (July 14, 2015, & Aug. 28, 2015) and on Aug. 28th, 2015, a switch replaced, reprogrammed keys, new trailer lock, reshaped keys, trunk lock. Since then, I have not had the D.E.S.S error. I have 19,700 miles on my Spyder now.
Deanna
Last edited by Peter Aawen; 01-21-2024 at 06:42 PM.
Current Spyder - 2023 F3 LTD Special Mineral Blue
Red LED NANO Saddlebag Marker Lights with Full Illumination
Sequential Fender LED'S (Amber/Red) with Safety Reflector
Dual Power Plate (12 V & USB ports)
Gremlin Bell
Rear Trunk Organizer (4 holders, 2 Elastic Holders)
Lamonster "Top Cuff" with adjustable drink Holder
SpyderPops Missing Guard Belt
Console Accent Trim (Carbon Fiber Domed Black)
Ultimate F3 Floorboards
Front Fairing Service Access Door Covers (Carbon Fiber Doomed Black)
Sway Bar with Links
Rolo Laser Alignment
Half Cover
A-Arm Daytime Dual Color LED Running Lights with Blinker Module
Hi-Viz DRL and Sequential Mirrors lights
Marinco 12Volt Power Receptacle with polarized leads & slide lock
Show chrome Trunk Shock
Former Spyder - 2014 RTS SE6 Cognac SOLD
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08-10-2017, 07:27 PM
#631
Active Member
Originally Posted by beaker
Hi
I think I may've found out the issue...
First post. Have been having the same issues as everyone else with DESS errors. (2014 RS-S).
However, being an Electronic Engineer, I've taken some time to try and work out the pattern between when it does and does not occur. Lots of testing doing this and that and I've come across this.
'Pay-wave' (or whatever you call them) Credit Cards and POS Cards.
YEP
100% DESS error fail if they're in my wallet in pocket and I'm near Spyder when starting.
0% (except one possible false positive) if I stand 2m (6') away putting jacket/helmet on whilst starting.
So when I thought 'WHY' has this started
- well, when I got Spyder I had one pay-wave card - now I have four!!
- recent update in cards from Bank have cards that work from POS terminals from further distance (more sensitive electronics in card)
- Can-Am DESS likely to be using same frequency band as pay-wave and hence cards may be accidentally responding to the security check.
So please anyone else, try to replicate my tests above!!
Greg@Oz
Try it with an RFID blocking wallet and with your cards in it. Glad I have one now, just in case. It matches my tinfoil hat also.
Last edited by Peter Aawen; 01-21-2024 at 06:42 PM.
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08-10-2017, 10:07 PM
#632
Hi
No harm taken from your reply ... However, yes, a positive read may need to be within 4 inches... but the distance an object can be to interfere with one may be much larger.
In my testing, I had to be at least 2 metres away during the entire power on cycle (up to point where 'push mode' comes on) to avoid the DESS error. I also tried this with and without my phone in my pocket or smart watch on (so it's not bluetooth or wifi at large).
In balance, I'm not saying it may not be being caused by other reasons as well (water, time, fault) but just that in my case, I can pretty much confirm its my wallet and contents (and since the rest is leather and paper/plastic, it's got to be the cards!)
Cheers anyways.
Last edited by Peter Aawen; 01-21-2024 at 06:44 PM.
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08-11-2017, 03:09 AM
#633
WOW
Has anyone else noticed - there have been almost as many Views of this thread
as the total number of spyders sold ! !
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08-11-2017, 08:24 AM
#634
It has happened twice on my 2017 RT-S SE6. Both times it was after I washed it. The second time I went to the fuse box and there was Half a spoonful of water sitting on top of the outer box, so I left it open for an hour and then it fired up. Has me worried about riding in the rain away from home or shelter?
Wayne
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08-11-2017, 09:08 AM
#635
Active Member
Originally Posted by RWM
It has happened twice on my 2017 RT-S SE6. Both times it was after I washed it. The second time I went to the fuse box and there was Half a spoonful of water sitting on top of the outer box, so I left it open for an hour and then it fired up. Has me worried about riding in the rain away from home or shelter?
Wayne
Dangit! When I was switching my fuses to have my 12v power "always on", I noticed the same water in my 2017 RT-S outer fuse box cover. Something else to talk to the dealer about during my 3,000 mile service in a month or so.
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08-13-2017, 04:49 PM
#636
Very Active Member
Originally Posted by loisk
WOW
Has anyone else noticed - there have been almost as many Views of this thread
as the total number of spyders sold ! !
A double WOW
I did notice the # of Views/reply's on this thread, ( that I started 2 years ago) This thread has a lot of useful/helpful info about the D.E.S.S.
Deanna
Current Spyder - 2023 F3 LTD Special Mineral Blue
Red LED NANO Saddlebag Marker Lights with Full Illumination
Sequential Fender LED'S (Amber/Red) with Safety Reflector
Dual Power Plate (12 V & USB ports)
Gremlin Bell
Rear Trunk Organizer (4 holders, 2 Elastic Holders)
Lamonster "Top Cuff" with adjustable drink Holder
SpyderPops Missing Guard Belt
Console Accent Trim (Carbon Fiber Domed Black)
Ultimate F3 Floorboards
Front Fairing Service Access Door Covers (Carbon Fiber Doomed Black)
Sway Bar with Links
Rolo Laser Alignment
Half Cover
A-Arm Daytime Dual Color LED Running Lights with Blinker Module
Hi-Viz DRL and Sequential Mirrors lights
Marinco 12Volt Power Receptacle with polarized leads & slide lock
Show chrome Trunk Shock
Former Spyder - 2014 RTS SE6 Cognac SOLD
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08-14-2017, 05:34 PM
#637
Very Active Member
Current Spyder - 2023 F3 LTD Special Mineral Blue
Red LED NANO Saddlebag Marker Lights with Full Illumination
Sequential Fender LED'S (Amber/Red) with Safety Reflector
Dual Power Plate (12 V & USB ports)
Gremlin Bell
Rear Trunk Organizer (4 holders, 2 Elastic Holders)
Lamonster "Top Cuff" with adjustable drink Holder
SpyderPops Missing Guard Belt
Console Accent Trim (Carbon Fiber Domed Black)
Ultimate F3 Floorboards
Front Fairing Service Access Door Covers (Carbon Fiber Doomed Black)
Sway Bar with Links
Rolo Laser Alignment
Half Cover
A-Arm Daytime Dual Color LED Running Lights with Blinker Module
Hi-Viz DRL and Sequential Mirrors lights
Marinco 12Volt Power Receptacle with polarized leads & slide lock
Show chrome Trunk Shock
Former Spyder - 2014 RTS SE6 Cognac SOLD
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08-14-2017, 05:43 PM
#638
Active Member
Originally Posted by HankD
Dangit! When I was switching my fuses to have my 12v power "always on", I noticed the same water in my 2017 RT-S outer fuse box cover. Something else to talk to the dealer about during my 3,000 mile service in a month or so.
I found out on another thread (from someone much smarter about Spyders than I) that water in the OUTER fuse box covers is normal, as those covers are there to protect the Frunk from getting wet. Water in the inside covers is a problem. So, I am relieved. Just wanted to pass it on for others that might not have seen it and were concerned about water in the outer covers.
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09-03-2017, 12:10 PM
#639
Very Active Member
It's been well over 10K miles since I had the original module and ignition switch replaced and no error . . . UNTIL YESTERDAY!
I made an important discovery. Your BlueTooth comms unit (in this case a Sena 20S) may and in this specific scenario does affect the system IF in close vicinity of the key.
After riding all day without a problem, was home and testing some "noise" coming from my unit. Was trying to determine if it was being caused by the SM10 (made a modification) or the iPod.
While checking the system I was leaning over the console and turned the key (20S was on) and BANG - DESS ERROR came on.
Of course I was in shock and since I was now no longer interested in my previous problem shut off the 20S, immediately tried to restart the Spyder and all was good!
Being curious, I removed the 20S from helmet turned it on, placed it on the console and turned the key.
BANG - DESS error.
I repeated this several times with the S20 off and on, and every time it was on, I got the error; every time it was off, no error.
So now to be safe, I decided to turn on the 20S - AFTER the Spyder starts.
I might add, there is NO INTERFERENCE, while sitting on the seat NORMALLY, but to be on the safe side decided to use the 20S on after starting just to reduce frustration.
Again, this was with a Sena 20S and a 2014 RT-S, I cannot state if other models of Sena or Spyder will have the same problem OR results.
AJ
Last edited by Peter Aawen; 01-21-2024 at 06:52 PM.
2014 RT-S
Akrapovic Exhaust & Cat Bypass
Bajaron Sway Bar w/links / Sena SM-10/Garmin 660
Comfort Seat w Adjustable Backrest
Decals by Purple Harley / Magic Strobe
Kuryakyn Black Widow Pegs Rivco Highway Brackets
Rivco Trunk Mounted Double Flag Holder
FOBO / Spyder Cuff / XM Radio w MC Antenna
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09-03-2017, 03:40 PM
#640
Originally Posted by PaladinLV
.... Your BlueTooth comms unit (in this case a Sena 20S) may and in this specific scenario does affect the system IF in close vicinity of the key.
After riding all day without a problem, was home and testing some "noise" coming from my unit. Was trying to determine if it was being caused by the SM10 (made a modification) or the iPod.
While checking the system I was leaning over the console and turned the key (20S was on) and BANG - DESS ERROR came on.
Of course I was in shock and since I was now no longer interested in my previous problem shut off the 20S, immediately tried to restart the Spyder and all was good!
Being curious, I removed the 20S from helmet turned it on, placed it on the console and turned the key.
BANG - DESS error.
I repeated this several times with the S20 off and on, and every time it was on, I got the error; every time it was off, no error.
So now to be safe, I decided to turn on the 20S - AFTER the Spyder starts.
I might add, there is NO INTERFERENCE while sitting on the seat NORMALLY, but to be on the safe side I decided to turn the 20S on after starting just to reduce frustration.
....
My wife and I both have the Sena 20S and each have a 2014 Spyder RTL. So far, we have not experienced anything like this. We haven't yet tried leaning over the key with our helmets on and the 20S on ... is that what you were doing? It just says you were leaning over the console (instrument panel?).
Does anyone know what frequency band the D.E.S.S. uses to communicate with the key? I think we should only expect interference by other nearby electronics if those are operating in the same frequency band. It would be easy enough to compare the DESS frequency with, say, a BT device.
Last edited by Peter Aawen; 01-21-2024 at 06:52 PM.
2014 RTL Platinum
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09-03-2017, 05:59 PM
#641
Very Active Member
Originally Posted by PaladinLV
It's been well over 10K miles since I had the original module and ignition switch replaced and no error . . . UNTIL YESTERDAY!
I made an important discovery. Your BlueTooth comms unit (in this case a Sena 20S) may and in this specific scenario does affect the system IF in close vicinity of the key.
After riding all day without a problem, was home and testing some "noise" coming from my unit. Was trying to determine if it was being caused by the SM10 (made a modification) or the iPod.
While checking the system I was leaning over the console and turned the key (20S was on) and BANG - DESS ERROR came on.
Of course I was in shock and since I was now no longer interested in my previous problem shut off the 20S, immediately tried to restart the Spyder and all was good!
Being curious, I removed the 20S from helmet turned it on, placed it on the console and turned the key.
BANG - DESS error.
I repeated this several times with the S20 off and on, and every time it was on, I got the error; every time it was off, no error.
So now to be safe, I decided to turn on the 20S - AFTER the Spyder starts.
I might add, there is NO INTERFERENCE, while sitting on the seat NORMALLY, but to be on the safe side decided to use the 20S on after starting just to reduce frustration.
Again, this was with a Sena 20S and a 2014 RT-S, I cannot state if other models of Sena or Spyder will have the same problem OR results.
AJ
I have a Sena 10S bluetooth communicator on my helmet, I have not had the DESS error show up.
I also have a 2014 RTS-SE 6 with 20,800 miles.
Deanna
Last edited by Peter Aawen; 01-21-2024 at 06:54 PM.
Current Spyder - 2023 F3 LTD Special Mineral Blue
Red LED NANO Saddlebag Marker Lights with Full Illumination
Sequential Fender LED'S (Amber/Red) with Safety Reflector
Dual Power Plate (12 V & USB ports)
Gremlin Bell
Rear Trunk Organizer (4 holders, 2 Elastic Holders)
Lamonster "Top Cuff" with adjustable drink Holder
SpyderPops Missing Guard Belt
Console Accent Trim (Carbon Fiber Domed Black)
Ultimate F3 Floorboards
Front Fairing Service Access Door Covers (Carbon Fiber Doomed Black)
Sway Bar with Links
Rolo Laser Alignment
Half Cover
A-Arm Daytime Dual Color LED Running Lights with Blinker Module
Hi-Viz DRL and Sequential Mirrors lights
Marinco 12Volt Power Receptacle with polarized leads & slide lock
Show chrome Trunk Shock
Former Spyder - 2014 RTS SE6 Cognac SOLD
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09-03-2017, 08:31 PM
#642
Very Active Member
Virtually all low power wireless stuff operates in the 2402 to 2480 MHz range generally referred to 2.4 GHz, including Bluetooth. Most likely the DESS operates in that range also. From what I find BT has 38 channels [I saw one mention of 70 channels] in that range and uses a technique called frequency hopping. I suspect what happened in Paladin's test is his Sena BT unit just happened to land on the same frequency as the DESS. I'm guessing, since I'm not a BT expert, that the reason Paladin was able to repeat the error was because once his BT stuff was paired there was no need to switch to a different frequency.
Paladin, if you reset your BT communication units I expect you would not repeat the DESS error because your BT stuff quite likely will have locked onto a different frequency.
Considering the number of channels used by BT and the short duration, maybe even pulsing, of the DESS RF communication, I think it was pure coincidence his BT caused the DESS, and pure coincidence if someone else can repeat it. I put my phone into BT scan mode and it did not cause a DESS error on three tries. Anything that puts out a digital signal similar to the DESS signal in the 2.4 GHz band stands the possibility of interfering with the DESS.
For an informative article about why so much stuff uses the 2.4 GHz range, known as the Industrial, Scientific, and Medical band read this.
https://www.wired.com/2010/09/wireless-explainer/
2014 Copper RTS
Tri-Axis bars, CB, BajaRon sway bar & shock adjusters, SpyderPop's Bumpskid, NBV peg brackets, LED headlights and modulator, Wolo trumpet air horns, trailer hitch, custom trailer harness, high mount turn signals, Custom Dynamics brake light, LED turn signal lights on mirrors, LED strip light for a dash light, garage door opener, LED lights in frunk, trunk, and saddlebags, RAM mounts and cradles for tablet (for GPS) and phone (for music), and Smooth Spyder belt tensioner.
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09-06-2017, 09:09 AM
#643
can hooking power supply cords such as heated clothing cords or trailer wiring harness directly to the battery give a d.e.s.s. code when neither is in use. The dealership asked these questions when trying to figure out why i continue to get the code after they replaced the d.e.s.s. module.
Last edited by Peter Aawen; 01-21-2024 at 06:54 PM.
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09-06-2017, 10:32 AM
#644
Very Active Member
Heated clothing should not be turned on until AFTER the engine is running due to the amount of current being drawn from battery.
So the question is would a drain on the battery cause a DESS issue? Don't think so, but I guess anything is possible.
AJ
Originally Posted by rustynail51
can hooking power supply cords such as heated clothing cords or trailer wiring harness directly to the battery give a d.e.s.s. code when neither is in use. The dealership asked these questions when trying to figure out why i continue to get the code after they replaced the d.e.s.s. module.
2014 RT-S
Akrapovic Exhaust & Cat Bypass
Bajaron Sway Bar w/links / Sena SM-10/Garmin 660
Comfort Seat w Adjustable Backrest
Decals by Purple Harley / Magic Strobe
Kuryakyn Black Widow Pegs Rivco Highway Brackets
Rivco Trunk Mounted Double Flag Holder
FOBO / Spyder Cuff / XM Radio w MC Antenna
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01-28-2018, 11:21 AM
#645
Well I got the DESS check engine on the speedo today 1-27-17. I turned the switch off and on 3 or 4 times and got it to start. I have 18,997 miles on my 2014 RTL-SE6 spyder and this is the first DESS issue for me. I guess I'll keep riding it for a while and see if it happens again.
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01-28-2018, 12:54 PM
#646
Very Active Member
Originally Posted by A1A
Well I got the DESS check engine on the speedo today 1-27-17. I turned the switch off and on 3 or 4 times and got it to start. I have 18,997 miles on my 2014 RTL-SE6 spyder and this is the first DESS issue for me. I guess I'll keep riding it for a while and see if it happens again.
The long answer is you need to do a lot of reading on this topic .... the short answer is that it's very likely to occur again and again until it finally stops working completely..... To best of my knowledge there is no fix/cure for the DESS issue .... other than replace it (or have it disconnected)...... This is such a well-known problem (1000's of them have failed) that even if your Spyder has gone out of Warranty, I'd press hard on your dealer to have BRP replace it as a GOODWILL gesture ..... If not, you can purchase the module for About $150 +/- and do it yourself .... it's not difficult .... But you do need to remove the Frunk to get to it .... it's the black box above the Battery on the firewall ..... Good Luck .... Mike
Last edited by Peter Aawen; 01-21-2024 at 06:56 PM.
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01-28-2018, 01:13 PM
#647
Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911
The long answer is you need to do a lot of reading on this topic .... the short answer is that it's very likely to occur again and again until it finally stops working completely..... To best of my knowledge there is no fix/cure for the DESS issue .... other than replace it (or have it disconnected)...... This is such a well-known problem (1000's of them have failed) that even if your Spyder has gone out of Warranty, I'd press hard on your dealer to have BRP replace it as a GOODWILL gesture ..... If not, you can purchase the module for About $150 +/- and do it yourself .... it's not difficult .... But you do need to remove the Frunk to get to it .... it's the black box above the Battery on the firewall ..... Good Luck .... Mike
Mike, thank you for the info my friend. Yes I read about half the DESS Thread and my eyes were starting to turn red and were burning. I just had to stop reading it. I'm still under warranty so the Dealer should address this issue for me. The display I had on the speedo said DESS and below that it showed the engine blinking, but no key image at all.
Cheers
Last edited by Peter Aawen; 01-21-2024 at 06:57 PM.
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01-28-2018, 02:47 PM
#648
Very Active Member
The only for sure way to fix it, is replacement of BOTH the DESS module AND you ignition switch (which will also get you a new key).
Good Luck!
AJ
Originally Posted by A1A
Mike, thank you for the info my friend. Yes I read about half the DESS Thread and my eyes were starting to turn red and were burning. I just had to stop reading it. I'm still under warranty so the Dealer should address this issue for me. The display I had on the speedo said DESS and below that it showed the engine blinking, but no key image at all.
Cheers
2014 RT-S
Akrapovic Exhaust & Cat Bypass
Bajaron Sway Bar w/links / Sena SM-10/Garmin 660
Comfort Seat w Adjustable Backrest
Decals by Purple Harley / Magic Strobe
Kuryakyn Black Widow Pegs Rivco Highway Brackets
Rivco Trunk Mounted Double Flag Holder
FOBO / Spyder Cuff / XM Radio w MC Antenna
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01-28-2018, 04:40 PM
#649
Very Active Member
Last edited by Peter Aawen; 01-21-2024 at 06:59 PM.
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01-28-2018, 06:45 PM
#650
Very Active Member
Originally Posted by rustynail51
can hooking power supply cords such as heated clothing cords or trailer wiring harness directly to the battery give a d.e.s.s. code when neither is in use. The dealership asked these questions when trying to figure out why i continue to get the code after they replaced the d.e.s.s. module.
I don't know the answer, someone one on this site should chime in with the answer.
Deanna
Current Spyder - 2023 F3 LTD Special Mineral Blue
Red LED NANO Saddlebag Marker Lights with Full Illumination
Sequential Fender LED'S (Amber/Red) with Safety Reflector
Dual Power Plate (12 V & USB ports)
Gremlin Bell
Rear Trunk Organizer (4 holders, 2 Elastic Holders)
Lamonster "Top Cuff" with adjustable drink Holder
SpyderPops Missing Guard Belt
Console Accent Trim (Carbon Fiber Domed Black)
Ultimate F3 Floorboards
Front Fairing Service Access Door Covers (Carbon Fiber Doomed Black)
Sway Bar with Links
Rolo Laser Alignment
Half Cover
A-Arm Daytime Dual Color LED Running Lights with Blinker Module
Hi-Viz DRL and Sequential Mirrors lights
Marinco 12Volt Power Receptacle with polarized leads & slide lock
Show chrome Trunk Shock
Former Spyder - 2014 RTS SE6 Cognac SOLD
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