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11-08-2017, 10:31 AM
#226
Very Active Member
Question
So you are replacing a defective part with the exact same defective part? Has BRP weighed in on this issue at all? It sounds like it is happening to all models not just F3s but F3Ls and F3Ts as well.
White 2013 Spyder RT Limited. BajaRon Swaybar, Custom Dynamic Third Brake Light. Ultimate Custom Black and White seat with driver and passenger back rest. Gloryder Led Wheel lights.Custom Dynamics Led Bright sides, Amber and Red Fender lights, and Saddle Bag Bright sides.
2016 F3 Limited Intense Red Pearl. Lidlox, BRP Driver Back Rest, BRP Passenger Back Rest,Fog Lights, GPS, Signature Light! Custom Dynamics LED Bright Sides, Amber and Red Fender lights, and Saddle Bag Bright Sides.
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11-08-2017, 10:33 AM
#227
Very Active Member
Originally Posted by Roadster Renovations
Since there is only about 15lbs max pressure on the Vibration Dampers, it is not going to effect anything with the splines.
Actually it does. It greatly reduces impact loading from the belt harmonics.
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11-08-2017, 10:49 AM
#228
Originally Posted by Pirate looks at --
So you are replacing a defective part with the exact same defective part? Has BRP weighed in on this issue at all? It sounds like it is happening to all models not just F3s but F3Ls and F3Ts as well.
I don't think the part is defective as much as the problem being caused by assembling the sprocket onto the shaft dry. Assembly grease such as the M-77 Moly needs to be used. Doc also mentioned an additional step to seal out moisture.
I agree with your logic though noting that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. LOL
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11-08-2017, 07:44 PM
#229
Very Active Member
Originally Posted by ofdave
so while all are taking time to deal with the apoplexy over the part number issue
has anyone looked at whether the problem occurs with or without a belt tensioner installed?
I installed the tensioner after the first failure and still had a second failure.
CJ JAX
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11-08-2017, 09:34 PM
#230
Active Member
Sprocket
I still haven't heard back from BRP about all the info I sent them, I'm going to give it a few more day's and resend! In the mean time the Moly lube is the best bet if you're fortunate enough not to had yours wear out. Mine I know is in good shape so I'm going to pull my sprocket and use the Moly, going to use red Loctite on the bolt, I don't think applying sealant will help as you can't seal the backside of the sprocket. Sorry Doc!
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11-08-2017, 10:42 PM
#231
Active Member
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11-09-2017, 07:33 AM
#232
This is totally unbelievable, Motorcycles have been using final belt drives for years, with some models since the late 70's and early 80's. Even used on the 170 HP Polaris Sling Shot.
These Spyders are the first motorcycle application that seem to be a problem.
Do not understand.
Dean O
Gran Pa Hoon
Founder San Jose BMW
Builder of the Motorcyclist Cafe Barn and Bunkhouse
Alamogordo, NM
'20 Spyder F3 L
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11-09-2017, 08:54 AM
#233
Originally Posted by SpyderF3-s
This is what BRP emailed me about the picture I sent them when asked about the sprocket being installed backwards:
" one of my technician verified the picture and told me that either side the sprocket is installed that should not make any difference."
The original sprocket had the numbers on the outside. I agree with others that there should be a tech bulletin as to the correct installation of the part.
spyder sprocket.jpg
At what point could this continuous failing part be determined as a non fixable issue and be declared a "lemon". 3 or four times? How many miles is acceptable? Does the Spyder follow the same "lemon" laws as a car or truck? Something to thing about.
That is just crazy what they told you. There has to be a "right" way to install. Wonder why they say it doesn't matter?
I will say this; anyone that has one fail should insist on them sealing it from water. Any wear on the shaft from the first failure, even within spec, will allow water to get in the cracks, shortening the life of the new sprocket.
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11-09-2017, 10:50 AM
#234
I'm sitting here at my dealer for both the 18,000+ mile service and front sprocket inspection. I'm not a betting man but I'm thinking he is not going to replace it today. Thoughts? Let's bet on this for fun.
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11-09-2017, 12:10 PM
#235
Very Active Member
Originally Posted by Road-Kill
I'm sitting here at my dealer for both the 18,000+ mile service and front sprocket inspection. I'm not a betting man but I'm thinking he is not going to replace it today. Thoughts? Let's bet on this for fun.
I would INSIST on looking at it with the bolt out- So you can verify the condition.
2015 F3 SM6, Custom Dynamics fender lights.
Sea Doo GTI-SE 90 Jet Ski!!
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11-09-2017, 01:16 PM
#236
Howdy folks,
Just a few thoughts..
Per BRP the sprocket has been updated and should not fail again after replacement. The BRP technical case representative recommended putting loctite 660 on the splines when replacing the sprocket. This is not in the FSM that I have found and is not referenced in any official BRP documentation that I have seen. (TST) Frankly, the loctite is likely the solution to the problem unless they have made the sprockets harder. I have not seen shaft damage on any spyder yet, either with a complete failure or prior to complete failure, however those with more than one failure bear closer inspection in this area certainly.
Per the FSM the bolt is a one time use fastener so I would exercise caution with the removing and then reinstalling it just to check splines. Personally, every sprocket that we have seen fail has had the red powder on the face of the sprocket. I would lean away from putting moly on the splines as you would with the splines on a shaft drive bike as some have mentioned as that is really a totally different application. There really isn't a reason to remove the sprocket frequently, and when that time comes heat will be required.
Personally, if a customer brings a spyder in and has evidence of impending failure we will replace the sprocket. It seems a little ridiculous to expect the customer to be stranded on the side of the road before taking care of the issue.
Your friendly service manager/Spyder technician...
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11-09-2017, 02:01 PM
#237
Active Member
So what is the correct installation of the sprocket? Part number on the outside with lip on the inside or visa versa? What does BRP say is the life expectancy of the part? With the amount of miles I drive each year (over 20,000 miles) I will have to replace it every year at the rate mine have failed (I'm on the third sprocket) Will BRP continue to replace the sprocket once my warranty expires since it is a known failure? Curious minds what to know!
Originally Posted by EETHER54
Howdy folks,
Just a few thoughts..
Per BRP the sprocket has been updated and should not fail again after replacement. The BRP technical case representative recommended putting loctite 660 on the splines when replacing the sprocket. This is not in the FSM that I have found and is not referenced in any official BRP documentation that I have seen. (TST) Frankly, the loctite is likely the solution to the problem unless they have made the sprockets harder. I have not seen shaft damage on any spyder yet, either with a complete failure or prior to complete failure, however those with more than one failure bear closer inspection in this area certainly.
Per the FSM the bolt is a one time use fastener so I would exercise caution with the removing and then reinstalling it just to check splines. Personally, every sprocket that we have seen fail has had the red powder on the face of the sprocket. I would lean away from putting moly on the splines as you would with the splines on a shaft drive bike as some have mentioned as that is really a totally different application. There really isn't a reason to remove the sprocket frequently, and when that time comes heat will be required.
Personally, if a customer brings a spyder in and has evidence of impending failure we will replace the sprocket. It seems a little ridiculous to expect the customer to be stranded on the side of the road before taking care of the issue.
Your friendly service manager/Spyder technician...
Last edited by SpyderF3-s; 11-09-2017 at 02:04 PM.
God bless those who serve/served our country!
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11-09-2017, 02:18 PM
#238
Waited two weeks for nothing.
Originally Posted by Sarge707
I would INSIST on looking at it with the bolt out- So you can verify the condition.
I just got home from my dealer. He told me my front sprocket is shot and will need replacement. He never ordered a new sprocket when I made the appointment 2 weeks ago. I do not know if not ordering this was a BRP or dealer mistake. Now I have to wait till the new part comes in, make an appointment and go back. I feel this was an unnecessary and easily correctable issue on both BRP and my dealer. They know as my dealer indicated this is a problem so the dealerships should have at least one sprocket in stock ready to go......but they do not.
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11-09-2017, 02:35 PM
#239
Very Active Member
Originally Posted by EETHER54
Howdy folks,
Just a few thoughts..
Per BRP the sprocket has been updated and should not fail again after replacement. The BRP technical case representative recommended putting loctite 660 on the splines when replacing the sprocket. This is not in the FSM that I have found and is not referenced in any official BRP documentation that I have seen. (TST) Frankly, the loctite is likely the solution to the problem unless they have made the sprockets harder. I have not seen shaft damage on any spyder yet, either with a complete failure or prior to complete failure, however those with more than one failure bear closer inspection in this area certainly.
Per the FSM the bolt is a one time use fastener so I would exercise caution with the removing and then reinstalling it just to check splines. Personally, every sprocket that we have seen fail has had the red powder on the face of the sprocket. I would lean away from putting moly on the splines as you would with the splines on a shaft drive bike as some have mentioned as that is really a totally different application. There really isn't a reason to remove the sprocket frequently, and when that time comes heat will be required.
Personally, if a customer brings a spyder in and has evidence of impending failure we will replace the sprocket. It seems a little ridiculous to expect the customer to be stranded on the side of the road before taking care of the issue.
Your friendly service manager/Spyder technician...
What is this supposed updated sprocket? Current part number ends in 2134 and is the same sprocket installed at the factory on my very early 2015F3S. If there is a new part number, its not in the catalog yet. At least as of 2 weeks ago.
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11-09-2017, 02:49 PM
#240
Very Active Member
Originally Posted by jcthorne
What is this supposed updated sprocket? Current part number ends in 2134 and is the same sprocket installed at the factory on my very early 2015F3S. If there is a new part number, its not in the catalog yet. At least as of 2 weeks ago.
BRP doesn’t actually say that the new sprocket has been made available yet, JC. It may still be in the manufacturing stage.
Pete
Harrington, Australia
2021 RT Limited
Setup for Tall & Big.... 200cm/6'7", 140kg/300lbs, 37"inleg.
HeliBars Handlebars
Brake rubber removed to lower pedal for easier long leg/Size 15 EEEEW boot access.
Ikon (Aussie) shocks all round, with sag adjusted for extra 3/8” clearance up front
Russell Daylong seat 2” taller than stock (in Sunbrella for Aussie heat & water resistance)
Goodyear Duragrip 165/60 fronts (18psi) - provides extra 1/2” ground clearance.
Kenda Kanine rear.
2021 RT Limited , Brake pedal rubber removed for ease of accessing pedal with size 15 boots. Red
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11-09-2017, 03:41 PM
#241
I haven't read all the posts, so forgive me if this has been covered.
I havent heard of this issue in Australia - doesn't mean it hasn't occurred ... but...
Here we don't have your larger rear sprocket or longer belt - given earlier discussion about belt harmonics etc I was just wondering whether this difference in belt may contribute to an explanation ? Or not ?
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11-09-2017, 03:52 PM
#242
Active Member
I feel your pain! I have been through this twice. Unfortunately for me, I did not catch the issue before it went out. Dealerships won't do anything without BRP direction while under warranty.
Same process each time:
a. 1-2 days to troubleshoot the issue and report to BRP for direction (it is easy to see the failure!)
b. 2-3 days to hear back from BRP
c. 5-7 days to get part
d. 1-2 days to install
First time it was 4 week before I got it back!!!! I agree that dealerships should have at least 1 part in-stock!
Originally Posted by Road-Kill
I just got home from my dealer. He told me my front sprocket is shot and will need replacement. He never ordered a new sprocket when I made the appointment 2 weeks ago. I do not know if not ordering this was a BRP or dealer mistake. Now I have to wait till the new part comes in, make an appointment and go back. I feel this was an unnecessary and easily correctable issue on both BRP and my dealer. They know as my dealer indicated this is a problem so the dealerships should have at least one sprocket in stock ready to go......but they do not.
Last edited by SpyderF3-s; 11-09-2017 at 03:55 PM.
God bless those who serve/served our country!
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11-09-2017, 04:05 PM
#243
Very Active Member
THANK YOU
Originally Posted by EETHER54
Howdy folks,
Just a few thoughts..
Per BRP the sprocket has been updated and should not fail again after replacement. The BRP technical case representative recommended putting loctite 660 on the splines when replacing the sprocket. This is not in the FSM that I have found and is not referenced in any official BRP documentation that I have seen. (TST) Frankly, the loctite is likely the solution to the problem unless they have made the sprockets harder. I have not seen shaft damage on any spyder yet, either with a complete failure or prior to complete failure, however those with more than one failure bear closer inspection in this area certainly.
Per the FSM the bolt is a one time use fastener so I would exercise caution with the removing and then reinstalling it just to check splines. Personally, every sprocket that we have seen fail has had the red powder on the face of the sprocket. I would lean away from putting moly on the splines as you would with the splines on a shaft drive bike as some have mentioned as that is really a totally different application. There really isn't a reason to remove the sprocket frequently, and when that time comes heat will be required.
Personally, if a customer brings a spyder in and has evidence of impending failure we will replace the sprocket. It seems a little ridiculous to expect the customer to be stranded on the side of the road before taking care of the issue.
Your friendly service manager/Spyder technician...
THANK YOU my friend....
i just hope i never have to come see you for this reason again....
you are the BEST....
Dan P
SPYD3R
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11-09-2017, 04:25 PM
#244
Originally Posted by SpyderF3-s
So what is the correct installation of the sprocket? Part number on the outside with lip on the inside or visa versa? What does BRP say is the life expectancy of the part? With the amount of miles I drive each year (over 20,000 miles) I will have to replace it every year at the rate mine have failed (I'm on the third sprocket) Will BRP continue to replace the sprocket once my warranty expires since it is a known failure? Curious minds what to know!
The X's go to the inside, part id and date to the outside. It is not interchangeable as the sprocket has offset. I wouldn't look for BRP to provide a life expectancy for a part. Any OEM is going to reticent to provide the stick a customer can use to beat them up with. There are too many variables to deal with. ie Was it installed correctly? Were the shaft splines properly inspected by the dealership? etc.
I wouldn't get to bogged down by what is stamped into your sprocket, other than the date perhaps. 705502131 isn't and never was a part number as in something you can walk into your dealership and order. All of our 2017 spyders have that same number. 705502134 is the current part number.
It is up to your dealer to choose whether or not to stock replacement parts for this or any other issue. Fwiw, BRP will not autoship parts for any recall or bulletin much less an issue that they to my knowledge have not really officially identified as a major problem.
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11-09-2017, 04:55 PM
#245
Very Active Member
Thanks very much for taking the time to post this Eether.
As you may know, I am a big supporter of BRP Care as they have always responded promptly to any questions, but I now find myself questioning their procedures and past answers.
There is one very, very concerning aspect of all this (beside customers being stranded in the middle of nowhere)......BRP Care have responded to 2 specific questions about this, stating in the first reply that that they have consulted a technician and the X goes to the outside, and in the second email that they have consulted a technician and it doesn’t matter which way around it goes.......and both of these answers appear incorrect. See below. So you really have to question exactly who BRP Care are consulting for their info. It obviously needs to be a single very senior technician, which does not appear to be the case here. It would be advantageous if BRP Care could, at a senior level, review the answers that have been provided to determine if they are due to a misunderstanding or if they are indeed incorrect (or correct)
I will indeed email this to BRP Care as well. This is just to keep forum members in the loop.
Pete
Originally Posted by JKMSPYDER
Ok, I just received an email from Aurelie at BRP Care regarding if my new sprocket was on backwards. I quote: "the front sprocket cannot be installed wrong-way-around, it would not fit. There is an offset which prevents this from happening. The X shows the outside."
Originally Posted by SpyderF3-s
This is what BRP emailed me about the picture I sent them when asked about the sprocket being installed backwards:
"one of my technician verified the picture and told me that either side the sprocket is installed that should not make any difference."
Harrington, Australia
2021 RT Limited
Setup for Tall & Big.... 200cm/6'7", 140kg/300lbs, 37"inleg.
HeliBars Handlebars
Brake rubber removed to lower pedal for easier long leg/Size 15 EEEEW boot access.
Ikon (Aussie) shocks all round, with sag adjusted for extra 3/8” clearance up front
Russell Daylong seat 2” taller than stock (in Sunbrella for Aussie heat & water resistance)
Goodyear Duragrip 165/60 fronts (18psi) - provides extra 1/2” ground clearance.
Kenda Kanine rear.
2021 RT Limited , Brake pedal rubber removed for ease of accessing pedal with size 15 boots. Red
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11-09-2017, 05:07 PM
#246
2016 F3LT Pulley Inspection
Actual part number # 2131.............sorry.
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11-09-2017, 05:46 PM
#247
Very Active Member
Originally Posted by EETHER54
The X's go to the inside, part id and date to the outside. It is not interchangeable as the sprocket has offset. I wouldn't look for BRP to provide a life expectancy for a part. Any OEM is going to reticent to provide the stick a customer can use to beat them up with. There are too many variables to deal with. ie Was it installed correctly? Were the shaft splines properly inspected by the dealership? etc.
I wouldn't get to bogged down by what is stamped into your sprocket, other than the date perhaps. 705502131 isn't and never was a part number as in something you can walk into your dealership and order. All of our 2017 spyders have that same number. 705502134 is the current part number.
It is up to your dealer to choose whether or not to stock replacement parts for this or any other issue. Fwiw, BRP will not autoship parts for any recall or bulletin much less an issue that they to my knowledge have not really officially identified as a major problem.
2134 is the # on the box BUT 2131 is the # stamped on the part- This has been noted more than once and was the case with the one I Just got at the dealer.
2015 F3 SM6, Custom Dynamics fender lights.
Sea Doo GTI-SE 90 Jet Ski!!
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11-09-2017, 06:09 PM
#248
While compiling info it would probably be helpful to also post what appears to be a manufacturing date that is right below the part number that is stamped on the sprocket. The one in the video Doc just posted was 03/15. The one that is on Sarge's F3 was 12/14. I couldn't make out the number on the other sprocket pics elsewhere.
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11-09-2017, 06:21 PM
#249
Very Active Member
My thanks to Eether54 for posting the correct alignment of the sprocket. It is a shame that Spyder F3-S and I received incorrect information from BRP Care. You would think that they would be consulting with BRP engineers that would know the correct alignment or they just don't care and want to brush off our questions. In my opinion this gives BRP Care a black eye and leads me to believe we can't trust anything they say. If BRP Care is reading this they probably won't respond as they will not want to touch this subject with a 10 foot pole. I love my Spyder but if Honda were to come out with a factory reverse trike I would be on it in a New York minute!!! I have contacted another dealer and he has received authorization from BRP to correctly align my sprocket and replace if needed and put on a new bolt with the locktite. Just waiting for the parts to come in.
2020 F3 Ltd
Spyderpops Bumpskid
Spyderpops Brake/Run/Turn Signal LED's
Lamonster Garage LED Fog Lights and Headlights
2013 ST-S retired 1/9/16 at 25,061 miles
2015 F3S sold at 77,565 miles.
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11-09-2017, 06:51 PM
#250
Very Active Member
Originally Posted by Road-Kill
I just got home from my dealer. He told me my front sprocket is shot and will need replacement. He never ordered a new sprocket when I made the appointment 2 weeks ago. I do not know if not ordering this was a BRP or dealer mistake. Now I have to wait till the new part comes in, make an appointment and go back. I feel this was an unnecessary and easily correctable issue on both BRP and my dealer. They know as my dealer indicated this is a problem so the dealerships should have at least one sprocket in stock ready to go......but they do not.
Guess you get to add yourself to the negligible number of Spyders suffering from this over hyped failure.
CJ JAX
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